I'm so tired of reading on DU how Democrats are weak and pathetic

To begin with, that's a right wing meme meant to demoralize us. It apparently works on quite a few here.

However, the Democrats do not look weak and pathetic. I read somewhere this morning that this Congress already has the record for the most roll call votes and is on track to triple that by the end of next year. 1 in 6 Senate roll call votes are cloture votes for Republic filibusters to block Democratic legislation. It is obvious to Americans that it's the Republics who are the obstructionists.

Americans are very aware that the Democrats have a very slim majority, but a majority nevertheless. That means that the Democrats do not have all the votes necessary to pass all the legislation they want much less the votes to override a veto. But that also means Democrats are already successful in aborting the Republic agenda for the last two years of Bush that was likely going to be the absolute worst of all from a Republic White House and Congress.

When this Congress took office, no one that understands how legislation is made really expected the Democrats to perform legislative miracles that would reverse 6 years of Republic destruction. Nor do Americans expect miracles in these two years. The desire for change in this country did not end last November. Americans are still pushing back hard from the radical Republic agenda. This is why I think that next year we may get within 5, maybe 4 votes of being able to have 60 votes in the Senate to block Republic filibusters. And I think the Democrats may even pick up another 10 - 15, maybe 20 more seats in the House along with the White House. If all that happens, and the Democrats don't start passing legislation we want and need, then I'll be right there with you criticizing the Democrats.

Until then, I'm very happy that we have been able to subvert and derail the Republic agenda to complete the destruction of this country and wait until January 09 to start repairing this country.

are weak and pathetic. They are what I would call WAY TO COMFORTABLE for the good of running this country. They get a comfortable salary, comfortable eating arrangements, comfortable health care, and comfortable recommendations for them and their children to go to many comfortable places.

Of course the DEMs and the REPs are collaborating. Why haven't you figured that out yet?

I have an idea: try documenting what you're saying. I think the OP made some good points. if you wish to refute them, do so, but try using something to back it up so you don't just look unhinged.

I will agree that on some level the rich elite could give two shits about us down here, but I don't see any evidence that the two parties are the same or in collusion with each other on a whole. Some within the party? Sure, I'd agree with that. But the whole thing? I suppose it's possible, but unlikely.

Frankly, Bush has proven just how bad the worse of two evils can be.

....perhaps you should read some material, any material, that is not written by someone inside the "left" or "right" establishment. What I am saying is extremely well documented. You either are blind or have your eyes so tightly shut that you will not see it. Step outside the thought-box that you have been in since birth.

By the way, paranoia is defined as a disturbed thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat. This definition very clearly describes the thought process of both the "left" and the "right," especially given the bombardment of irrational and delusional vectors perpetrated on the public by actors across the political spectrum and in the media. So, it is you who should be concerned about paranoid thinking, as it is YOU who is the target of these vectors.

there are many many impeachable offenses this administration has perpetrated on this nation..and our dems now in control of congress are doing nothing about it..

how man subpoenas are now outstanding??????

when did Condi get hers?? April or May?? and what has been done about it????????

now we find out this white house to manipulate the FISA bill in August exposed a link to Osama..when they promised they would not..

come on..who is kidding who here??

our congress took an oath of office to defend the constitution and it is dems in collusion with Repig that are not fulfilling their responsibility to their oath of office.

take the rose colored glasses off..

i will not be like the sheeple..i will hold our own accountable..that is my responsibility to my constitution ..of WE THE PEOPLE...i will not excuse our reps like the sheeple do with theirs..i will not be a dembot..

like the sheeple are bushbots..

i want truth damn it..i want it ..i worked to get these people elected and damn it i will hold them accountable and i will hold their feet to the fire.

that is my responsibility to my nation ..for my children and the children of the future of this republic democracy.

fly

AND I agree that the Dems are not actively fighting for that, but it's not the same as being 100% in bed together either. Like I said, I'd say some of them are, but overall I don't think they are, or that both parties are in a conspiracy to destroy America - again, beyond the basic conspiracy of greed and power which can happen regardless of party affiliation. I also think there are exceptions to the rule.

I'd say the more likely cause of lack of impeachment is that they are being political - they want to "rise above" the partisanship of the Repukes from the 90s, which did not go over well with the American people. Even though we have a stronger case against Bush, I can sort of understand that.

Also, the left has ALWAYS been more conciliatory in my lifetime at least, in that (a) we don't even all agree with each other, and (b) we tend to try to placate the Republicans instead of dominating them. Domination of a witch hunt are the games of the Rightwing.

