I may be new here....

However, I am really tired of hearing about the "do-nothing" congress.
Pelosi benching impeachment, Dems "caving" etc. First and foremost, many of you are long time democrats. So, let me get this straight, those bashing our own in congress, after years of being democrats are willing to jump ship and criticize after 7 months?
First of all, this administration has broken so many things that it is next to impossible to fix them all.
Most important the fact is that we DO NOT have the numbers. It takes 60 votes to get a vote to the President's desk...only to have it VETOED. It then takes 67 to OVERRIDE a veto. Period.
You want better results? The time it takes to type out something negative about a particular congress member, Dem OR Repug, the time can be spent calling or emailing your REPUBLICAN congress man or woman to VOICE your opinion. Ultimately, it is your voice that will matter. Even the most conservative, senior members of congress will listen if thousands upon thousands emails and calls are received voicing your opinion on the war,impeachment...whatever.
With this administration's approval ratings in the toilet, that means there are a hell of a lot of Republicans who are not happy. WE can tip the scales here to put pressure on those who would not ordinarily vote with the Democrats.
So you see, the numbers are there really. The numbers lie with us. We DO have a voice...email and call today and everyday. It takes less than 5 minutes. Thank you. Now, off to work I go. Have a great day everyone.

So are the rest of us. But they keep doing nothing anyway.

I'm pretty sure our politics aren't aligned.

everyone and not just me. We all pay taxes and we all deserve to be represented. Compromise is a must. No small task, I know, but it can be done.

I would like schools completely funded, the defense budget cut, people put back to work by the government, health care for everyone, abortion legal and safe, the stupid drug war ended, etc. However, we have to be realistic and prioritize.

You seriously need to do more research. You don't happen to work for Carl Rove do ya?

Did they refuse to grant Bush even more power to eavesdrop on Americans?

Well then ... :eyes:

DU is special because we do act intelligently, which you'll pick up over time. But spirited debate is fun and tolerated.

For if you would do a little research you would find that the Dems could bring this war to a halt without having a single vote, or requiring a presidential signature. Here's how it goes.

Since the Dems have majority power, this means that they get to set the agenda for issues and bill in committee. Thus, they can hold up each and every single supplemental war funding bill indefinitely in committee, starving the beast and forcing the troops to come home. Voila! war ended.

However Pelosi and our Dem leaders took this option, along with impeachment, off the table before Congress was seated. Instead Congressional Dems insist that the best that they can do is send up meaningless resolutions and toothless bills that get shot down, followed by further spending bills allowing the war to continue.

This is the very definition of cowardice, showing the lack of a spine. They could bring this insanity to an end, but instead they choose to play politics with peoples' lives. Talk about obscene. What's even worse is that some of our Dem presidentiatl candidates openly call for troops to remain in Iraq if they get elected:puke:

Oh, and as far as writing my reps go, I've been doing that for decades. The trouble is that it has never done much good, and increasingly less so as time passes on.

So as you see, this whole vote numbers thing is a chimera, a smoke screen that the Dems have put up to cover their ass. They could end this war any time they chose, yet they are choosing not to. So yeah, I'm more than pissed. Congressional Dems are playing with the lives of innocents, all for political purposes.

read my email and then your response. Oh, and by the way, wear a helmut.

First, I live in an area that doesn't get Air America. Second, I have a dial up connection, so I can't get streaming over the Internet. Third, I don't feel like going through ten kinds of contortions to get a reply from some anonymous internet poster, I have better things to do. So either come out with it here in a debate forum, or realize that you will be dismissed by myself and others as not being terribly serious.

You essentially have a choice here and now, put up or shut up. It's up to you. Expecting us to go through contortions to hear out some newbie is a little much.

I love how the OP now wants me to go through ten kinds of contortions in order to get some sort of response. I suppose if he/she can't argue on the basis of logic or merit, he/she will try to baffle with bullshit.

It's a new tactic - "gumming their way to peace."

already!!

See, I think most people would view that as starving the ARMY, not the BEAST. And honestly, are you SURE that pulling the plug immediately is the right way to go? Stupid question...of course you are SURE. You know for SURE exactly how to handle it and you know for SURE exactly how it will work out and you know for SURE that our congress members are BAD. Instead of thinking, gee, maybe they might not be losers, you think you have the answers. And what do you do for a living again??

Oddly enough, that is one of the problems I always have with Repukes. They know what they know for SURE.

