General Electric's SNL & Obama on Hillary: "She's a witch!" A little misogynistic?

Not that I'll get much agreement, but I don't think it was such a great idea for Obama to appear in this one.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/11/sweet_blog_column_obama_opens.html

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The five minute, 17-second skit Obama was in started with SNL cast members playing Hillary and Bill hosting a Halloween party at their home in Chappaqua, NY., a get together with the Democratic presidential field to unwind after last Tuesday's debate.

The Clinton character is wearing a bride’s costume with the joke like this: various cast members are playing other Democratic contenders—John Edwards, Bill Richardson, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd. Edwards compliments her on her “witch” costume and so does the Dodd player.

Then along comes a tall, slim, man in a big Barack Obama mask. He takes it off and…it’s Obama.

"So you dressed as yourself" asks "Clinton."

“Well you know Hillary, I have nothing to hide. I enjoy being myself,” Obama said. "I'm not going to change who I am just because it is Halloween."

Those lines were fraught with heavy political subtext, given the shot Obama hit Clinton with day about being calculating.

"And may I say you make a lovely bride?' says Obama

"Bill" can't help himself. "She's a witch!" prompting "Hillary" to complain.

more...

:kick:

no thanks

She wants EVERYTHING both ways. So do her supporters.

Obama about everything they can think of like his do....I can Hillary credit, two things she has for sure that Obama will never have class and character.

ahead, if she's the nominee.:toast:

there are MANY Hillary supporters who flame and slur Obama.

They sure do! And for you to say Obama doesn't have class and character shows you don't have very good judgement.

It's unfortunate that people buy into such stereotypes.

Like Iraq war advocate Hillary Clinton -- Bush's best friend at Shock & Awe time, and blank check signer of war appropriations ever since.

Let's not hide HIllary's rottenness behind any sentimentality about "strong, assertive women." That won't wash.

To go to every thread and post about how calling a woman a "witch" isn't sexist, just so long as you don't like her. Can we please fix American health care already? Somebody's medication is apparently too expensive...

Typical of Clinton and her supporters. I'm glad the last debate AND her "damage control" AFTER the debte made that very clear.

Just as strong, assertive men say "I'm your man."

...is going to be called sexest or misogynistic? Seriously, give me a break.

SNL has made fun of EVERY major politician since the 70's. Hillary is not immure from this.

But calling her a "witch" certainly is. I'm sure even you would agree.

Yes, I definitely took note of the misogyny. But it's pretty typical of popular entertainment so most people won't.

Watch how misogyny is ignored/excused in a way that other forms of bigotry will never be on this thread.

:shrug:

A caricature of Obama as a lofty speaker whose real ideas don't match his rhetoric is not racist.

A caricature of Obama as a fried chicken eating idiot is racist.

Obama's ideas DO match his rhetoric.

Secondly, a caricature of Hillary as a calculating phony candidate is not misogynistic.

I don't know how any sane person can't see the misogyny there.

If the dress fits, it's not misogynistic.

"Nice witch costume", was the line. It was a costume party, everyone was in a costume (except Obama).

It was actually much more insulting to the candidate characters who were portrayed as saying that line, than to Hillary.

You're right and I agree with your post. :hi:

The summary in the OP seems to suggest she was called a witch.

I watched it live last night, but I honestly don't remember if "Bill's" line was "No, she's a witch" or "No, it's a witch costume". His line was in response to Obama saying "Nice bride costume"; which in itself was based on the whole set-up of 2 or 3 of the other characters having said "Nice witch costume" during the course of the skit.

By the time it got to "Bill's" line, you already saw it coming a mile away, so it wasn't particularily memorable.

I just don't think any of this is worth all the uproar. SNL rags on everybody and insults everybody -- including their audience's intelligence. NO ONE came off well in that skit, but it was much more insulting to Edwards, Biden, Dodd, Kucinich and Gravel (ESPECIALLY Gravel) than it was to either of the Clintons. The Clinton characters came off more like Peg and Ed Bundy than anything else, imho. Sort of your standard married-couple-type caricature with a political twist.

sw

nt

yourself and decide on the basis of that that there's something to be offended about? Whatever happened to going to the source material to make your OWN analysis? Aren't "liberals" supposed to be all about seeking out the facts and doing their own critical thinking?

