Insider "Dem Polls" and even "RW Polls" say THE ISSUE will be IMMIGRATION!

Which Democrat has the best plan that ALL Dems can agree on?

Just like "Guns/Gays/Abortion" has been the Repugs GREATIST ISSUES in Elections Past...this one is on the Radar for Rudi/Repugs...but not so much mentioned by leading Dem Supporters.

RW is going to spin Dems as "soft" on Immigration (those "Evil Illegal Aliens stealing our jobs) to obfuscate that there are no REAL JOBS that have a LADDER UP for ANYONE in America, anymore. And, our DLC Dems are find with that "Spin" on the issue because that's what Clinton ran on..."Globilization and Nafta would allow us to compete with the Japanese (who were the equivalent of China Today) back when Clinton ran in the last Centure before Bushies Trashed it all and made "Supply Side/Goldilocks Economy their Faery Tale Story!

So..."Immigration" of "Illegal Aliens" will replace RACE/GUNS/GOD & GAYS ...for the Repugs.

WHAT ARE OUR DEMS GOING TO COUNTER WITH...when their OWN POLLING says "Illegal Immmigration" is the TOP ISSUE?

I'm not seeing Much from the Leading Candidates. Maybe their advocates can post their POSITION STATEMENTS on this THREAD for those of us who WANT TO KNOW how the Argument will go with the RIGHT WING REPUGS. :shrug:

the immigration situation at this point in time. I care about Iraq, Iran, and now Pakistan.

who will do "the jobs that Amurkans just won't do" for peanuts?

:eyes:

Oil is soaring/manipulating/matriculating to $100 bbl.

We have endless war in two countries and a possible third was on the way.

No one wants to pay a living wage in America anymore.

Health care in America is a disaster.

We have an enormous deficit and the rich have stolen hundreds of billions if not trillions from us.

It's all the fault of one group of people - the wetbacks!

Have you ever heard of anything more insane in your life?

n/t

That Spitzer so inopportunely strode into. The single most important response is to make the big picture, the conspiracy of the corporations and the two governments, and the remedies of going after the employers and the economic problems behind the human pressure, paramount and exclusive in the discussion.

Not walls, hate of immigrants, fear, driver's licenses, state referenda of various sorts, but solving the big problem. Unlike the drug war it is more doable, more necessary and the cost in lives and livelihood on both sides of the border(we are only talking Mexico of course which IS the main argument for getting a brain), more opposed by big money, is to tackle the system which obviously is to the personal benefit of pols on both sides of the issue. That is, capitalizing on public rage while INSURING the flow of cheap labor. The fence is the fraud between the frauds, the silliness of the sucker who pays double to the crooks let off the hook.

Nothing is dumber than acting spiteful and self-righteous and hurting only the victims of a sordid and deliberate policy of providing slave labor for our corporate landlords.

I fear also that this is an issue that could sink our candidate. How do we frame a rational response without risking suicide to our party?

Taking note of the risks on both sides of the debate, I think our candidate should say "no" to drivers licenses for illegals but also say that this is part of a much bigger issue and that issue has not been addressed, not by the Bush administration nor by the Congress. We need an overall, comprehensive plan for immigration reform, period!

The films are now stored in republican vaults from last week's debate...

Having found themselves in a hole, they would be smart to stop digging.

is the immediate controversial nowhere trap. To even include that in your stand on immigration is to take the poisoned knife into your flesh, to overshadow your larger approach.

it dares and maybe compels one to come up with a very hard and specific overall policy, as free from vagary and mush and unrealistic approaches as humanly possible. Generalities suffer when put in the balance with ONE specific case. That is Bush straw man territory. Straw is for burning, transforming to ash. They way to do that is to offer a challenging bold policy to end the gentleman's game that condemns Mexicans to seeing as necessary the risks of entering hostile territory to become low wage scabs and political footballs to further aid the top people abusing them. Go after the big abusers. They are few. Turn the rage against them and then watch the noise machine die to a whisper. Go after the government policies and build real trade agreements that would benefit the working people on both sides of the border.

Those crying we cannot afford it that we must have slave labor do not deliver anything to the peoples but threats and divisions and poverty and persecution and threats to rights and liberties- on both sides of the border. If they are going to attack you anyway why weakly cut your losses and try to fend off the straw man and the straw media talk? You might as well spell out the big policy, a partnership for labor and prosperity that does not mean a game where only the fat cats on both sides of the border win. If it means that the jealousies and resentments still exist because the strong always will have the most to give to the weak let's at least tackle it like we ARE the strong and not the fearful,and raging short-sighted haters ready to be trimmed by the conmen.

The details of the policy should be simple, concrete and communicable. Which means this is as far as I go. To put the rage temporarily where it belongs- until the frauds cry uncle and let it go- is to point out the effectiveness of sanctions on the employers. To solve the whole problem by removing the causes of this mass migration and not be a stupid Great Wall of America that only profits the profiteers- again- that cannot work against the movement of any entire people- and that is a toy symbol for demagogic, cynical politicians who also wish to protect the slave labor principle. One way to end the immigration is simply to enforce the higher wages and benefits of all employed workers while clamping down on the business that hire illegals. We cynically collect taxes from these "illegals" somehow. Wage guarantees should be just as possible. But the burden must fall on employers, not small communities and American workers where it has been solely dropped as an outrageous aid to the cheap labor system.