Then it's BUSH who has to be the bad guy, and veto it, cause he doesn't want to stop funneling money to his war profiteerin buddies.

This is a good idea. But you still have to have the votes to get the bill in front of Bush to force him to veto it. People can bleat all they want about 'needing the votes' being a chimera. And that's all it is...bleating. There is a REALITY to politics which may not feel good when it rubs up against our sensibilities. But ignoring it does not make it go away. Sometimes you have to actually work the system you have before you can change it.

don't support de-funding the war... DO support deadlines.

So... let's set the deadlines... and let BUSH do the de-funding, with his temper tantrum. :7

before the deadlines have teeth. I also think it sucks that more Iraqis and more American troops have to die while Washington does this sick, repulsive political dance. But the more I think about it, the more I think that it does have to go this way. We need more Republicans on our side. Sounds creepy, eh? I do think that when they get the support, the Dem leadership will try to force deadlines on Bush. It is going to take the Republicans LISTENING to what the people back home are telling them before they are going to cross over.

we HAVE the votes in the house... all we need to worry about is the senate... and there are enough toss ups in the senate to get those cowards to vote against bush, and set the deadlines their constituents want.

Well... that's the case for now... who knows what might happen that might galvanize repukes behind this stupid occupation again... that old saying 'strike while the iron is hot' comes into play. We might be missing an opportunity here.

But there is no point in putting something on the floor until they KNOW it is going to get past the Senate. I think in the end, if enough Repukes don't come around, they will put deadlines up for a vote and force them to vote against them. But for now they are trying to get enough support that it will make it all the way to Bush.

:bounce:

Let the people know the dems are fighting for what the people want... and put the pukes on notice that they better break with bush or face the elections as bush enablers! :7

I doubt that the troops would be starving, or unable to come home, or any of the other scare tactics that the 'Pugs try to frighten weak minds with. What I'm speaking of is the supplemental war funding bills, you know, the ones that keep the war going.

Frankly I'm only sure about one thing, the direction that the Dems are going in regards to this war is absolutely the wrong one. How is an ongoing presence in Iraq going to accomplish anything other than more destruction and death?

Oh, and just for your own edification, it seems that more people tend to agree with my POV than are against it<http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/030107_Bush_Iraq_Iran_web.pdf> Note, this is a Fox poll, so the actual numbers are probably skewed against defunding by a few points to begin with.

Hey, if you've got any other bright ideas, I'm willing to listen. But so far the Dem's record of sending up meaningless resolutions and bills only to have them vetoed is not inspiring. And do you really want to consign thousands more people to death and destruction while the Dems sit on their ass waiting for a super majority, or the White House, or whatever. This is a perfectly valid way of bringing the troops home ASAP, and sparing those thousands of lives. What's wrong with that?

if we could tip the scales to get the democrats to vote with the democrats. Every single piece of legislation passed in this Congress has had the support of democrats...What does that mean? How come it is so easy for me to find numerous accounts of wrong-doing carried out by the U.S. government, but Congress is oblivious? Why is the benchmark the Iraqi government must meet in order to see troop withdrawal, the one dealing with the oil law? I have tried hard and long to not see what is in plain sight, but the myth of democracy has been shattered by reality. "We the people"...a government 'by, for, and of the people" does not refer to the masses, it refers to the chosen few. I refuse to spend any more time being confused trying to make sense out of the incessant lies, and illogical reasons for acceptance of criminal acts. So yes, I too am tired of hearing about the 'do nothing Congress'. In my view they've done plenty. At this point, I would prefer if they all went home and stayed there.

particularly when it comes to impeachment . . . the Constitution does NOT say that the Congress shall impeach for "high crimes and misdemeanors" ONLY if the votes are there! . . . impeachment is intended to stop executive excess and bring to light the crimes of office-holders . . . you impeach FIRST, then you get and present the evidence . . . given the massive amount of evidence against Bush/Cheney, by the time the particulars are read in the Senate, any senator voting not to impeach will be taking his or her political life in their hands . . .