So does it depress or disgust me that they are not seeking impeachment? yes, it does, Do I hate them for it? Of course I don't. Do I wish we had viable alternative parties? Yes I do. Do I trust the government in general? Not really.

wealthy neighborhoods and laugh. Anyone that doesn't believe they are playing a game, may be intelligent but they lack common sense. Its like watching WWE wrestling, there is a good team and a bad team and they act like they hate each other to entertain us and keep us busy while they make lots of money and so do their investors. They play a game where both sides win and we the people pay the bill. When more people wake up to what they are doing, maybe then we will elect someone that represents us instead of the same old characters. Until then, our country will suffer as the wealthy continue to stay wealthy and powerful at our expense.

Your terms are too general.
There are many rank & file democrats that I know that aren't satisfied with the performance of a number of Democrats in Congress. Of particular concern are:
1. the war and Iraq - & Dems who continue to vote to fund it.
2. Blanket surveilance of the American people without a warrant and Dems who have no problem with this and even want it expanded.

during the 2004 and 2006 elections. The blue dogs specifically targeted all dem candidates who wanted withdrawal from Iraq with dirty tricks, they put conservatives in the primaries (which they deny), funded them, they even put republicans into the primaries as democrats. This was all extremely calculated.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/090607J.shtml

no that would be too damn logical, lol.

'

First, I do not think it is "obvious to Americans that it's the Republics who are the obstructionists" because most Americans do not pay close enough attention to learn the truth, especially through the corporate media echo chamber.

I also think that, for the same reason, Americans think in simplistic terms and because the Dems "control" both chambers, the blame is easily put on them for failure to achieve much of value. And aborting Puke policies is the absence of a negative which is even harder to publicise and understand.

The big issue that Democrats ran on was the war, and the truth is that they have achieved nothing on that front.

It is not ONLY the "left-wing wacko" base that is dissatisfied with the performance so far. And with the media so anxious to push the Puke perspective, that is the reality that perception creates.

Finally, not holding Georgie and his junta accountable does show weakness, IMO.

I certainly wish things were different...

And I don't mean trolls and/or Republicans.

"Until then, I'm very happy that we have been able to subvert and derail the Republic agenda to complete the destruction of this country and wait until January 09 to start repairing this country."


What exactly have the Democrats in Congress subverted or derailed? They haven't stopped the funding of the war, they passed FISA legislation giving Bush what he wanted, and there is a strong possibility that the permanent FISA legislation will be exactly what Bush wants to inculde retroactive immunity for the phone companies that gave up information without receiving warrants, the troops won't get to remain at home for the same number of months that they are deployed, and Bush vetoed the S-CHIP legislation because the house couldn't get a veto proof majority, and I still haven't seen any contempt of congress subpoenas issued.

But, they did get the minimum wage bill passed!

Dont republics need a certain amount of votes to get legislation passed as well?
I mean, how could they keep funding the war or spying on us if they dont have
some votes from the Dem side as well.

Not asking to be a wise ass, just askin.

our reps total refusal to do anything they were elected to do' crowd. They think it's just fine that they vote for more spying on the citizens of this country. They don't mind handing the criminals blank checks, and for goodness sakes NEVER criticize them for not doing anything about the way Gonzo, Rice, Meirs, et. al., thumbed their noses at the laws of this country. See, if we don't mention it, maybe we'll forget all the big talk about contempt of congress. (Although it is impossible for me to beleive that anyone could have as much contempt for congress as I have.)

...whether they deserve it or not, or never question them for anything they've ever done wrong.

:eyes:

Thinking through complex matters really isn't your strong suit, is it?

NGU.

freedom, our civil rights, we fighting an illegal and horrifically immoral war, we can't fix our bridges, insure our kids, feed the hungry, put a roof over the heads of the homeless, and six (count 'em Buckwheat) SIX FUCKING LIVE NUKES ARE RUNNING AROUND THE COUNTRY and end up in a staging base for the Middle East, THEY AREN'T DOING A GOD DAMN THINK THAT'S WORTH A SHIT.

NGU.

pieces that would normally tell you that these fuckwits we have representing us are doing this country, no this world, a hell of a lot of harm with their all talk and no action bullshit policies they think they're fooling us with.

You can't have it all now, can you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3023269&mesg_id=3023269

NGU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3023592

NGU.

plans for the new war? Are they gonna fund this one again.

I am NOT impressed. Let's see how this plays out. If they hold.

Get back to me when they start issuing those contempt citations. We have the goods on those thugs thumbing their noses at the rule of law. That goes all the way down to some pathetic political appointee who bursts into tears because she was way to incompetent for the job she had. For some snotty little ass to just declare that she will not provide the documents that investigators wants just cracks me up.

am going to need a little help figuring out what it is that you meant, even though I suspect I'm spending way more time on it than it's worth.

Who is Merle Travis?

GMAN or whatever you handle is.
How does a minority party get legislation passed without help
from the other side????

Again, not being a wise ass, but your the one who said some people dont understand how this works.
Please, explain it to me....if what your saying is true, then I guess I really dont
know how these things are done.

