About Obama missing the vote on Kyl-Lieberman:

Can anyone point to an unbiased source that explains:

What was the story the night before the vote?

When was it scheduled, when was it held?

How much notice of the schedule change was there?

FWIW- I checked a travel site and it would have taken 4 to 6 hours (including stops at Philadelphia or NYC)to get to Baltimore from Manchester, New Hampshire on a weekday morning. I'm not sure it would have been physically possible for Obama to travel from New Hampshire to DC in time for the vote.

FWIW- Obama was reported to be sick that day, and in a separate story Michelle Obama referred to sitting up all night holding a sick kid's head over the toilet. Anybody want to bet he spent a good part of the day talking to Ralph on the porcelain telephone?

I wish everyone would do that with all the candidates

The only reason somebody would miss a vote is to avoid having the actual vote used against him/her. Since he's made so many statements on Iran, made it a centerpiece of his campaign, he can't hardly come back and pretend he supported the vote later.

This is just another phony issue concocted by the Clinton campaign to divert attention from her dangerous politics.

did not even bother to show up for the vote, and has the nerve to complain about someone else's vote.

And he got a free pass during the debate. Double standard and more evidence of the all out attack on Clinton while others got free passes.

and has been consistent on his Iran policy all along. This is just another trumped up piece of shit to divert attention from the fact that Clinton supports warmongering policies.

If it was such a horrifc war-starting event, why would he be mum about it? Why not shout from the rooftops? (cause it is a lie)

He only spoke after --from a safe distance, without even bothering to show up. More spin. But, go ahead. If that type of distorted / spinning/ politics is ok with you--go ahead and continue to support it.

No. That's all that matters. The rest is just pure Clinton bullshit.

to make his mistakes look better. If he has an Iran policy--why wasn't he shouting from the rooftops BEFORE the vote? Umm...yeah...we know.

Who is lying and distorting??? The same two people who have been lying and distorting for 15 goddamn years. Wake the fuck up. I don't care who we get, but we need to get somebody besides the Clintons.

Clinton explained her vote. It is not simplistic. It is not a lie. She believes in sanctions appropriately as a stick.

Obama's view on Iran is no different than Clinton's view. His naive approach however is different. It shows his inexperience. And, he also showed his inexperience in campaigning...that he can complain about someone else's vote without even bothering to show up--what kind of a senator is that?

He also showed what type of president he would be. If he has a view on Iran--why is it only talk? When it comes to action--he misses the vote, and does not even address it at all publicly until it is too late. Sorry, I need more from a president that monday afternoon quarterbacking.

So how can you turn around and say he hasn't addressed an Iran policy until it was too late? How can you say their policy is the same, and then call Obama's "naive'? You do just like Hillary, contradict yourself in the span of 2 minutes.

did not oppose the bill
did not vote on it
co-sponsored a similar bill before

and..complains about Clinton switching positions? Whatever.


and..Why are you attacking me? You don't like the argument, stop arguing. This is a discussion board after all not an agree-with-me-or-I-will-call-you-names-board. Stop stooping to attack me...good god are you 12?

It was not the same bill at all.

I haven't attacked you at all. Maybe you better go read the posts again and see who made the personal comments.

there is your problem. That is irony. Lol

I've decided the Hillary people are not worth my time and you have proven that to be true, even though this is the first time I think I've ever even talked to you. good bye.

Should he complain to his party whip? Should he fire a staffer?

NOT INFORMED? Like Bush didn't know bin Ladin was planning to attack America?

This is what Reid said the night before the bill.

Mr. REID. Mr. Chairman, there will be no more votes tonight. We have tried to work something out on the Kyl-Lieberman amendment and the Biden amendment. We have been unable to do that.

We have been very close a few times, but we have just been informed that Senator Biden will not have a vote anytime in the near future. There will not be a vote on the other one anytime in the near future. We hope tonight will bring more clearness on the issue.”

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r110:1:./temp/~r110tixxsb:e130345: (very temporary link, altho I have research and found it in the Senate record verbatim.)

The Biden amendment was voted on at 12:16PM and Kyl-Lieberman at 12:44PM. Reid announced that Kyl-Lieberman would be voted on at 12:1PM.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00348

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00349

I would say calling for the vote the next day at 12:14 and having it at 12:44Pm is definitely the "near future."

Why the MYSTERY surrounding this matter? A mystery that has continued for FAR TOO LONG?

He could clear it up with any number of short sentences:

1. No one told me when the vote was gonna be. They didn't tell me, my staff, my campaign staff, anyone.

2. They did tell me, but I couldn't make it. I didn't have time to charter a plane, get tickets, whatever.

3. I was too tired/sick/uninspired to haul ass all the way down there. I didn't want to BOTHER.

Obama seems to make it a habit, this NOT CLEARING SHIT UP. He lets these little imbroglios fester, and I don't know why. If he thinks just ignoring it will make it go away, that's not a 'go.' It sure didn't work the last time he tried to brazen his way through a situation.