I don't care if we have the votes, and neither should anyone else . . . this administration is a crime syndicate unlike any other in recent or distant memory . . . they have started wars illegally, killed or maimed millions, destroyed a sovereign nation, allowed the death of a major American city, illegally spied on American citizens, imprisoned people at their whim, institutionalized torture as a standard operating procedure, ransacked the U.S. Treasury for personal and corporate gain, put the country into debt that we will never recover from, revealed the identity of CIA operatives for political purposes, stolen elections, failed to fully investigate the greatest attack on the U.S. since Pearl Harbor, allowed the almost total deregulation of corporations and the consequent devastation of the environment, brought the economy close to collapse, decimated our armed services, permitted the establishment of mercenary armies both in Iraq and here at home - - - and on, and on, and on . . .

by NOT impeaching, the Congress is itself committing a crime of historic proportions while enabling BushCo to continue running roughshod over international law, U.S. law, and the citizenry of the United States . . . by failing to stop them, the Congress are co-conspirators who are neglecting their Constitutional responsibilities and who will one day be held accountable right along with Bush, Cheney, and their cohorts . . .

"we don't have the votes" is nothing but a cowardly cop-out . . . and a damned dangerous one at that . . .

Doing nothing ends the war. It's passing the damn funding bills that is killing us.

We Don't Have The Numbers
:freak:
:nuke:

Bravo!!

on Randi Rhodes?

She also brought up the Jim Webb amendment which would in effect draw down troops without cutting off funding. There are only so many troops to deploy.

< signaling concern with the continuing erratic deployment schedules, the amendment requires the Pentagon to give active-duty troops at least as much time at home as they spent on deployments, and mandates that National Guard and Reserve members get to stay home for three years following their one-year deployments.

Active-duty Army soldiers currently serve up to 15 months in Iraq or Afghanistan, with a 12-month home stay. National Guard and Reserve units can serve longer terms, which have placed significant strain on their supplies and readiness at home. In addition, the White House surge strategy in Iraq has increased demand for military personnel.>

http://thehill.com/business--lobby/webbs-deployment-amendment-will-open-debate-on-defense-bill-2007-07-03.html

If the bill passes with the amendment and Bush vetoes it, then HE is not supporting the troops, as well as all the republicans who vote against it.

He was Secretary of the Navy and he knows what he's doing. Hopefully he can convince others to back the amendment. He also has a son in Iraq.

and then common sense takes over. Unfortunately the emotions too often override reason!

Yes, like pouring BILLIONS into a DEATH MACHINE that is the Military Industrial Complex for Bombs, guns and bullets. Oh that's truly sane! :eyes:

Oh well, I guess people will hear what they want to hear.

It seems to me like some people around here just stop with being PASSIONATE. Forget reason, forget reality. It is all about the PASSION. The more angst they can feel and, of course, EXPRESS and the more breast beating they can do, the happier they are. Or the sadder and angrier. But then, they seem so happy to be sad and angry, it is hard to tell the difference.

No workable solutions...no viable options. Just wailing and moaning.


Ick.

but I'm old enough to know that emotions are valuable, but without reason they lead to failure, which leads to even more emotions unresolved. This isn't some abstract idea. It is born of experience and awareness of history.

I remember the sixties. I remember the successes and the failures. I also know that Watergate was not the result of passion alone. There were investigations and endless hearings before Nixon was brought down. In the end, the rule of law prevailed, but not without diligence and perseverance.

We need BOTH our passion and our reason.

I am tired now. And honestly, emotional wasn't getting anybody anywhere. I still want the same things I used to want, but now I am less 'emotional' about it. Since I have managed to dial down the drama, I have actually been able to have a dialogue with some Republicans I know. I still disagree with them to a large extent, but now that I don't wig out on them, they are LISTENING to me. I have actually made some headway in getting them to change their minds on some issues. All my excess emotion did was obscure any message I might be trying to send.

When I was in HS, I was on the debate team and I had a very good instructor. My major fault was when I interjected my emotions into an otherwise credible position. I learned that when I become too emotional in any debate, people hear the "emotions", not the words and they respond with more emotions. It all spirals downhill after that.

I really care about the issues and as a result I am willing to clear my head and look for viable solutions.

:eyes:

You'd think there were no debates and no hearings and no evidence to be presented, just a declaration of impeachment and immediate vote.

Let's step back and get some perspective here.

she didn't even include ending the war on her first 100 hour agenda.

Then the Dems voted to fund the war and they gave the worst president ever FISA.

I am just beyond pissed off. I want representation, not excuses about numbers.

:hi:

you might have a point. When too many so-called leaders enabled the enemy for the last 7 YEARS, and were given a clear mandate by the public 10 months ago to take action, Democrats have good reason to be pissed, and to say so.