Ranking the speeches in the Steak Fry

Here they are:
1a) John Edwards- Very passionate and tough. This speech should help him solidify his status in Iowa.

1b) Barack Obama- He rocked the house with his hope message and even brought Richardson and Clinton to their feet. Lot's of supporters rooting for him.

2a) Hillary Clinton- Passionate speech that fired up her crowd; she's got a lot of support. However, compared with the strong performances by the other two top tier candidates, her speech was a bit flat. Still, deserves to be tied in second place with Richardson, mostly because her crowd was pumped.

2b) Bill Richardson- Best public showing I've seen of him so far. Excellent speech. He fired up the crowd even though he was competing with Obama's strong performance just before him. Too bad he didn't have a lot of supporters among the crowd.

3) Joe Biden- Honest. To the point. However, it was anti-climatic. The crowd was pumped up after 4 solid performances and then Joe talks about the hard truths. Good, but anti-climatic.

4) Chris Dodd- His voice was not 100% today and he was... I don't know. Maybe he knows he's not going to win. He had little support from the crowd.

of rallying the crowd.

Richardson had his usual laundry list of pandering. Did he really say Stem Cell Research! Autism!

Sure it was all pander - he was at a rally - he was supposed to fire up the crowd.

Great speech for Edwards, and I was also impressed with Richardson. Even Biden was soft yet straight to the point and pretty moving. Dodd just didn't do it for me at all. Obama, as always rocked the house..but Edwards may have just squeezed past him for the top spot. Both were awesome in any case.

Every voice should be heard...

And Dennis is polling twice as high as Biden, Richardson, and Dodd in some polls...

eom

I would sure like to know who made that decision. I'm thoroughly disgusted.

"Representatives of both events have falsely claimed that Kucinich does not have a sufficiently "active organization" in Iowa."

Kucinich has set up a headquarters in Nevada, has campaigned in Florida and in Hawaii - yet has no HQ, no staff not even a volunteer to contact here in Iowa.

Or did all the Kucinich votes go to Edwards?

Which gave him 1% of the vote and I thinkg 39 delegates to different county conventions.

http://desmoinesregister.com/extras/politics/caucus2004/countyresults.html

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/states/IA/

so fucking what. He's ahead of or tied with three of the lot that got to go.

I guess that's so what. Polls mean nothing right now - ask the three front-runners from August 2003 (Lieberman/Gephardt/Dean).

Kucinich is a known entity in Iowa, there is still ample time, for him to make additional visits, plus he already ahead of several of his competitors, who despite their "activity" don't seem to being doing even as well as the invisible Kucinich. The choice to exclude him on these grounds was nit-pickingly petty, IMO.

person in Iowa how can we be positive?

http://gallery.cloudview.com/gallery/23633#808116

I think Tom Harkin has Dennis' phone number.

And he didn't spend a whole bunch of money here - he had volunteers do the organizational work from phones and offices local Democrats let the campaign use (like our office and phones) BUT he had a central headquarters and contact person. The only campaign contact listed is in Ohio - that is until he gets his Nevada HQ up and running.

and a real slap in the face to a good 10% of the party. It just wasn't necessary. Let them get up there and say whatever they want. If you can't handle criticism from Kucinich and Gravel, then you're not going to handle it in the GE. I also think it helps people to see the sharp line in the party, that not every Democrat means single payer when they say universal health care, for instance. That's a positive to the majority of the country, and many right leaners don't even know the difference is there.

running for President should have been invited to speak at the Tom Harkin Steak Fry (not a Democratic Party sponsored event but a fund raiser for an Iowa Senator)? Well then where were....Dal LaMagna,
Albert B. Howard, James Prattas and Danny M. Francis? All proclaimed Democrats running for President. Shouldn't you be championing their cause as well?

The only reason to exclude them at this point is because you don't want to hear the further left view. It's obvious. It has nothing to do with Iowa, it has to do with party politics.

as long as he follows the rules.

