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I think HRC is getting "comfortable in her own skin."

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:32 PM
Original message
I think HRC is getting "comfortable in her own skin."
She seems relaxed and she's letting the real Hillary out, more and more. I loved her remark about Cheney as Darth Vader.

She's a formidable woman.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. The real Hillary wants more jobs shipped to her campaign donors' buisnesses in India. (nt)
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Oh, yeah, right.
:sarcasm:
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. She supports increasing the cap on h1- b visas
Edited on Sun Sep-23-07 04:37 PM by antigop
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
6.  That program doesn't ship any jobs to India.
I'm not thrilled with the idea of increasing the VISA cap, but it has nothing to do with shipping jobs off-shore.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Directly, that program undercuts wages and reduces jobs in America for trained Americans.
Indirectly, that particular program ships jobs overseas, in the long run, by training competitors who move back to India.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. If you're worried about training competitors, then we should be kicking
all the foreign students out of our universities. Is that something you support, too?
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. It figures that Hillary supporters would support that program by exaggerating and muddying pro-labor
positions.

No, we should not be kicking any foreign students out of U.S. universities. You're comparing apples and oranges.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Foreign students in U.S. universities go back to their own countries,
where they then can compete with our workers.

How is this different from your argument that foreign workers who train here will go back to their own countries and compete with us?

And I'm not committed to Hillary. I like several of the candidates right now, and I'll support whoever is the nominee in the general.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Foreign students *pay* to learn here. Foreign workers get *paid* to train here.
Edited on Sun Sep-23-07 07:49 PM by w4rma
Foreign students create jobs for teachers.
Foreign work visas take jobs from (and undercut wages of) trained workers.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You're wrong. Foreign grad students, like US students, often get paid by their universities
Edited on Sun Sep-23-07 10:12 PM by pnwmom
as teaching and research assistants, and can have their tuition waived also.

Most engineering departments, for example, have high numbers of foreign grad students teaching undergraduate classes.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. You're nitpicking now.
Edited on Sun Sep-23-07 10:56 PM by w4rma
Besides, that will happen more and more as less and less Americans see any advantage to getting a degree in subjects that are being outsourced and work visaed.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #31
42. I'm not nitpicking. I'm correcting your misunderstanding.
Graduate students in technical fields work in universities, and are paid for their work.

Just as foreign workers on other VISA's are paid for their work.

And both categories of workers are free to return to their home countries and compete with Americans. So if you object to the one group on that basis, you should be objecting to both.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. No. (nt)
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dugggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. I was a foreign student in a US university and they paid my
tution 100%! I was awarded one of the tution scholarships
reserved only for foreign students. My grades had something
to do with it.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Congratulations, dugggy.
My American husband also had a free ride through a top U.S. grad school -- well, not free really, since he was always working as a research or teaching assistant. If he had been working in industry instead for those years he would have been making more money.
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dugggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. You can't keep low skilled jobs making high wages in US
Those kind of jobs belong in India. That way we can afford
more services at a cheaper price. That benefits the consumer,
which is the biggest majority party in the country.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. China gets the low skilled jobs. India is getting the high skilled jobs.
Although, China is starting to undercut India in wages, now, on high-skilled jobs, also.
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dugggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. That is how it should be....
whoever can produce goods or services at the lowest cost
deserves to get it. That benefits the CONSUMER (100% of
population).

India is getting a lot of computer programming, telephone
support and medical services jobs. All require small training
periods. Hardly high tech. I should know, I worked in the
computer programming field for many decades.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. It doesn't benefit the consumer in the long run because most consumers work.
And anything that reduces disposable income for workers also reduces disposable income for consumers.

This outsourcing only benefits the wealthy who have seen their profit margins increase.
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm not a fan, but you're right
Formidable. I watched Russert giving her the business. She never broke a sweat. I want to see him go after Gooliani the same way.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I missed her with Russert, but wish I could have seen that.
She hasn't been my top candidate, but I'll have no problem supporting her if that's what it comes to.

And it's becoming easier to say that as time goes on.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The video has been posted at DU.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Thanks a lot. Was that the whole interview? n/t
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I don't know if that is the entire interview. I watched her on tv this am
and not on the video
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
35. Go to MSNBC's MEET THE PRESS website. You can watch it online. I did.
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kstewart33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. I haven't been a fan, but I'm turning her way.
She's exceptionally sharp, experienced, and works like a dog.

