Clinton showed leadership today, where was Obama?

I wonder if this is the reason his numbers are where they are



If he wants to be a leader he should act like one, I've heard that the reason he did not vote on the Cornyn amendment condemning the MoveOn.org today was because he had more important fund raising to do.

Symbolism is important and he is not symbolizing courage.



edited to add link- http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/charts/2008_election_primaries/democratic_primaries_chart.html

..... but he didn't.

Lying us into a war and keeping up the lies like General P. did is
an act of betrayal to America.

This cheapshot bullshit against Obama is below DU.

just as Obama deserves heat for failing to vote.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security."

-- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002



I know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors... I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.

-- Barack Obama, October 26, 2002

I was talking about General Petraous and his lies.

such as we have found mobile weapons labs

the surge is working

************************

a lie is a lie is a lie.


in 2002 i was 17 years old. and i knew that the drumbeat to war with Iraq was a bunch of BS. i knew that Saddam didn't have any weapons. i knew that he had nothing to do with 9/11 or al-Qaeda. i knew that any war in the middle east would be a fucking disaster.

yet supposedly brilliant politicians with access to far more information than me couldn't see the obvious?

i haven't decided on a candidate yet (though i did use that obama quote), but I do know that anybody stupid enough to vote in favor of or ever support this stupid fucking war is not fit to lead this country.

make somebody upset whichever way he voted. He slinked away instead of taking the heat.

"The focus of the United States Senate should be on ending this war, not on criticizing newspaper advertisements," Obama says. "This amendment was a stunt designed only to score cheap political points while what we should be doing is focusing on the deadly serious challenge we face in Iraq. It's precisely this kind of political game-playing that makes most Americans cynical about Washington's ability to solve America's problems. By not casting a vote, I registered my protest against this empty politics. I registered my views on the ad itself the day it appeared.

Obama goes on to say, "All of us respect the service of General Petraeus and all of our brave men and women in uniform. The way to honor that service is to give them a mission that is responsible, not to vote on amendments like the Cornyn amendment while we continue to pursue the wrong policy in Iraq."

Can't keep up without a score card.

In fact, Boxer's amendment did mention the MoveOn.org advertisement, calling it an "an unwarranted personal attack on General Petraeus." Moreover, in describing the amendments as "extremely similar," the Times did not report that, while Cornyn's amendment singled out the MoveOn.org ad, Boxer's amendment also cited Republican-backed attacks against Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) and former Sen. Max Cleland (D-GA) in condemning "all attacks on the honor, integrity, and patriotism of any individual who is serving or has served honorably" in the military. http://mediamatters.org/items/200709210010


Here is some of the wording in her amendment- (pdf form)

http://mediamatters.org/rd?http://frwebgate.access.gpo....
(6) On September 10, 2007, an advertisement in the New York Times was an unwarranted personal attack on General Petraeus; who is honorably leading our Armed Forces in Iraq and carrying out the mission assigned to him by the President of the United States; and

(7) Such personal attacks on those with distinguished military service to our nation have become all too frequent.

...2) to strongly condemn all attacks on the honor, integrity, and patriotism of any individual who is serving or has served honorably in the United States Armed Forces, by any person or organization.

How he voted-

Obama (D-IL), Yea
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/r...



His statement was disingenuous.

If he refused to vote because he didn't want to make enemies on either side, then he showed a lack of courage, though certainly the amendment was a meaningless trap, so I'm not going to condemn him for it.

If he refused to vote because he believed the amendment shouldn't have even been raised, that's a statement, and it's a wash.

I haven't heard yet.

is like buying somebody a 12 pack and then criticizing them for being drunk

(i said it on another thread but it bears repeating here)

i'm not an obama backer so that's not where this is coming from....but if I was in the Senate, I would've called this thing what it is and refused to vote on it. THAT would've been real leadership, and that's something that nobody did.

Its that the resolution came to the floor in the 1st place and that far too many Democrats voted for it.

Petraeus...Betray Us...get it? High five.

The ad certainly rubbed a great deal of people the wrong way though I happen think the reaction has been blown out of proportion.

MoveOn actions and their appropriateness are something for the public to decide.

Not for Congress to go out of its way to condemn an organization using their free speech rights in dissent of the present administration.

I don't care if MoveON made it easy or whatever. What happened was wrong.

later followed the American people until it was safe to come out of the woods and finally turn against the war after several years?? Sounds like overcautious, calculated planning to me.

There are um teen million other threads about that here on DU, and guess what she's still in the lead. Wheres Obama. Your deflection as usual was a miserable failure.

Anything that could damage his politically he voted "present" on.

... "Clinton showed leadership today."

If he was there, I would like to know why he didn't vote.

Even though this amendment is stupid, if you're there, you might as well vote against it.

But, I did find out that Obama left before the vote because he has a rally in Atlanta tonight.

Knowing this now, I don't have a problem with him missing this vote since the amendment was nonsense anyway.

Anyone who is unable to handle other viewpoints and can only deal with them by blocking them out of their world is ..... ....
I'm trying to think of something civil to use to fill in the blanks....
....
..



Not working

I have my reasons for putting some people on ignore, like when the same members use inflammatory language when talking about Democrats.

Apparently I wasn't talking about you since I responded to your fucking thread.

Can't you fucking read? I said I couldn't tell who responded to me. Did you respond to me? NO! So I wasn't talking about you!!

Once again you use selective reading and totally ignore that your little rant was off the mark.

But I'll go ahead and honor your original request because I'm having a bad day and I'm tired.

As evidenced by their health care plans.

Voting no to an idiotic, non-binding, slap bill is NOT leadership... it is an excercise in stupidity.

at the committee , the guy who helped fund the swift boat vets. of course most here ignored it or don't care because they like to be led around by right wingers.

that's a valid response.

Why one and not the other?

Looks opportunistic.

He voted on the Boxer amendment because that one railed against the Swiftboaters.....

I think he made an excellent choice, personally.

that if you're going to start condemning ads in Congress at all, then you should condemn all similar ads.

The Boxer amendment would never have been put up before Congress, if it weren't for the original bill about the MoveOn.org ad.

Obama made the correct move in not dignifying the Moveon.org bill with a vote. It was improper for that bill to be in Congress in the first place.