I'm offended by these attacks because four years ago we opened our office and phone lines to the Kucinich campaign to use - attended Kucinich events and are still friends with Kucinich supporters. But we are being called names because HE DIDN'T FOLLOW THE RULES.

Open a campaign office in Iowa and get serious about running for president - OR - take the contributions your supporters are sending you and take your wife on a year-long honeymoon to Florida, California and Nevada. Seems that he's playing his supporters for fools while creating a smoke screen to cover his tracks.

I'm not personally blaming the Iowa Democrats. I am suspecting the pressure came from the candidates themselves, or some of them, not Iowans.

other candidates. It's just a bunch of smoke and mirrors from one campaign. I didn't hear Kucinich advocating for Gravel for not being invited to the AFL-CIO forum (Gravel didn't fill out the required Labor Questionnaire and was barred from attendance) - and I don't see Gravel complaining that he didn't get invited because he didn't do what was required to attend.

There was that snip with Edwards and Clinton talking about how bad the debate formats were and reducing the number of participants, something about Kucinich and Gravel not being serious. I think at some point Obama may have agreed to smaller debate formats, which would effectively exclude Kucinich and Gravel. That's why I say I think it was a party operation, from way up, not Iowans.

that weren't DNC debates (which is why he won't be at the AARP forum in Davenport, Iowa either).

As far as Clinton/Edwards comments - they don't get to choose who is at Democratic Party sponsored events - Kucinich and Gravel were both at the debate here in Iowa in August.

There just is not a conspiracy - except for the one created by Dennis Kucinich to get his supporters to flood the internet with the 'Dennis is being robbed' meme. If I had given $$ to Kucinich and found out that he didn't even make an effort to garner support in Iowa, but chose to fly off to Hawaii instead I'd be pissed. That's where your anger should be directed.

and the Oregon Democratic Party didn't work overtime to find every legal method to keep Nader off the ballot either. Nah, politics doesn't work that way. Okeedoke.

You put on a helluva primary though, I love watching you guys grill the candidates. :hi:

in Iowa - that is the comparison you mean isn't it?

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0720-15.htm

<snip>

In Oregon, another swing state where Nader could tip the election to Bush, he only needed to attract 1,000 registered voters to a nominating convention to get on the ballot. Four years ago, 10,000 activists rallied for Nader in Portland. But in April, he couldn't rally even 1,000 supporters.

Once again, the Right rode to the rescue. When Nader made a second attempt at a convention on June 26, Oregon's Republicans enlisted the anti-choice, anti-gay Oregon Family Council and the corporatist Citizens for a Sound Economy to recruit rightwingers to attend and sign Nader's petition. The CSE's phone script asking Republicans to put Nader on the ballot explained the need to "pull some very crucial votes from John Kerry." Nader's Oregon coordinator said he saw nothing wrong with rightwing help: "It's a free country. People do things in their own interest."

With Democrats engaging in dirty tricks of their own in Oregon (a county leader urged Dems in an email to attend but refuse to sign), Nader again fell short of the needed 1,000 -- despite the Republican help. Nader's campaign hasn't submitted names from the second convention to state officials, apparently embarrassed at how many will be shown to be registered Republicans.

Citizens for a Sound Economy is a lavishly-funded corporate front group, chaired by former top Republican leader Dick Armey, that lobbies against virtually everything Nader has ever lobbied for. Asked by CNN why such a group would back him, Nader dissembled in the extreme, referring to it as a group "opposed to Congressional pay raises" (perhaps the one issue out of a thousand that Nader and CSE have in common) -- as honest as identifying Pat Buchanan as a Palestinian rights advocate.

<snip>

All his supporters had to do was ask and he would have had use of our office and our phones AGAIN this cycle - instead he has chosen to set up a headquarters in Nevada (scheduled to go third in the process and with 33 delegates to be awarded compared to Iowa's 57) which seems to be a strange decision.

