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From the Democratic "policy shop"...the plan for Iraq.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 04:04 PM
Original message
From the Democratic "policy shop"...the plan for Iraq.
Al From and Harold Ford lay out the new policy for leaving Iraq. I would imagine this is what we will see happen.

Harold Ford upon becoming chairman of the group said they would be the policy shop for the 08 nominee

Here is what Ford and From wrote today.

Ending the Stalemate on Iraq

Republicans are holding out for an illusory victory. Democrat rightly want to force a new direction, but they’re not going to get it if the only option they offer is immediate withdrawal. It’s clear the votes for immediate withdrawal are not there, and the resulting impasse will empower President Bush to maintain his same failed policy through the rest of his administration.

..."We need a new strategy now — a strategy that both brings more peace and stability to Iraq and serves as a 21st century national security policy that focuses on containing the spread of Islamic terrorism around the world.

The key to a new course is to forge a bipartisan agreement in support of a small sustainable military presence in Iraq for the foreseeable future to guard our strategic interests in the region.

The size of the force should be determined by conditions on the ground, but it should be significantly smaller than our current force. Whether we like it or not, the United States is part of the balance in the Middle East, just as we were in Europe for the last half of the 20th century, and we must stay engaged in this part of the world to help protect our interests and to contain Islamic fundamentalists from spreading terrorism in the region and throughout the world.


That is probably all the withdrawal we will see. I don't think many of our Democrats or any Republicans ever planned to leave anyway. I don't think they ever expected to leave there. Like Germany after WWII, like Korea, like the troops we still have in Vietnam....we were meant to stay. It is part of being a force in the regions.

It does worry me to see the words indicating we are expecting to bring peace and prosperity to the region.

Last month General David Petraeus was asked by Senator Warner if Americans were safer because of the war we are waging in Iraq. The General said he could not say for sure. This is the most credible acknowledgement we have that we need to change our strategy. We need a bipartisan policy that makes us safer and strengthens our ability to bring peace and stability to Iraq.


Realistically I don't think we can make the area peaceful and stable. We have murdered too many innocent civilians, and bombed too much of their infrastructure. We have built an indecently large embassy, like a way of flaunting our authority.

It seems to be all words to pacify and sound nice on paper. It is meant to protect our embarrassingly huge embassy and the oil fields which we now think of as ours to control.

"Strong and wrong" about Iraq

From 2002:

"The last point I want to make is we've got to be strong," he declared. "When we look weak in a time where people feel insecure, we lose. When people feel uncertain, they'd rather have somebody who's strong and wrong than somebody who's weak and right." Actually, this was also the first point he made in his hourlong speech, and he repeated it many times throughout. Supporting the war is insufficient, Clinton warned. "I approve of what's being done in Iraq now and the way it's being done, but it's not enough," he said.


I see us doing the same thing now about Iran, about FISA.

Maybe our Democrats need a different "policy shop."

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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Pathetic
The key to a new course is to forge a bipartisan agreement in support of a small sustainable military presence in Iraq for the foreseeable future to guard our strategic interests in the region.


Let's just say it- our troops will be protecting Bushco's oil.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R for wider distribution.
This is very important.

Although she has been purposely vague, this IS the Hillary Plan for the Middle East.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. You got it.
Hillary and Harold Ford, like a lot in the DLC, use the code word: MISSION.

When any Dem frames the Occupation with the word MISSION, you know they have no desire to leave. As long as they see a MISSION, instead of an illegal occupation, their motives cannot be trusted.

Hillary talks of the changing the MISSION and the new MISSION in the war of terror.

The MISSION should be to get the hell out before it spreads to a regional war and then into WWIII.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. And strong on national security....
That strong and wrong comment by Bill Clinton in 2002 has been taken to heart by our party for the last few years.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes...to SO MANY...our presense in the Middle East is of Utmost Importance
so they rail on about WWII (which has nothing to do with Iraq/Afganistan) and they compare the two as the Islamofascists being the NEW NAZI's...and it turns out that it's always the NeoCons who drive this drivel. BUT...the power they have surpasses our Congress and Drives our Executive Branch....

