Will the change we so desperately need come from outside the two major parties??

This thread will probably get pulled (though I don't think it should in a country that is, at least theoretically, about free speech), but I have had the strangest feeling in the past few months that something else was going to happen before the election, something that would change the whole picture ~ just a feeling, nothing concrete. Still, that's part of the reason I haven't signed on with one of our candidates, in addition to my get-out-the-vote effort and the fact that my state has a late primary.

Tonight Larry King interviewed (separately) Lou Dobbs and Robert Redford, two very different guys both involved in work meant to open the eyes of Americans. Redford was there to talk about his film, Lions for Lambs, and didn't come right out and say that the change we're looking for would come from outside the two parties, but imo hinted at it ~ Dobbs said that he believes there will be some big surprises in the coming year and that a leader will emerge who is not part of the Republican or Democratic organizations. He actually sounded a bit like a prophet saying such a thing, but it really resonated with what I've been feeling.


Anyone else have the sense that there's a whole other thing just around the corner?

The two parties are more entrenched (and better financed) than they've ever been.

moment are two parts of some bigger corporatized thing. I see what is happening to Kucinich, and not happening to bush and cheney, and I just don't know if we can see a big enough change to answer things like global warming, renewable fuels, and the entrenched forces in DC. Maybe Gore will step in and save the day. I just don't know.

It is wide open and no one from either party has stepped up to fill the void. This without the economy hitting the low point, which will occur in summer 2008.

Parties do step in... but Americans have a nasty habit of eating those that call for reform.
The 2000 election is a classic example of this. After Gore "lost", what did American Progressives do:

1. Add a plank to the Democratic Party platform to abolish the electoral college?
   
2. Insist that a standard system for counting votes be introduced?
   
3. Change campaign tactics and make sure the 2004 nominee would avoid the same mistakes.
   
4. Blame Nader, and discourage others from making a 3rd party.
   

Yes. A 3rd party is desperately needed. However, American liberals have been trained to vote in a certain way - and they are loathe to go against their programming.

This is because American Liberals, against all mathematical evidence, believe it is possible to strategically vote. (aka "Wasted Vote Myth.") Until progressives challenge this assumption and vote for 3rd parties, we are stuck in a duopoly with the illusion of choice.

The Whigs will always be a force on the American political scene

when a third party can truly emerge and bump out one, if not the two parties

Given what is going on with the pugs, that is a very good candidate to go away

And given the strangehold of the Conservatives on the Dems... we may see the Pugs be replaced a progresive party

Yes I know some will poopoo this... mostly the usual suspects, but US History supports this theory

In some ways the pubbies are the new whigs who are about to go away... and the dems will go back
to their very traditional conservative fountains where they were...oh in mid 19th century

I also share the feelign that something coming down the pike... and not necessary a messiah... actually a nightmare.

But that is a whole different story.

it will have to

won't ALLOW it to come from within. It could come from within, of course. You could have Kucinich vs Paul in the GE.

I don't think the power establishment in either party will allow that, so change may indeed have to come from the outside.

Will voters allow the party power structures to dictate the course, or will they take charge and vote for change in their primaries?

What do you think?

I wrote the OP before falling asleep late last night and I'm happy to see the thread is still here ~ thank-you to the moderators for that.

After ten months of betrayal by those we worked to put into office, it seems that the base of the party is left with some pretty big decisions. And it's not just the Dem base; the entire country has been betrayed ~ first by the Bush campaign machine, then by the Supreme Court, the Bush administration, and finally by Congressional Democrats.

Today my thoughts are with Dennis Kucinich, who is trying to do the right thing on behalf of the American people, and on behalf of the Constitution he keeps tucked in his pocket wherever he goes. It will be interesting to see what happens next, and who might yet appear on the horizon to lead us out of this hell...