Until we have public funding for elections it takes SOME money to run for office - in Iowa it's pretty inexpensive. But I guess Kucinich found it less expensive to fly to Hawaii and Florida than to pay four months rent and for a phone line.

I am going contact the campaign.

If the campaign wanted to used volunteers - they'd have the numbers of those who helped him in 2003. I'm not about to broadcast my personal information all over DU. Believe me, those who support Kucinich where I live KNOW our office is available. We haven't moved. (and he knows we are still active - he's seen us at the Labor event in Cedar Rapids and at the debates in Des Moines).

you want want the Kucinich campaign in, but you don't want advertised.

Why did you make the offer?

and the Kucinich campaign found it easy enough in 2003 without our advertising it. I'm not about to post personal information on an internet board.

This is why they created the caucus in the first place! To have politicians, and the media entourage, spend money in hotels, restaurants, radio and TV for months. They don't care about the rest of America! All the care about is the cash flowing into their pockets for over a year.

We use the caucuses to organize our party - electing not only delegates to the county conventions but establish chairs for the convention activities - as well as begin the process of creating our state central committee ballot for the upcoming state convention. We establish precinct captain members and local central committee members for upcoming general election (as well as poll workers for the elections). Iowa has 99 counties and almost 2,000 precincts -that's a heck of a lot of organizing to do and that's what we do at caucus - choosing our presidential preference is only one small part of the caucus process.

... have to be careful to have an objective criterion, and the criterion they all seem to use is having previously been elected to high office. So governor, senator, congressmen, and former of the same all get in on that criterion no matter what.

The Steak Fry is based on having an Iowa campaign organization, and all Democratic candidates that do seemed to have gotten an invite.

No matter what the cut-off is, those who do not make that cut-off will always argue for a different cut-off that lets them in.

not just a complaint that the rules should not apply to one certain candidate.

informed of this criteria in advance?

Too bad. Really, really too damn bad. I was really dissapointed that he wasn't. I can only assume they didn't want to hear about peace and health care for all. Just sayin.

Neither Gravel or Kucinich have field offices in Iowa, and that was a prerequisite for an invite.

I missed them too, as they brought a lot to the Yearly Kos Presidential Panel.

Harkin has the right to set the rules. It's just not that expensive to have an office/contact person in Iowa.

People paid $30 for a steak dinner and see candidates that are serious about their caucuses.

but that IS what was said. Why they don't have field offices is something I know nothing about.

http://www.dennis4president.com/go/newsroom/iowa-democratic-leaders-trying-to-%22rig-the-game%22/">Why Kucinich Wasn't at the Steak Fry and Why He Won't Be at the AARP Forum This Thursday

Corporate powered Democrats are making sure that a progressive like Kucinich doesn't succeed. With the media working for them and the DNC leadership doing all the right things, Democrats have nothing to worry about. The only thing they have to fear are the people who will fearlessly fight for Dennis. I hope they are ready. Because this Kucinich supporter is going to take them on fearlessly!

As James Ridgeway who has written for Mother Jones said, the Democrats are "the meanest bunch of motherf**kers he's ever come across." Yeah, and it shows when they won't allow a guy like Dennis to participate in presidential events.

of corporate controlled money hungry thugs and I resent it. Kucinich has decided to ignore Iowa and Iowans and now is complaining that he doesn't get a free ride to the Iowa Caucuses. He has only been to Iowa 6 times to campaign but he has found plenty of time (and money) to go to California 36 seperate times and Florida 14 times. Maybe if the weather was nicer here he'd spend more time here?

...with the price of oil in Iraq, the failure to end this war, the lack of health care for all in this country, the loss of jobs to China, and the neglect of our climate which had led to deadly climate change. No, it has everything to do with corporate Democrats like the leaders Iowans allow to lead them.

and campaign, Florida and campaign and Hawaii and campaign. But can't rent a one-room office in Des Moines, Iowa so his message gets to the people who will be participating in the first contest of this primary season.