Did you give any consideration to the possibility that the secondary source you read might have her own axe to grind?

Saw story on multiple sites while reviewing the news this morning. Found detailed story. Posted it here. Asked whether people thought it was misogynistic. Anybody question the accuracy of the link I posted? Nope. Anyone think she wasn't called a witch? Nope (except someone who was relying solely on the primary source). My reliance on secondary sources seems justified. I guess I could have applied for a grant to investigate the story in greater depth, but I figured I had done due diligence for a chat board posting.

Whatever. Carry on.

A little reading never hurt anyone.

Ever been to a costume party? "Nice dinosaur costume." "No, he's Gumby."

Probably too subtle for you...

I see your point. And another bad thing about SNL is you say Gumby and I immediately think of Eddie Murphy.

nt

"Witch" has always been used as a method of silencing women of power. It's like "dyke" in a way. Any time a woman has power of any kind, is aggressive and does what she has to (or basically behaves in a fashion that is lauded when men do it), she gets called a witch. It says something about our society that we are so afraid of independent, powerful women that we have to constantly cut them down with the "W" word, to put them in their place. Far be it from me to defend HRC, but I find the language used about her interesting--people have referred to her "cackle" a lot and it bothers me. It's especially disturbing when you take into account the popular perception of what a witch is--evil, frightening, conniving, ugly, makes pacts with the Devil, etc. This is what most people mean when they say "witch".

This is why many Wiccan and Pagan women, particularly Dianics, have been trying to reclaim the word. This is why I use it to describe myself (as an aside, my screen name is a Romani word derived from Armenian that means "witch"). It's a way to reclaim the notion of women's power. The healer, the cunning woman, the counselor--this is what the "witch" really is.

One thing to ask yourself: why is one of the only folkloric images of a powerful woman one that is scary?

thank you. :)

I do wish Chovexani would post this on its own. It's well worth reading.

I can't speak to the skit itself, because I didn't see it (have not had a TV since I moved), but it's good fodder for thought.

She wasn't a witch, but people kept saying she was. That's pretty much like real life. No matter what she does, people assume she has evil intentions. It's not fair, but it's true, and it was kind of funny.

SNL is SATIRE.

It was SATIRIZING the portrayal of Clinton as a witch. No matter what she does -- e.g. dress as a bride -- there are those who will see her as / call her a witch.

For pity's sake.

Jeez. If Hillary wants to run for president, she's open to satire, criticism, etc. and for anyone to play the misogyny card is making a mistake IMO.

It was an attempt to "satirize" her attempts to disguise her "true" nature. The skit is hardly pro-Hillary. See the summary in the OP. Obama is the genuine article who is comfortable with himself. Hillary is the shape-shifter who will do anything to win. Note it's her husband, the man who knows her best of all those present, who protests at the end that "She's a witch!"

Those lines were fraught with heavy political subtext, given the shot Obama hit Clinton with day about being calculating.
Obama is the genuine article who is comfortable with himself.

I actually thought it was self-deprecating humour, making him look like a big old dork, wearing a suit at a Hallowe'en party because he's a humourless twit ... which he wouldn't be, because he was making fun of himself for doing it ...

Damn, humour is complex stuff, eh?

And that can be a problem, given that everything happens in a context that lends meaning to everything said. (As Joe Biden's detractors, for instance, refuse to acknowledge.)

It might be funny if I tell the joke How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?* to a friend, but not if Bill O'Reilly does it on television.

The Clinton-Obama skit might be funny to a roomful of Clinton supporters in private where they can laugh at fun being poked at their "girl", but not in public where they know that too many people don't think see a joke, they see the representation of reality they're fed.

Blame it on Lorne Michaels and his Canadian sensibility. We just do satire more than you guys do, and are more used to fun being poked at everyone and everything.

Carolyn Parrish was a Canadian MP who walked out of a meeting with some US govt representatives in February 2003, where Canada's position on Iraq was discussed (she had previously called the invaders the "coalition of the idiots"), and was caught on tape saying "Damn Americans… I hate those bastards." Anybody with a grain of honesty acknowledged that she was referring to the representatives of the Bush administration at the meeting, but a huge storm of righteous indignation ensued.

