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Slate: The Difference Between Obama and Hillary in Iowa.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:15 PM
Original message
Slate: The Difference Between Obama and Hillary in Iowa.


Innocence vs. ExperienceThe difference between watching Obama and Clinton in Iowa.
By John Dickerson
Posted Wednesday, Nov. 7, 2007, at 12:19 PM ET

CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa— I've seen Barack Obama's show. I've seen the crowds. I've seen the audacity. I've seen the hope. I knew what to expect Tuesday night at his event at Kirkwood Community College in Cedar Rapids, and yet after it was over I was still impressed. He was funny and passionate, and he connected with his big audience. When he left the stage, the room was on its feet and chanting with him. Nothing like that happened during the two days I followed Hillary Clinton. Her performances were solid and her audiences were enthusiastic, but they didn't interrupt her with applause the way they did with Obama.

A talented candidate works with the rhythm of an audience, taking it through a range of emotions—humor, passion, and anger. If the candidate does it right, the room feels more committed at the end of the event than during the opening jokes. That's what it was like when Obama spoke.

"Why isn't he killing her?" asked a colleague after Obama's hour-long visit. It's the persistent question for his campaign. He wows the crowds but lags in the polls everywhere but Iowa. One answer may lie in a question an Obama supporter asked the crowd before the senator arrived. Warming up the room, Linda Langston, a local politician, asked how many of the people there had never attended a caucus. It seemed like nearly half the room raised their hands. At the Clinton events, where the average age is at least 10 years older, every person I interviewed afterward offered a list of the candidates they'd supported in the caucuses during previous elections. This is the big question for the Obama campaign, which needs to do well in Iowa to survive: Can he lock in voters after they leave his rallies?

* snip *

After Obama spoke Wednesday morning in Bettendorf on the eastern edge of Iowa, Pam Schroder nodded with approval. A longtime secretary at the education agency where he delivered a policy speech on helping the middle class, she liked what she heard. She hasn't decided whom to vote for yet, but she's narrowed it down to Clinton and Obama. "I'm leaning toward Barack," she said, explaining that she wanted to hear Clinton in person, too, before finally making up her mind. She's taking the process very seriously. Though she's voted in several elections, she's never participated in a caucus. If Obama wins in Iowa, it will be because he was able to capture people just like Schroder.

more at http://www.slate.com/id/2177639/
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Or, about 15 points.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. more like 3-points in Iowa, well within the MOE
Edited on Wed Nov-07-07 04:37 PM by AtomicKitten
but it doesn't sound nearly as snarky without the exaggeration

on edit: http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/11/poll_statistically_tied_democratic_race_in_iowa.php
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Keep on a-dreamin'.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. IOW, Obama attracts the politically naive
while HRC gets those who have actual political experience
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Is that
good or bad?
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. He attracts principled idealists. She attracts those who defend the established system.
The choice is pretty clear.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. indeed it is
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. "Change we can believe in"
Whoever came up with that solution to claiming the "change" mantle gets a prize. It's the perfect phrase for Obama.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. More dems think HRC is the real agent of change in this race
It may be the perfect phrase for Obama, but dems are looking at HRC for change, not Obama
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Perhaps for those who are not paying real close attention, she is the agent of change. Slogans do
not make the candidate--altho they obviously can help--especially if work, like this one.

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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I think it's HILLarious that an Obama supporter would complain about slogans
That's all Obama has
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. He is an inspiring speaker
I remember how wowed I was at his speech at the last Dem convention. There is a lot to be said for being able to get the nation behind you in moving us forward. It will be important in the coming years when we will have some hard decisions to make.
I am just not really thrilled with any of the top three candidates policies just yet. I want perfection and that isn't going to happen.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. I have pined for Gore, but have lost hope that that will happen.
Sigh.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. VERY interesting! I couldhave done without the reference to the "pantsuit." nt
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. Slate a piece of turd owned by the Washington Post
I would never under and circumstances go back to even read their crap. They allow republican hate festers.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. They should love Hillary, lots of her buddies work for Slate:
Slate's focus and editorial slant is politically liberal, as seen in choice of columnists, choice of and position on topics, and featured cartoon, Doonesbury. During the 2004 U.S. presidential campaign, a significant majority of staff and contributors supported Democratic challenger John Kerry.<3>

A more fine-grained analysis puts Slate slightly to the left of The New Republic, but still to the right of Salon.com or The Nation. It includes many voices of the Clintonian / Democratic Leadership Council / neoliberal point of view. These include two of its bloggers: Mickey Kaus, whose favorite subjects include welfare reform and the potential for a future candidate from either party to reap major political gains by taking a law-and-order stance on immigration issues; and Bruce Reed, who was President Clinton's domestic policy adviser, and is current president of the Democratic Leadership Council. Jack Shafer, one of its top editors, has stated that he has voted for the Libertarian Party candidate for President in every election since he became eligible to vote. (One unusual feature of the magazine is that it explicitly states its staff's biases, going so far as to publish the presidential votes of individual staff members and writers<4>.)

Slate frequently publishes columns that advocate a neoclassical view of economics, for example articles by professors Paul Krugman, Steven Landsburg, and Tim Harford, who although perhaps classifiable as liberal, are still part of the economic establishment and have each done significant research work.

On the occupation of Iraq, Slate has taken a "liberal hawk" perspective. This viewpoint is embodied in the frequent contributions of Christopher Hitchens, William Saletan, Michael Kinsley, Anne Applebaum, and others. Timothy Noah is the only Slate staffer who initially opposed the U.S. invasion, and even he was persuaded to abandon his relatively dovish position by Colin Powell<5>. Since the war began, however, the magazine has been increasingly critical of the war's handling, most strongly in Fred Kaplan's "War Stories" column.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slate_(magazine)
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've always kind of rolled my eyes a little at people who think the key to winning is new voters.
There seems to be an assumption that those who don't vote aren't making a conscious choice, like they've just been asleep and only need to be woken up before they start voting Dem in droves. But my experience as a pollster and with people I've just talked to is that people who don't vote don't vote by choice. I disagree with their decision, obviously, but their choices are considered and committed.

So this article is a very welcome surprise. I'm one of Clinton's natural supporters, although I don't support her, in that I don't quite get Obama (nor Edwards for that matter). I'm older and jaded and just don't see Obama as anything special--just a smarter version of the same old pols we've been seeing for generations. He's not particularly charming, in my eyes.

What I lack, and what I think a lot of Clinton's supporters lack, is the fresh eyes it takes to see that something special in Barack. But if he can get that many people charged up, maybe he's worth giving a third look to. Once Biden drops out, that is.

The part of the article that resurrects the old cynic in me is that line that wonders if all those supporters are actually going to go ahead and actually vote. History, again, suggests that people who haven't voted much in the past are those most likely not to follow through and actually vote for their candidate when the time comes. Humans are creatures of habit. Change is difficult. I hope we'll soon see those turned on citizens show up. I'd be more comfortable with Obama than I could ever be with Clinton, tho either would get my vote and enthusiastic support next year.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. thanks for your post
As a born and bred Californian, the caucus process is completely foreign to me. I think the article reflects that some neophytes are finding the process a bit unnerving. Sometimes I feel that we on the west coast have zero input in choosing the nominee.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. VERY true! The poor, minorities, women < 30, people < 30 have low turnout...nt
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surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. And Edwards win, by 3% when Dennis give over to Edwards
As he did before,
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