And please quit insulting Iowans and our political leaders, you are embarrassing yourself.

All Americans need to wake up and see that they are the only ones who can save this country. The Democrats are keeping a guy who is fighting for the people down because he challenges the status quo and the corporate powers that be. The Democrats fear Kucinich. The media fears Kucinich so they black him out. Everyone hides behind "technicalities". In doing so, divides occur in the Democratic Party. You get people sticking up for Dennis and people who think the guys sticking up for Dennis are ridiculous. And that's not going to help us beat a Republican in the general election.

I want my next president to stick up for Americans and fight for reforms that seriously change this country. Kucinich is the only guy laying out policies that give me hope for a better future. The rest promise more of weakness in the Democratic Party...they promise more policies that cater to Republicans and make them look like Republicans. But Republicans are dogmatic people and have campaigns on belief. Democrats or progressives like Kucinich have policies. When Democrats become Republican, they kill their chances of winning before they even get rolling in their campaign.

Kucinich means something to Americans. He can't be bought or bossed. And I am going to and the rest of the people who support him are going to keep talking until this party gets the message.

The event was sponsored by Tom Harkin. Kucinich supporters seem to be long on outage and short on facts.

then they have the audacity to insist that they alone should always be first in the nation, in a rather bizarre caucus system that is easily manipulated by party hacks, as it was in 2004 when Iowa gave us a loser.

We pretty much control the political process in America. We just let you have primaries as a courtesy. Basically, you other states can just kiss our big Iowa piggy assess.

It's a little know fact that pretty much any political decision made in America has to go through a special panel of Iowans first. It's funny that states like Texas or California, with all of their delegates, actually believe they have a say in the election. HA! Don't make me laugh. We've got the whole thing decided before it even starts.

:spray:

To speak at this event each candidate is required to have an active campaign headquarters in the state of Iowa. Neither Kucinich nor Gravel had this set up. I'm not sure that's the exact wording, but something to that effect. Both Kucinich and Gravel knew about this requirement. If you watch a re-run at either 6:30 or 9:30 tonight I think you might get a better explanation than I'm giving you right now. But this is the basic explanation, but I think there's more to it.

They were not excluded by Harkin or the candidates though as they knew about these requirements. Why they didn't have anything set up is something I DON'T know. Regardless, both knew the rules.

about before the speeches. That's all I know, but it had nothing to do with being "excluded" by any of the other candidates. Perhaps someone else can explain it better than I.

I didn't get the impression that Kucinich or Gravel had a problem with it though. If someone else can explain it better, please do. I like what Kucinich has to say and think his ideas are great and he's a straight shooter so for me I'm not putting either one down.

are rigging the Iowa Caucuses by not allowing his attendance at the Harking Steak Fry and the AARP Forum - neither of which are run by the Iowa Democratic Party. Nice to know that there was a requirement of having a campaign office in the state - the press relase didn't mention that.

Does it really matter where your office is?

that hold the first contest. Even if he chose not to have a campaign hq in Iowa what's his explanation for not campaigning here? 6 times in Iowa vs 36 in CA? Iowa isn't very important to Kucinich.

When funds are limited, you sacrifice and set up a strategy that gets more bang for your buck. Sorry you're taking it personally that he's only been there six times... and it's HOW MANY months before the caucus?!

How'd you get his visit count, BTW?

Here's the link: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/tracker/candidates/dennis-kucinich/

In Iowa, it matters. It's retail politics. Grassroots efforts. Door-to-door. You organize out of an office. When it comes to galvanizing supporters and workers, you do that through meeting them at headquarters and leaving from there for canvassing, etc. It's crucial. You can't pump up your troops through text messages, email and fax machines. It's about people meeting with like-minded people and working together for a cause. Yes, an office to operate from is CRUCIAL in Iowa.

not talking strategy, here. it's a stupid rule, and a technicality created to shut DK and Gravel out of the event.