So...we will be there forever in some form or the other. When they take the "troops and Contractors" out it will not be told to the American People how many or left there...and the surplus will go to wherever else the Global Executioners find a problem with "protestors." I would imagine South America will go back on the radar because of Hugo Chavez's rallying folks against the "PTB" ....but there are just so many places where an EMPIRE with a paid Mercenary Army and a fools game National Military can go...

The GAME IS AFOOT...as Sherlock Said.... :puke:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. From another arm of the policy shop....conference with Heritage Foundation
Tom Carper and Lindsay Graham getting together with PPI, Heritage, New America Foundation (what new Anerica...the empire building one?)

"The Unavoidable Challenge
Confronting Our Nation's Fiscal Crisis
Featuring Senators Tom Carper (D-DE) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
The Progressive Policy Institute, The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, The Heritage Foundation, and The New America Foundation cordially invite you to a policy forum"

.."The nation faces an unprecedented fiscal challenge as long-term budget projections show a clearly unsustainable path. The surpluses of the 1990s have turned into the deficits which will only grow in the future."

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=126&subsecID=189&contentID=254477

Yes, we have a deficit problem, but we don't have to get together with them.




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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. PPI....another of the many faces of the DLC.
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 09:54 PM by bvar22
K&R

The DLC has metastasized into many seemingly different organizations, but they ALL have the same root...$Corporate Money$.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well why hasn't anything been done about Biden's plan that passed in the
Senate? Why hasn't anything been DONE at all - Biden's plan or not? We're debating and thinking and not ACTING!

What the fuck are these people waiting for?
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. "It’s clear the votes for immediate withdrawal are not there" in the Congress. Ask the voters a hole
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. Interesting comment after the post there at the DLC link.
"I find it amusing when I hear somebody or other casually say that “we have to guard our strategic interests in the Middle East region” as if guarding our “strategic interests” in any foreign land on this planet is a God-given birthright of those of us who happened to be born within the borders of USA (or got naturalized as US citizens). What that “guarding” statement is saying in fact is that “might is right”. How would an American saying the above react if the American situation in terms of “military might” had happened to be the reverse vis-a-vis some country like, say, Djibouti, and Djibouti had been using its “might” to guard its “strategic interests” in the “North American region”?

Amen...when did we get all those strategic interests there anyway? After we invaded or before.
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jmp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. Bill Clinton: "I approve of what's being done in Iraq... but it's not enough"
Supporting the war is insufficient, Clinton warned. "I approve of what's being done in Iraq now and the way it's being done, but it's not enough," he said.


What more needs to be said? The Clintons have been complicit all along.




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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. PPI praises censure of MoveOn, says "terror war" will never end
This was a very obvious attempt by someone who is not a Democrat apparently to encourage the effort to be strong at all costs.

Bridge the security gap

This constant pounding on not letting the Republicans make us look weak has taken its toll on our party.

To their credit, most Democrats swiftly condemned MoveOn's scurrilous attempts to vilify Gen. David Petraeus, even as they kept the pressure on President Bush to change course in Iraq. Unfortunately, however, changing old stereotypes has been made more difficult of late by misguided rhetoric from some Democratic congressional leaders and presidential candidates on issues that are central to the perception of the party's seriousness on defense and security matters. It would be a shame if, having done so much to shore up their credentials for national-security leadership, Democrats start backsliding in the heat of a national election.


That paragraph was calling to task anyone who speaks out against what we did there in Iraq. That is shameful to see that at a think tank that is affiliated supposedly with Democrats.

I will not hesitate to say that I feel that Bill Clinton in his zeal to appear strong on national security said something in a speech in 2002 that has put our party on the wrong path. I posted it above, I will post it again.

We should never ever have tried to appear "strong" on Iraq at the expense of being right and honest.

He said it is http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1051">better to be strong and wrong than look weak and be right.

"The last point I want to make is we've got to be strong," he declared. "When we look weak in a time where people feel insecure, we lose. When people feel uncertain, they'd rather have somebody who's strong and wrong than somebody who's weak and right." Actually, this was also the first point he made in his hourlong speech, and he repeated it many times throughout. Supporting the war is insufficient, Clinton warned. "I approve of what's being done in Iraq now and the way it's being done, but it's not enough," he said


How many of our military and how many innocent Iraqis would be alive today if we had dared to be right?
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