She then went on a national comedy program and stuck pins in a George Bush doll. A lot of Canadians claimed to be offended by that too ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztBGS74ZVpI

That all said, I dunno. I think Clinton's laugh is genuine and fun, myself. To me, it was the stereotype of Clinton being mocked, but it's much in the eye of the beholder, and satire can indeed be a minefield.

___________________________________
* That's not funny.

Re: your comment: "That all said, I dunno. I think Clinton's laugh is genuine and fun, myself," if her laugh is genuine, why did she stop doing it as soon as it was scrutinized by some? If it was real, she'd keep doing it because that's who she is. But she stopped. I see that as proof that it was a strategy-not a genuine laugh.

depending on his audience, surely Hillary is allowed to control her laughter when the Corporate Media decides to try to Gore her for it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3680223&mesg_id=3680488

depending whom they're speaking to (it's not a sudden thing). Hillary immediately stopped her "cackle" as soon as she saw it didn't get good reviews.

I might just suspect that if one had a completely unimportant and irrelevant personal characteristic that was drawing overblown attention and distracting from what actually was important and relevant, one might decide to eliminate it.

A large black mole in the middle of one's forehead might be similar. Natural and real and part of who one is, but probably not unwise to have it removed if one is planning to be in the public eye ...

Nothing natural about that.

I've got a Clinton booster not liking my positive response to the satire of Clinton, and a Clinton detractor not liking my positive response to Clinton's laugh ... a rock and a hard place? Or just a little evidence of the purely partisan nature of negative responses to both?

then why did you guys let Dominec Troiano join the Guess Who? Like that was ever going to work.

:-)

No accounting for them.

Yeesh, next it will be that Nickleback-hating thing! And then Céline Dion ...

American woman, get away from me!

Because if you haven't, you're really just talking out of your ass.

I think I'll pass.

Doesn't that seem odd to you? I mean, are you also in support of the crazy fundie bastards who want Harry Potter pulled off the shelves, yet have never even opened the book?

nt

I think the writers were not mocking the view of Hillary as a witch, but actually endorsing it. I could be wrong, but it wasn't obvious to me that the skit was meant to critique that view.

If Hillary wins and every criticism of her is attributed to being sexist because she is a freaking woman I will simply SCREAM!

If someone called Margaret Thatcher a witch do you think anybody is screaming sexism?

Ugh. This woman is running to be the most powerful person in the world. Crying foul over things perceived to be sexist is pathetic. This is embarrassing.

SNL has been doing this stuff for, how long? 30 years? 35 years? Seriously, get over it. It's exactly this kind of silly, uptight political correctness that turns moderates and independents away from the Democratic Party and makes multi-millionaires out of fools like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. Lighten up. Conan OBrian used to to it all the time w/Bill Clinton. Sometimes I would get annoyed, but I grin and bear it because it's just a comedy. Would you prefer a panel of politically correct screeners to censor every comedy skit every comedian does anywhere in the U.S.? Please, just lighten up.

Let's lighten up around here.

wow. how predictable. and a massive pile 'o feigned indignation i've rarely seen

I'm no spring chicken, but I outgrew that a LONG time ago. Bunch of wannabe stars sucking up to conservative New Yorkers like Donald Trump, trying to get movie deals for their superficial "characters"...that's not comedy, it's desperation. Of course they're a medium for GE/Republican propaganda.

It was actually kind of light and silly but I'll admit, it gave me a few laughs (Gravel in a straight jacket and Kucinich getting a thumbs up from Bill).

Yeah, much of it was the typical Bill Clinton as a horny guy ripping on his wife bit...but the word "witch" was more in reference to it being a Halloween costume party. Obama's appearance was clever. And his "Life on Saturday Night" line came off very well.

Seriously, if people think her being called a 'witch' in a silly Halloween skit is bad, well...you obviously are pretty thin skinned or have no freakin clue how bad a general election will be for her. I'm sure at this point, even Hillary can see those skits, laugh a little and roll her eyes.

Either way, this is a waste of time. After all, who even watches SNL anymore? I only checked the skit out and that too on youtube because of Obama's appearance.