But, I would agree with you if it was something recently devised as a way to screen out candidates.

and is now outdated.

and Gravel and Kucinich were aware of it.

It wasn't created to keep them out of the event.

I turned it on just as Hillary started. Lucky me. :)

Otherwise, I agree with what you have there. Maybe I'm just sick of this endless drifting into the mire, I wasn't inspired by any that I heard today, except a bit of Edwards and his not in our America bit.

I may have ranked Dodd, Biden, Richardson and Clinton a little higher based on the substance in their speeches.

Sorry.

Even Richardson and Clinton, who stood up to applaud after Obama was done, would disagree, I think.

No way Obama did worse than Dodd or even Biden, and he was better than Clinton. I can even accept Richardson topping him, but no way he was the worst. It was an excellent speech.

I blame his "handlers". Sure, you're speaking to the choir, but give them some raw meat to chew on.

All I heard today was....hopeCHANGEhopehopehopeCHANGE. He didn't challenge me. I need to be challenged :hi:

you weren't at Yearly Kos, were you? Next year it will be Netroots Nation, be there!

evident that I'm an Edwards supporter, but for me he gave the best speech.

1) John Edwards

2) Joe Biden

3) Bill Richardson

I'm not particularly fond of Richardson, but think as far as content goes, these three were pretty concise. Joe Biden is very informed and I feel he's knowledgeable and sincere and I've become to respect him a great deal more as time goes by. Richardson does have experience, but I just can't warm up to him as I once did.

I think Hillary "generalized" a bit too much and came across a little too shrill to the point that I thought she was going to take her shoe off and pound the podium.

Obama gave a good speech but seemed to focus more on explaining why he considers himself experienced because I think he was answering the question that's been floated about his experience. A pretty good speech that highlighted issues, but not to the extent I feel my picks did. I really really like Chris Dodd and do think he actually is effective as a Senator, but he didn't do much for me today.

Inspires confidence and as I've said before, I would sleep well knowing Biden was in the White House. With that said, I'm still trying to decide between Edwards, Obama and Biden.

I actually started a "wtf" was that post, but decided it distracted from the spirit of the thread. I think she was trying to outmen the men again. I wish she would get it that she doesn't have to do that. I also thought I heard her co-opting Edwards' invisible people lines, and Obama's America is Back lines. I was less impressed with her from an objective candidate perspective today, regardless of what she had to say. Just weird.

2 and 3.....I saw something in Richardson I haven't seen before, fire, passion, substance and education.

I think Obama dropped lower on my rankings, to be fair, he went first. But, in this stage of the game, he should be punching up his stump speech with some meat and potatoes. This was the choir he was preaching too, they wanted to put their teeth into "something". Good pep rally bullhorn moment, which helped the others. His cry to stop funding the war will have more meaning if he votes earlier in the roll call. Better yet, works the Senate cloakroom for votes !

Hillary needs to work on her delivery. I grew up in an Irish-Italian family, I have a low tolerance for shrieking. As always, agree with her message, but lacks that fire in the belly Edwards has. Sidebar to the netroots coverage: Wes Clark was liveblogging "why he endorses Hillary" on his website....during the live coverage of her Steak Fry speech on Cspan :shrug: Whoa....what was that about? But appreciate he needed to do damage control with his supporters...still...BAD timing.

:hi:

he would be a good pick for VP, however having seen him several times after debates, etc. (working the crowd) he seems a little "dark" to me. I know he has done well for NM, my sister lives there and I know he's very well rounded and can close a deal. He's good at politics and obviously effective. I don't want to re-hash some negative crap about his work during the Clinton Administration because it seems petty, but as I said I'm not that fond of him anymore.

Maybe I'm just getting a tad too critical about some things here and there. I have heard he's a glad-hander, but aren't all politicians to some extent? He's pretty DLC too, but as I said... effective. And for sure, Biden stated the obvious when he started to speak, but I do agree with what he had to say. I could be persuaded to switch my 2 & 3, Richardson can deliver and he DID well today.