He's better off addressing issues and moving on--not ignoring issues and plowing ahead. If he doesn't want to be accused of being a 'vote ducker' he needs to come right out and say, in straightforward fashion, WHY he didn't feel the need to show up, or why he wasn't TOLD WHEN to show up, or why he didn't have TIME to show up.

He's trying to have it both ways. It's not working. And all of his supporters, coming up with lame, mysterious "sick kid" or "no airplane" reasons are NOT HELPING HIM. They should tell him to pipe up with the reason too, and then everyone can MOVE ALONG.

I haven't seen HIM say that.

Christ, what a load of horseshit.

If you wake up in the morning and you find the bed is wet...blame the baby!!!

statement that morning:



However, Mr. Levin's later request to go forward was met without objection:

And further, I want to point out this self-evident truth: What is said on the Floor of the Senate is NOT the be-all and end-all. Often, Senators know damned well that a vote will happen, even if there is pushing and shoving on or off the floor and amongst the caucus over it.

After all, we know who controls that agenda. For you to suggest that Obama was totally out of the loop means that REID dissed a member of his own caucus.

with me? I just posted the Senate record.

and a tangled web is woven to cover up her yes vote

Obama said there are close votes and this wasn't one of them.

I think you and others are making a mountain out of a molehill for partisan reasons. Hillary was the only one to vote yes.

Everything from "He could not get a flight" to "His kid was sick" and "Maybe he was sick, too."

If the vote was 76 to 22, Clinton PLAINLY wasn't "the only one to vote yes."

And there's that FALSE DICHOTOMY, again. Everything Obama does MUST be compared to Clinton, even when discussing these matters with people who are NOT Clinton supporters....

:eyes:

this is an election and voters are comparison shopping and kickin' the tires.

You don't seem to get it doesn't matter why Obama didn't vote, it only matters that he didn't vote yes. Nobody cares which Republicans that voted yes on it becasue it was expected and has nothing to do with the dem race. Voters do care that Hillary is the only democratic candidate to vote yes on it and that WILL be compared to the other candidates whether you like it or not.

You accuse others of trying to shut down debate but you are doing that by screeching 'false dichotomy' over and over when voters are supposed to look at all the facts.

And you do that in every thread where you turn up and gripe in EXACTLY that fashion.

The problem is, though, that not everyone is kicking the Clinton tires, here. Yet you continue to frame every "They're being MEAN to Obama" argument against a Clinton backdrop.

And that, mon frere, is TIRESOME. And it's also UNTRUE.

Here's why some legislators don't VOTE on issues in election years, in case you are unclear--because they are afraid the vote might come back to HAUNT THEM.

Just supposing Obama voted NO on this bill, and the Iranian Pasaradan exploded a suitcase nuke in Times Square on Christmas Day. How do you think that would play? Hmmmmm? How long could he survive against the inevitable campaign onslaughts from all comers? He might as well take his ball and go home.

If I had to make a guess as to why he didn't vote, that would be my guess. He's able to have it both ways, coyly, and at the same time, he is hedging his bets. JUST-IN-CASE, you see.

When you hear hoofbeats, you think horses, not zebras. That's the most likely explanation, all of this other horseshit aside.

You are trying to frame the debate according to where you are in the process of choosing a candidate, and that is what is tiresome and not truthful. You may not be considering some of the candidates, but some people are still looking at all of them. None of this stuff goes down in a vacuum.

It is revealing that you seem po'd that Obama may have actually made the smart move here, purposely or inadvertently. Horseshit aside, the truth emerges. I understand completely now.

And you aren't really helping, with your shilling of one, and dissing of the other, as if there are NO OTHER OPTIONS!!!

See, you are ASS...OOOOO...ming. You THINK you know where I am, but you really don't.

My mind changes every day, every hour, if I'm getting input.

So stop with the attempt to lock me in. That ain't happening.

I can, though, and will, tell you if I think a candidate is spouting bullshit. From Clinton to Richardson, from Obama to Edwards, from Kucinich to Biden.

You understand nothing, other than that you're an Obama shill, and you've proven it, here.

Heckuvajob, there, pal!!!!

He could not get a flight - the vote was brought up suddenly after everyone agreed it was going to take a few days to get everyone on board

"AND"

he was sick - news reports confirmed that he had a heavy cold/cough, didn't look good and might be in trouble for that night's debate

"AND"

my own supposition, bases on seeing a story about Michelle Obama, was that he had succumbed to the kind of crud parents of young school kids are always exposed to.

Also - I think the other poster meant to say Clinton was the only Democratic candidate to cote for the amendment.

But here's the bottom line--it isn't so hard to explain. Two or three sentences would clear up the mystery, and no one would be forced to suppose anything.

But that hasn't happened. We hear "reports" from people who heard something from people who are supposedly associated with the campaign, but nothing from the candidate.

How tough is it to say "I couldn't make it BECAUSE............."

So, you are saying that he chose NOT to vote? It is irresponsible. A U.S. Senator is supposed to vote on legislation. That is what they are elected to do. It's part of the job description.

Southwest airlines flies between the two cities 58 times a week. Direct flight, no stops. Other airlines can get you there, too, via NYC, Boston, a few other connectors. But Southwest is the straight shot, it's quick and usually on-time.

There are two other airports that are convenient as well for Senate voters (or any visitors with DC business)--Dulles and National. And it's a fast bang down to Boston from Manchester (I used to commute between the two cities some years ago--not pleasant, but entirely do-able, and even MORE so now that they've put in the new tunnel--it cuts about twenty to twenty five minutes off the race to Logan Airport).

The real question is a bit more problematic, though.

Why is there so much MYSTERY surrounding this vote?

How tough is it to say, declaritively, "I couldn't get a fight," or "I was sick?" Or even, "My kid was sick, I was tired?" Why spend even a second "betting" or speculating?

We aren't trying to figure out if Jesus really said this or that in the Gospels, here...the guy is alive, well, and not talking about these details. Apparently.

http://www.farecompare.com/flights/Manchester-MHT/Baltimore-BWI/market.html
Airlines with Flights Serving Manchester, New Hampshire to Baltimore, Maryland
Fare Compare's flight data shows that the following airlines have scheduled flights where both airports Manchester and Baltimore can connect all the way through during the year using flights only on these airlines.

Air Canada United Airlines Delta Air Lines All Nippon Airways US Airways KLM Royal Dutch Airlines Northwest Airlines Air France Lufthansa German Airlines Continental Airlines ATA Airlines, Inc.Copa Airlines Southwest Airlines

:shrug: Would that have changed his ability to fly back for the vote?

Just because you don't agree doesn't make it not so. The person responsible for notifying the senators SAID EACH AND EVERY SENATOR WAS PERSONALLY NOTIFIED THE NIGHT BEFORE THE VOTE.

And why stop there Obama has the record for 128 times he skipped voting on bills. So to the senate website and check it out. Since you don't believe what people post. Cause only the Obama supporters tell the truth. Or do they.

that they were notified that the vote would take place the night before when Harry himself started out the morning saying this:



You're right I don't want to believe what people post.

Bad staffing? Congress sabotaging his campaign? It has to be somebody's fault he keeps missing votes. Because it's never never never his fault.

Damn, who is that like?

why isn't Obama in the loop?

Please.

Do not even go there.

Because that's your suggestion.

That Reid told his Leader Staff (not his Senate staff, he has two sets of folks who do his bidding) to SPECIFICALLY DISS OBAMA. To NOT TELL the guy--to FAKE HIM OUT. To leave him scrambling. And of course, once that happens, he sits down like a soft little 'kitty' and doesn't say a fucking word about how he got shafted. AWWWW. And that's who we want as our President? Someone who can get beaten to a pulp by a mild mannered Mormon from Nevada???

Jesus. What a lame and pathetic construct. How .... NAIVE!!!

Tin Foil on Sale at Safeway.

Not a peep in committee, no effort made to amend or kill it, no floor statement, nothing until after the vote was taken...

Instead, he FAILED to vote and now points the finger at those who did. Failure to lead. Plain and simple.

And he campaigned before and after the debate, with no apparent downtime. The only thing I'm certain he missed was the vote.

Perhaps someone has a complete schedule?

to opinion for or against rather than fact. My thanks to those who knew where to look up the Senate record. Those of you who insist that Obama was notified the night before, a primary source would be appreciated.

If I may add my own opinion: Rush back to cast a vote against something that's going to pass with a large majority or

Prepare myself physically and mentally for an important event that may make me president so I can clean up this mess.


Me, I would have stayed in New Hampshire.

...if he didn't want to be bothered about voting he should have chosen another line of work. He has no right to say how he "would have voted" or that he is opposed to the amendment...those protestations ring hollow. He is inexperienced and his voting record proves it.

I only care that he didn't vote yes and IMO that is precisely why * ahem * some folks are trying so desperately to marginalize that truism.

Obama has the high road on this regardless of what poo is being lobbed at him, and this tag-team attack on Obama's strength is vintage Rove.