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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:43 PM
Original message
Senator Clinton is going down...
If she continues to vote to empower this administration in any way.

"Clinton has come under fire for supporting a US Senate resolution to brand Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) as a terrorist group. The White House is seeking to pressure Iran into abandoning its nuclear activities through threatening the country with sanctions and military action."

Bush threatening sanctions and military action + legislation labeling part of Iran's military a terrorist organization = War on Iran.

If we go to war with Iran I will not vote for anyone who even remotely authorized it. period.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. She said she wants the troops out of Iraq.
I guess she's going to do that by moving them to Iran!
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. But it may take until 2013 or later!

Maybe moving them to Iran would get them out of Iraq sooner. Not exactly what we all had in mind, though.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. To Be Consistent
Obama would consider missile strikes on Iran

"On the other hand, having a radical Muslim theocracy in possession of nuclear weapons is worse. So I guess my instinct would be to err on not having those weapons in the possession of the ruling clerics of Iran. ... And I hope it doesn't get to that point. But realistically, as I watch how this thing has evolved, I'd be surprised if Iran blinked at this point."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/printedition/chi-0409250111sep25,1,4555304.story
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Preventative or pre-emptive war is ILLEGAL!!!
She should know that; she is a lawyer.

It is NEVER o.k.

You cannot invade a sovereign nation because you don't like what they might do, any more than you can go kill your neighbor because he doesn't like you and might poison you in six months.

Does she think that I'm THAT ill-informed?
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Obama said he would concider. it would depend on circumstances as
he is not big about war. As a president he would have to defend the country but, he is not for dumb wars and needless wars. and labeling a country's military as terrorist organization is not his idea of good judgment or would be a reason to go to war.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Too bad the senate didn't have the benefit of Obama's "good judgement" when it was time to vote.
:cry:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. too bad Hillary voted with the GOP war scheme machine
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. "...bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely,
and therefore, war, less likely". HRC
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. A pearl of wisdom that could easily have rolled off of Bill Kristol's tongue
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. News flash: Bill Kristol has nothing but contempt for the UN.
:eyes:
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DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. Let's see how many average voters agree with her on that
Sady, when it comes to moderates and soccer moms, I somehow doubt she'd go down for labeling the Iranian military terrorists. They'd probably agree with her given their limited acquisition of facts.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. And of course...Obama...in yet another flip flop...
Co-sponsored a bill that would have labeled Iran's revolutionary guard a terrorist organization...

And can you point me to a single statement prior to the Kyl-Lieberman vote where Obama spoke out against it...
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. I get so tired of the same BS argument that has already been debunked...
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 06:02 PM by Tellurian
You should read whats going on now. What went on since you were here last. And whats going on tomorrow before you start in with BS hearsay!

Please read:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3610447#3610645
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superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. So far I havent seen any evidence that they are building a weapon.
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 08:24 PM by superkia
I see allot of Iraq type propaganda flying everywhere but its definitely not time to sign anything to make things worse. If they wanted to call them terrorists, how about they do it if they actually have some evidence on the nuclear issue and then give Bush something he can abuse. Just keep in mind, you must then say that you didn't have anything to do with it and its all the other guys fault. Why not sign something about genocide, maybe it will fire someone up a little.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. The Iranians are going the diplomatic route..
someone posted this in response to my post.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RV8H100&show_article=1

The reshaping of The Kyl-Lieberman Amed has had a positve effect in getting the UN involved at the request of Iran.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Good news!
:hug:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. Going down on who? n/t
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Whew...
I thought I was the only one who naturally flipped to that mental image.

Bad me...
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. uhm
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. Whom
And it's none of your business, missy.
.
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. Pennsylvania avenue to the White House.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Jimmy Carter, Jim Webb, Obama, and I agree.
:thumbsup:
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. If your concern is designating the IRGC a terrorist org
Then you're down to Edwards, Kucinich, Gravel, Richardson and Biden.

(Clinton, Obama and Dodd have supported labeling the IRGC a terrorist org at various times this year.)
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. And knock Edwards and Biden for IWR
If you're against K/L, how can you excuse IWR?
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. It's like Ten Little Indians... Down to Richardson, Kucinich and Gravel
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Richardson was in favor of the IWR and said he would have voted for it. Down to two now
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
22. Ya think?
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
25. SCOTUS
I don't like Clinton either, but do you really think her SCOTUS nominations will be as odious as any of the GOPs?
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. the Senate has confirmed virtually all of Bu$h's nominees
... virtually all unanimously since 2001 ... young appointees (for longevity) groomed and vetted by Ed Meese and the Federalist Society ...many with no prior experience as a judge ... judicial appointees made by someone holding the presidency via stolen/coup'd elections ...

where are the objections by voting Nay? voting Yea only enables and legitimizes Bu$h and the rightwing, corporate agenda for decades to come ...


see the roll call votes for the 110th Congress's judicial confirmations alone ...

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_110_1.htm
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
29. Bill Clinton presided over most of the Iraqi genocide.
And yes, it was genocide. 1.5 million people killed in a programme that it's own Baghdad based administrator described as "satisf the definition of genocide". When Madeleine Albright, Clintons UN Ambassador, was asked about the then-500,000 dead children in 1996, she famously replied "We think the price is worth it". The sanctions may have originally been written by Bush Sr., but they were held in place long after the rest of the UN had grown tired of them because the U.S. refused to back off them and applied tremendous pressure to that body. That was on Clinton's watch. I wont even get into the thousands of tons of munitions dropped on Iraq during the NFZ enforcement and Operation Desert Fox in 1996.

Hillary has done nothing to indicate that her foreign policy practices will be any different than that of her husbands, which were really no different than that of Bush Sr. or even Reagan. Bomb everyone you don't like is NOT a good foundation for foreign policy.
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