Upon reflection, maybe what I HEARD from Biden swayed me more as opposed to how well he did. I think I just rambled on and around this whole issue, ya think??

Gotta shut down my PC right now, I hear lots of thunder and need to disconnect! Maybe if I WISH hard enough we'll get some RAIN out of it. We've had so little of it here all summer, and this is FLORIDA!!!! My last PC got zapped by lightening, even with TWO surge protectors!

:crazy:

We still have 3 and a half months. You stay safe, and send some rain my way :hi:

though my fuzzy feeling for him isn't there, I'm gonna be a "flip-flopper" here. Richardson actually DID cover many more bases than Biden. I especially was struck by his references to education! As a Boomer there are two things that have been lacking in our schools these days... Civics and Physical Ed. I know they teach Government now, but I'm not sure what it means exactly, but Civics was one of the requirements when I was going to school. And Physical Education is something I think would go a long to prevent obesity at a younger age. He said that he removed all the junk food in schools as Governor and I find this to be a positive idea. I see far too many over-weight kids today and even though some will always be prone to be heavy, I do think the Phys. Ed. is a good thing. The "normal" family today basically will have both parents working and kids come home to empty houses and many times prepare their own dinner from the frozen/packaged foods in the freezer!

I have two grand kids of my own and know it happens with them. They LOVE coming to my house for a home cooked meal. For the most part I try to cook "healthy" and I still weigh the same as I did when I graduated from high school. Anyway... got off the subject, but Richardson did speak of some of those things plus ending the war.

BTW, we DID get some rain!! I almost opened up all my windows and doors just to smell it! While parts of my area have had rain, where I live you could walk up the street and see rain and walk back to my house and there would be none. It has something to do with the Intra-coastal Waterway & the Gulf, so if the clouds come from the east more likely than not it won't rain here. Plus Florida has had a very very dry spring & summer, I've actually marked my calendar each time it rained and for how long! Not many marks on my calendar, but today it was almost and hour!! I worry about animals a lot and feed many of them, but daily there are herons and egrets in my yard and they want meat and I used to buy chicken necks for them. But my husband got upset because they always seem to leave some hefty droppings on all the cars around here. I got banned! Just a little side bar of humor here!

:toast: :hug:

him over Richardson, just saying. But it's JOHNNY FIRST!

Outta here again... time to walk the dog!

Don't know what it looked like on c-span but I was surrounded by Obama people who looked awed by Edwards. Obama fine but rambled. Richardson pandered unbelievably and often incoherent. Clinton fine but screamed the whole speech. Dodd content was good but he looked sick. Edwards was powerful, passionate and presidential. Biden angling for Secretary of State - again.

Ok, I know you're not from Iowa. But I'm still angry about being among the 48 ignored states. You know, the *rest of the country* might like a chance to get up close and personal with the candidates too.

I dare say you might NOT like living in my state and especially MY county! I know this state is "important" politically, but it SUCKS!

You mean the height of human happiness isn't being able to see and hear politicians spin you over and over again for the better part of a year?

Thanks for the insight (really).

Looks like the Dems are doing just fine in Iowa gathering support and testing the candidates on their field work.

I'm in Virginia, I'm not fussed at all, but I can still send my favorite candidate a donation so s/he can keep on keeping on!

Thank you Iowa!

There's only one Democratic candidate that speaks and acts Presidential to me, and that's Joe Biden. Behind every word there's intelligence, candor, and well thought out reasoning. Nothing says President more than that.

He does not give a rehearsed answer when people question him on
a number of issues.

With Biden it isn't just talking points and promises, it's an intelligent discussion on
many topics. And if he doesn't know - he's not afraid to tell you either.

They all rank below the belt, since not all candidates were included.

Obama and Richardson did the best when it came to getting the crowd involved.
Reminded me of being at a concert - "Hey, how's everybody doing tonite? Are you having fun yet?" :)

:hi: