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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) |
cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:20 AM Original message |
When it comes to politics, I prefer realism over fantasy. |
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rucky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:22 AM Response to Original message |
1. Product vs. Process |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:27 AM Response to Reply #1 |
3. I don't know what unreal things you're talking about. |
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rucky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 01:45 PM Response to Reply #3 |
34. the old discussion of ends vs means |
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rucky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 01:44 PM Response to Reply #1 |
33. wrong place |
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R_M (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:27 AM Response to Original message |
2. Very true. Change in civil societies comes slowly. |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:29 AM Response to Original message |
4. It also matters in what arena you are being realistic... |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:31 AM Response to Reply #4 |
6. those are good points. |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:41 AM Response to Reply #6 |
10. Another example would be the War on (Some) Drugs... |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:08 PM Response to Reply #6 |
23. Another example would be energy policy... |
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Adelante (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:29 AM Response to Original message |
5. Agree |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:32 AM Response to Reply #5 |
7. then give it |
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Adelante (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:47 AM Response to Reply #7 |
12. Okay, did |
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polichick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:34 AM Response to Original message |
8. On the other hand, people want to be able to choose between... |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:37 AM Response to Reply #8 |
9. Yes, well |
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polichick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:46 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. Currently, it's too hard to tell Dems from Republicans... |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:50 AM Response to Reply #11 |
14. sorry, I'm not big on the performance of Congress, but |
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polichick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:55 AM Response to Reply #14 |
17. Sad that you think it's acceptable for ANY Dems to act as... |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:04 PM Response to Reply #17 |
21. I didn't say that, and I'm sure you know that. How sad that you're |
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polichick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:09 PM Response to Reply #21 |
24. I think you should read my responses more carefully... |
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riqster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:49 AM Response to Original message |
13. The only quibble I have is how we define 'practical'. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:52 AM Response to Reply #13 |
15. Sure, I didn't mean to suggest that we shouldn't strive |
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riqster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:02 PM Response to Reply #15 |
20. I just wanted to make it explicit. nt |
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John Q. Citizen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:20 PM Response to Reply #15 |
42. In politics, as in any negotiation, you always ask for more than you think you can get. |
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Armstead (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:53 AM Response to Original message |
16. It's really a matter of degree -- and pragmatism vs. inertia |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:05 PM Response to Reply #16 |
22. You seem to have an unusual defiinition of pragamatism. n/t |
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Armstead (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:14 PM Response to Reply #22 |
26. No I am looking for a real definition of pragmatism |
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bettyellen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 04:13 PM Response to Reply #26 |
55. you have a much better grasp on reality than the OP does.... |
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ruggerson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 11:55 AM Response to Original message |
18. Agreed, but the far more important question isi |
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riqster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:01 PM Response to Reply #18 |
19. Behind the scenes, DK works to compromise |
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ruggerson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:13 PM Response to Reply #19 |
25. It behooves many of us |
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John Q. Citizen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:31 PM Response to Reply #25 |
46. One has to also question what our candidates actually want.? I think a lot |
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Enrique (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:21 PM Response to Original message |
27. watch Bernie Sanders explain this to an impeachment advocate |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:33 PM Response to Reply #27 |
28. heh. I don't need to. |
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zalinda (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:35 PM Response to Original message |
29. While your observations may have been true |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:58 PM Response to Reply #29 |
31. A few points: Who said anything about Clinton being a savior? |
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zalinda (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 01:22 PM Response to Reply #31 |
32. Just a reminder |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 01:50 PM Response to Reply #32 |
36. another reminder: that was one point among several |
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John Q. Citizen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:34 PM Response to Reply #29 |
47. LBJ transformed people out of poverty in one term. He made a huge impact on |
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Jade Fox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 12:38 PM Response to Original message |
30. These are unique times..... |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 01:46 PM Response to Original message |
35. Deleted sub-thread |
TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 01:58 PM Response to Original message |
37. Kicked and recommended. NT |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:03 PM Response to Original message |
38. I agree, but it's all a question of where one draws the various lines |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:10 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. true enough. |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:52 PM Response to Reply #40 |
49. Guilty as charged |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 03:35 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. We all do that at times. n/t |
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MLFerrell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:10 PM Response to Original message |
39. "Bloody revolution is not the answer to the problems we face." |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:13 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. OK, here's how I take it. |
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MLFerrell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:26 PM Response to Reply #41 |
43. Advocating violence is against DU rules. |
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Enrique (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:28 PM Response to Reply #43 |
44. if you're afraid to be banned from DU |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:30 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. LOL! |
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MLFerrell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 02:48 PM Response to Reply #44 |
48. A few questions: |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 03:34 PM Response to Reply #48 |
51. I didn't say anything about you leading a revolution. I laughed |
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MLFerrell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 03:43 PM Response to Reply #51 |
53. I didn't reply to you. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 03:45 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. Sorry about that. n/t |
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MGKrebs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 03:17 PM Response to Original message |
50. Pragmatism is just idealism on a different time scale. |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 04:22 PM Response to Original message |
56. let me try again, since the subthread was deleted. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 04:28 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. No. It doesn't. |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 04:31 PM Response to Reply #57 |
58. but what do you consider reality, and who do you think |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 04:45 PM Response to Reply #58 |
59. some political realities are listed in my OP |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 05:02 PM Response to Reply #59 |
60. but if only elections have an impact on congressional leadership, |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 05:24 PM Response to Reply #60 |
61. who said anything about blame? |
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Niccolo_Macchiavelli (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 06:35 PM Response to Reply #61 |
62. War that simple... |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 07:27 PM Response to Reply #62 |
64. well, the corporations don't own my house |
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MGKrebs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 08:07 PM Response to Reply #62 |
68. I doubt it. The "system" is getting pretty good at identifying |
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MGKrebs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 06:43 PM Response to Reply #61 |
63. We need both. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 07:30 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. Well, |
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bettyellen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 07:51 PM Response to Reply #65 |
66. weren't you arguing that fighting the good fight was a waste of time? no impact on congresss... |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 08:03 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. er, no. certainly not. and if you're going to make accusations |
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bettyellen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 08:30 PM Response to Reply #67 |
69. you forgot POST 50 "Not rooted in reality: That activists can have an impact on the leadership" |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 09:00 PM Response to Reply #69 |
71. or for the sake of all that's honest |
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bettyellen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 09:17 PM Response to Reply #71 |
74. fantasists believe that pragmatic people will do what activists do. |
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Bonobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 08:35 PM Response to Original message |
70. Cali(fornia) Dreaming. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 09:09 PM Response to Reply #70 |
72. lol |
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penguin7 (962 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Nov-04-07 09:10 PM Response to Original message |
73. You only have one vote |
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DeepModem Mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-05-07 01:01 AM Response to Original message |
75. A courageous post, cali! nt |
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Perry Logan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-05-07 07:03 AM Response to Original message |
76. Realistically, the Republicans are screwed. |
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bread_and_roses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-05-07 08:11 AM Response to Original message |
77. How I love these little DU lectures; I read at least one a day! |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-05-07 08:26 AM Response to Reply #77 |
78. of course, my OP had nothing to do with |
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