FWIW, my prediction is that Iowa will turn her way in the closing weeks before the primary and other early states will follow.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I'm warming to her, too.
Whoever is the nominee, I think we're going to be in a very strong position in the general. The Rethug field is uniformly weak, compared to any of our top candidates. Compared to any of our candidates, period.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. I watched her on every Sunday show. She really was superb
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. Didn't She Support The Move-On Ad When It Came Out???
This morning she said she was not in favor of the ad. She danced around quite a few questions over all. I won't be voting for her, and that's what it's come down to for me.

In the end, I seriously doubt what I say really matters anyway, all the lists we see of her corporate supporters says it all to me. I think she's tapped in and unless reality sets in, we are going to have her served up to us on a silver platter!

Then, it's all over for me... I don't think we'll see much difference made in America, but I also seriously think the Repukes can't wait for her to be the nominee!

This country doesn't really represent "We The People" anymore, and our leaders in Congress don't seem to care very much either. There are "some" who want to help this country, but by and large... Democrats don't seem to be able to gather together enough for REAL UNITY!
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ElizabethDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. She has never said she supported the ad, no. n/t
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. She voted against the resolution to condemn the ad.
That's good enough for me. Biden and Obama abstained, by the way.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. You seriously don't think there's much difference?
You sound like Nader, who said there wouldn't be much difference between Gore and Bush -- Tweedledee and Tweedledum, he called them.

The "dum" ones were the ones who believed Nader's lies and voted for him.

Since then we have the Bush war on Iraq -- which the Dems never would have started -- the destruction of the environment, the shredding of the Constitution, the disastrous response to Katrina, and on and on and on.

But people are still saying there's not much difference. Amazing.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Not Big On Nader... I LIVE In Florida! The LAST THREE Elections
I voted in screwed me! I live in District 13... gave up on trying to get THAT ONE finalized! Vern Buchanan is in D.C. so I find it hard to see how "we the people" matter!

Now I see how MSM is handing Hillary to me... Sorry... I'm just too JADED and CYNICAL anymore!

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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. they say snakes are comfortable in their skins.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. No, I've never heard that particular phrase about snakes,
but Hillary seems refreshingly comfortable being herself. So does Bill.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. No, they don't actually. But they've said it often enough about Obama.
Edited on Sun Sep-23-07 10:15 PM by pnwmom
Would you like me to join every Obama thread with similar nasty comments?

I really like Obama, but I'm getting really tired of your tactics. You're not helping your candidate with me.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I will go with you. Give me the secret sign.
I am so tired of the negative drivel.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Me, too. Overall, I'm so pleased with our field this time.
But less so with some of their supporters.

:shrug:
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ElizabethDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Don't snakes shed their skin?
That, to me, implies a level of discomfort.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. That's why snakes shed their skins. They can't stand being comfortable.
:eyes:
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
29. Its great seeing her relaxed and in top form
It's good for the general public to see that. Despite some poster opinions, she is neither snake nor Medusa. :)

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
33. She needs a "ranch" so she can go "cut brush" on her "vacations".
Probably ought to learn to look like more of a beer drinker, too.
:sarcasm:
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
40. reminds me of Imelda Marcos.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Oh yeah, Clinton is such a clothes horse.
And she's clearly planning to become a dictator.

:sarcasm:
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kmccaskill Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
44. hillary experience
This illusion that you get more presidential experience from the Senate is sheer nonsense. How many Senators have become President of America? Does Laura Bush have the experience to be President? Sitting in the front seat beside the driver for 8 years will never make you an experienced driver.

John Edwards spent six years in the Senate and had only 1 sponsored bill passed. Hillary has 2 insignificant bills passed in all her 9 years, while Obama has had 2 bills with his name passed in just over 2 years. And very important legislation he co-sponsored with Republican colleagues.
GovTrack describes Hillary’s sponsorship as “VERY POOR” and Obama’s as “AVERAGE”

In the State legislature he also passed significant healthcare, ethics reform, crime and poverty bills. Take a look at Senator Obama's bills in the State legislature:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/07/29/us/politics/20070730_OBAMA_GRAPHIC.html

Compare that with Hillary's record on her website. Even her ads make no reference to any tangible accomplishments of hers. Hiding behind Bill Clinton will not make her an experienced candidate. Only fools are deceived by her campaign's marketing skills.
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