Refocus the rage. Humanize the workers on both sides of the border. Point out the villains. Set the policies to rectify the cheap labor abuse and help Mexico prosper along with us. Screw the GOP talking points. Often and hardcore.

I was looking over the poll numbers and some issues seem common. A vast majority of folks think that those already here should be granted some sort of path to citizenship, deporting 12 million illegal immigrants won't work, border security needs to be increased, and employers hiring illegal immigrants should be punished. A plan like that would gain us votes over the hard line some of the Repugs are taking.

It's what the majority of folks want. If Repugs have a hard line stance then they easily lose Florida and Nevada. Texas might even become more competitive.

I think the GOP approach to immigration should be sufficiently ugly that it will prove to be less than an asset as they offer it up as a wedge issue.

Look at all the ugly stuff that went over big in past elections. Willie Horton, Swift Boat liars smearing a war hero, to name just two.

I hate to say this, but it seems like "ugly" sells and the Repubs are past masters at this game. They've been so successful in the past, they will surely do it again on immigration. Wait and see.

And all of our candidate's pleading for rationality and just plain humanity will not count. People will go to the polls in droves to vote their deepest, darkest fears, all stirred up by the Repub Smear Machine. It's depressing.

That's the only issue that would cause me to vote Republican.

And the number of undocumented workers who have crossed the border under the Bush Administration and the Republican Congress from 2001 to 2007 makes the border crossing under Clinton's years look tame.

The G.O.P. bashed immigrants in 2006 and wound up losing because of it. Ask Congressman Hayworth if you think otherwise.

Karl Rove understood that immigrant bashing was a losing issue for the G.O.P. and was the biggest supporter of Bush's Immigration Reform because the GOP's shrinking coalition requires Latino voters to continue with majorities. Bush garnered a lot of Latino vote in 2000. The Immigrant "hot button" in 2006 drove millions of Republican Latinos back to the Democratic Party and they showed up at the polls. Karl Rove was right and the Republicans in Congress were wrong.

Mel Martinez, who was made RNC Chair to stop the bleeding of Latinos away from the GOP finally resigned because he could not tone down the self-defeating rhetoric against Latinos and immigrant bashing by members of his party.

I've read enough of your posts, KoKo01, to know that this, immigration, is a big issue with you personally.

The G.O.P. are not in any position to attack Democrats on immigration and if they do, it will be to their own detriment. Mitt Romney can't even use this issue against Rudy within the Republican Primaries, because the G.O.P. leadership knows it's a losing proposition nationally.

If you don't believe me, ask J.D. Hayworth, who went from winning elections with over 60% to losing in '06 after making Immigration "the issue" carrying only 46% of the votes.

talk shows, Radio and TV. The number of Liberals becoming Independent
should give our party concern. They will will make a horrendous mistake
if they think an Independent Liberal wants some mealy mush in the center.
They have left the party often out of disgust and hopelessness.

Come the next election, they may vote--or may stay home. No longer
have the committment to a party.

Today the Democrats will simply add to the frustration of many .
The Democrats will worship their Corporate Masters and kick the
working class in the teeth. Pass the Peru Free Trade Deal.
Not a presidential candidate has pushed the Democrats in Congress
to show some wisdom and have no more deals for a while. If they\
cannot influence their own colleagues who can they influence?
I do not want to hear from any candidate"I voted against it."
Why was this not a serious enough issue that Pres. Candidates
pressure the congress (House and Senate.)


Just because a Liberal goes Independent, --this does not mean
they are seeking a mushy center.

It has everything to do with homeland security (in many ways) and nothing whatsoever to do with racism ~ a country that has lost control of its borders has a dysfunctional government and zero security. Dems won't have a prayer if they don't get this.

by repeating everything the repukes say

Travel around the country and talk to people in diners and other gathering places ~ it's an enormous issue on both sides of the aisle.

There are those Republicans who are all for corporate welfare on the backs of citizens, and there are those Dems who think it's some kind of crime to protect our borders ~ but the vast majority of Americans care about homeland security in a big way and want something done to solve this problem.

IMO, that's a reason to fight harder, and not give up. YMMV

That mindset doesn't help the party ~ and it'll lose the election.

We're talking about immigration and the repukes position on the issue and the dems position. Some
"progressives" will take the repuke position.

You can't get around the labels long enough to THINK about the issue. We've been down this path before...

I think you are having false memories

The Dems will come up with some sort of middle-ground position. It's an obvious BIG wedge issue, so I can't imagine they're not working overtime trying to figure out where people really are on it.

If we are lucky, the extreme RW and talk radio will force the pugs into an off-center position on the topic.

will stem illegal immigration real quick.

anything to avoid the real issue: THE FREAKING WAR.

down-turn will only exacerbate the issue.

i acutally think a depression will make america a less attractive destination for illegal immigration.

though our collapse will worsen latin america's woes.

Just received a four-page, full-color mailing from my Congressman saying, among other immigration-related things, that "homeland security begins with border security" and that he "opposes any Washington compromises that reward illegal immigration." Two things I very much appreciate ~ it almost makes me forgive yesterday's YEA vote.

at least in Virginia:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3058062