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To Impeach or Not To Impeach, That Is The Question ...

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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-17-07 08:44 AM
Original message
To Impeach or Not To Impeach, That Is The Question ...
I had the privilege to participate in the book talk with John Dean on Firedoglake Sunday and he gave me an answer to my burning question that is giving me much food for thought. I believe his answer would tamp down some of the troubled worries and heated discussion among we progressives, it certainly helped me alot. But it also gave me a task and mission because what he proposes means more voices raised. I wish I could submit my question for the next televised debate in one of those YouTube thingies, but I do not have the equipment. Perhaps someone reading this post will help.

Mr Dean's main premise in his http://www.amazon.com/dp/0670018201?tag=firedoglake-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=0670018201&adid=1H61ZF3RJ4SCC78HGYYR&">book , Broken Goverenment, How Republican Rule Destroyed the Legislative, Executive and Judicial Branches is that we need to make sure all elected representatives play by the Constitutional rules, otherwise our national integrity is compromised (my interpretation, not his). Usually I write here about poverty but after listening to Mr Dean's interviews on some radio and television interviews last week about his book, I have been thinking more globally about trying to fix some of the gross and heartless directions this administration has taken and what we could do about it.

My burning question was this:

I am concerned about how we can get Democrats to play by the rules. It seems like they have already been doing that and are "trumped" by people who make up new rules as they go along and then yell, "sorry, you lost!" Or when someone plays by the "new" rules, people feign outrage and they are, "Shocked, shocked I tell you!" Impeachment seems to be the only way to get the message across that We The People do not approve of these tactics, but the Dems don’t even want to play by THAT rule they say it is "off the table." I am discouraged and frustrated that Dems won’t even enforce the rules already there.

What can we do about this and will there be "retroactive" things that can be done after this administration gets out of office, or is during their term time the only chance we have to make them accountable?

Cat In Seattle"


I was not the only one asking about impeachment. There was much talk about impeachment and why the Democrats won't pursue it. I myself have heard my very progressive representative,Jim McDermott tell a crowd when the subject of impeachment was raised that, to pursue impeachment would take too much time and they had so many things to fix that the last congress had ignored or damaged, that he was worried that impeachment would not allow them to do this work. Until now as far as Representative McDermott stated and though it troubled me, he made a great deal of sense, but he did not convince me. I kept thinking that we have less than 2 years left to make this administration accountable and not only were the Democrats not going to do this, they were bending over in droves to continue handing Bu$h whatever he asks for.

But Mr Dean explains in his book and to my question that we do not have to take the road of impeachment now, and that if a Democratic majority continued through the presidential election, this was our one hope. We do not need to impeach right now, IF and only if, the next presidential election is a Democrat but only IF and only if we demand to know what all elected officials are going to do about the criminal things that were done and let them know that if we elect them, we expect them to do whatever they commit to doing ~ and the elected president has enougn integrity to do it.

Here is what Mr Dean replied to my question:

No. 42: QUESTION: What can we do about this and will there be "retroactive" things that can be done after this administration gets out of office, or is during their term time the only chance we have to make them accountable?

ANSWER: First re your comment. Do not be discouraged or disappointed for then they win. They want you to go away. Yes, there will be "retroactive" active things — if the Dems win in 2008. This will be the first thing the new president does. But if these process issues are not in play in 2008, as I believe they must be, then not all the clean up works that needs to be undertake will be. The issues I raise in BG are not only winning issues for the campaign in 2008 but they are essential fixes that must be undertaken.


He also pointed out to another discouraged blogger that the Dems were not folding as we often perceive:

No. 53 - QUESTION: Do you know of any reasons why they are holding back and not following through on enforcing the subpoenaes that they have previously issued?

ANSWER: I have not seen any Democratic chairman fold yet, rather these issues are still on the table. In 99 of 100 cases these matters are resolved politically before they go to court, and Congress has let its own proceedings to try con tempters grow rusty.


There was discussion that perhaps the Democrats do not want to remove the awesome power that Bu$h and his cronies have grabbed. This is why perhaps it is time to also ask Republican legislators if they will tolerate this, since no longer does their body hold as much power as the president, but has been diminished to mere rubber stamps ~ and for them if a Democratic president holds power their representation is also diminished. Also I do not know about the readers here, but I think it is just as dangerous for a Democrat to play by Bu$h rules as a Republican because the three branches of government should act as checks and balances, not as a rubber stamp.

So in short, Mr Dean is suggesting that, we work hard to make accountability a major issue and push our candidates to speak to what they would do after they are elected. I am thinking it is not just the president from whom we will need a commitment, but every elected official, AND it should be a presidential issue to be raised. After all, Nixon left office because of his own party's support of impeachment. Perhaps we need to hold EVERY elected Democratic or Republican official in DC to ascertain what they will do about this administration's trampling on Constitutional law. So what work are these candidates going to do to make sure that the present administration is aware that the calvary is coming and that what they have done will not go away?

What do y'all think and do you think asking our candidates as to what they plan to do about retroactive actions should be an issue and do you have any suggestions as to how to make this an issue?

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-17-07 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. may be no chance?
this Bush administration is still very dangerous and can put in place a situation that there may not be any 2008 elections or anything else. The time is now to take action.
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-17-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Oh Agreed But...
...the Dems are not going to do it. I do think we need to hold our candidates' feet to the fire here. We shjould ask them that, if impeachment is off the table, what are they going to do about it if they are elected? I think this should also be asked of legislative candidates of both parties.

My 2 cents

Cat
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-17-07 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think we know the answer already
they will do nothing
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jmp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-17-07 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
4. Impeachment is off the table.
...

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dmosh42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-17-07 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. I can understand why the Dem leaders are reluctant to Impeach...
with all the marshmallows in the Senate. But not to enforce subpoenas, is not to complete investigations for evidence. And to let time pass by is consenting to criminal activities. So, in a sense, the Dem congress is guilty of this criminal activity also.
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