Edit: ooops! wrong handle.

That doesnt answer my question.
How does a minority get legislation passed without the majorities help?
Very simple question. Do they go to bars and treat for drinks??

Its late, I dont expect an answer today.
It would be nice if you took the time to reply tommorrow.
I'm truly puzzled.

I'm sorry, but this is more appropriate for a Disney movie than a political discussion.

There are things that the new Democratic Congresspeople were elected to do. But every time, they bent over and allowed the Republicans to have their way. If they were frustrated in their attempts, they didn't complain publicly. They could have at least screamed in frustration in their press conferences.

The only people screaming were the Republicans at MoveOn.org and at this silly legislation to keep kids from dying. Those screams came through loud and clear. Oh, that and Pelosi's determination not to even allow a discussion of impeachment.

This is not a right-wing meme. It is reality. And calling someone like me names, as I'm sure is about to happen, isn't going to take the pink tutus off the Democratic Congress.

and the republicans are doing everything they can to block even ordinary bills to make it seem they democratic congress is doing anything. Look at all the so called blue dogs, who in reality are bush democrats. They vote every damn vote with the republicans.

What I find so damn frustrating is the fact that they don't PUSH BACK. They let the republicans have the floor so to speak. Look at the piece of dog turd Cornpone from Texas. Using his time in front of the camera to show the ad about bush's puppet general. And then look at them trying to pass a resolution commending the worst than dog turds, rush limbaugh. I think the democrats, when they don't push back against this trash, is the reason people think they are weak.

What they need is a strong spokes person who doesn't care about the fall out to get out there and give em hell. They sure don't have democratic politic ans like they use to, Ted Kennedy tries and so does John Kerry at times but they can't do it alone.

self-delete

We need more of them.

We'd be happy with some obstruction of Bush. We don't need anything else, really. If they really were shutting the war down by refusing to do anything Bush wants, most of us would be happy as clams and calling for more reps elected in 2008 and a WH victory.

That isn't happening.

Not only is that not happening, Bush is getting everything he demands, and our reps are calling it "compromise."

Given that fact, if people weren't upset, I'd wonder what was wrong.

Let's say you're raising a child who does the right thing 50% of the time - heck, even 25% of the time. But he misses some of the big ones the rest of the time.

Scenario 1: You scream at him for missing the big ones, telling him he's worthless, and weak, and spineless, and you make damn sure he knows he can't count on you to be there for him.

Scenario 2: You praise him for his successes, but stress to him what's important to you for him to learn, and encourage him to do better.

Under which scenario do you expect to get a positive result?

NGU.

I would hope we elected representatives, not tinkerbells. Keep clapping everyone! or tinkerbell dies!

:rofl:

NGU.

...at the expense of progress and results.

NGU.

the lack of progress and results is why I'm posting.

Now will you please try communicating instead of ridiculing?

NGU.

I'm not sure its possible to prove that point in a rational way.

My point to you was that ridicule is not conductive to progress and persuasion. Just follow the "Response to Reply" link in the upper right-hand corner of the posts to see for yourself.

NGU.

Of course, its says more about their insufferability than my age, but :shrug;

"Now will you please try communicating instead of ridiculing?"

Followed up by "Pay attention, child."

Physician, heal thyself.

:eyes:

NGU.

:)

:)

That is weak and pathetic.

Now FISA is up again. Bush wants no strings attached to that also. Plus he wants a retroactive pass for any illegal activity on the part of the telecoms.

What will they do? If you had to bet money, would you bet your own money that they are going to stand up to Bush?

their approval would be above 11%

I think the place needs more proactive mods who'll actually enforce Rule 2. As Magistrate said in locking a thread, this place is meant as a haven from the M$M slime machine to support the party and the cause. But lately, DU has become anything but that. The recent locking (and subsequent unlocking) of a pro-Pelosi thread proves that.

Considering that there always seems to be a "Pelosi sucks! Waaaah" thread in GD tells me the mods are not doing their fucking jobs.

...

Five virtual bucks says this post is deleted within 12 hours because some mods don't like inconvenient truths posted about them.

Not because it offends a mod.

Get a grip.

:shrug:

if we refuse to say something, it can"t be true.

I'm not saying they're the same, and I'm not saying they haven't accomplished anything since '06....but damn, this is one pip of an "opposition" party. x(

They don't HAVE to be same as republicans if they cannot OPPOSE republicans and give them everything they want.

I've said before: if your own teammates score points for the other team, does it matter what jersey they're wearing? you still lose.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3023269&mesg_id=3023269

And this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3023592

And both just today?

:eyes:

NGU.

of our dems than we are of Pugs. Such vitriol is demeaning to our cause.

You KNOW they'd be the hot sections at DU.

"This is wiretap"

:rofl: