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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 07:54 PM
Original message
Dodd Campaign On Clinton's Honesty
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/11/08/455755.aspx

From NBC's Mark Murray
The Dodd campaign just released the following memo:

"The lack of candor with which Senator Clinton answered many of the questions posed to her at the recent Democratic Presidential Candidates' Debate in Philadelphia has had a significant impact on public perceptions of her 'honesty.' A Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll released today shows that only 34% of Americans view Senator Clinton as honest, while a plurality of Americans, 43%, rate Senator Clinton negatively for 'honesty.'

"These findings are all the more significant in light of the fact that public polling has repeatedly shown that Americans have said that 'honesty' and 'integrity' are the top characteristics they are looking for in a president, ahead of specific positions on issues including the war, the economy and other areas of national concern. An Associated Press-Ipsos poll conducted earlier this year found that 55% of Americans consider honesty, integrity and other personal 'values' characteristics the most important qualities they look for in a presidential candidate. These findings track an earlier survey from Associated Press-Ipsos showing similar findings.

"Simply put, voters tell us clearly that Senator Clinton is perceived to have least what they say they want most: honesty. As such, these findings pose a significant hurdle for Senator Clinton to overcome in a general election and are telling to the issue of 'electability.'"
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just curious but what would the Dodd campaign know about electability?
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Not a god damn thing
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. apparently you'r ignorant of the fact that Dodd
Edited on Fri Nov-09-07 12:33 PM by dionysus
has won quite a few elections in his day.. while hillary ran against two tomato cans (ie for practical purposes unopposed) in her career.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Oh, I don't know, he won election to the House two times and 4 times
to the Senate, way more than anyone you're supporting.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. LOL...but other than that...
what have the Romans ever done for us?
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. In CT.
My candidate at least has the benefit of working on two national campaigns.

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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Then Bob Shrum should Be Emperor
n/t
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. He Should Have Said Two Winning National Campaigns
Edited on Thu Nov-08-07 08:23 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
That excludes Shrummy...
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Bob Shrum lost though.
:evilgrin:

Though I will give him credit for a Kerry win.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I'll bet Dodd heard a few things about BCCI. Evidently Clintons never heard of it.
Edited on Thu Nov-08-07 08:06 PM by blm
Hmmmm....or were they rewarded for turning it invisible......
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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. why don't you answer the characterization, rather than attacking Dodd?
stadard operating procedure from the Clinton camp, I'm noticing.

In answer to your question - tell me an election Dodd has lost, please. Really, I don't know the answer to that. Do you?

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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Didn't He Attack Hillary First?
DSB
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Scary wavelength today.
But I think I am gonna call it a night

:toast:
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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. before you call it a night, why don't you tell us in what way Dodd is wrong
or not.

even in this post, you don't say anything substantial, simply that the wavelength is scary.

Dodd's question: Did HRC speak with a lack of candor in the debate? Why don't you tell us how she was candid and consistent? That is not a scary wavelength. That's called a conversation.

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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
22.  Dodd is wrong about electability as evidenced by polling.
Simple, though Hillary polled low on honesty, she scored quite well on a host of other qualities.

For Dodd to call her unelectable because of it is so much political gamemanship.

Coming from someone who did not even register on the poll he is referring to I find it amusing he is talking about electability.

"That is not a scary wavelength. That's called a conversation."

I was referring to DSB since we seem to be having the same thoughts.
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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. i understand now that you are talking about electability
but these poll numbers are not General Election results, and you surely understand the difference, historically and practically.

can you refute the honesty issue?

if you can, or better yet, if she can, then Dodd's argument is defeated.

if not, then there is genuine concern, current poll numbers notwithstanding.

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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. What is there to refute? Clinton does not score high on honesty with people.
I can say I think she is honest until I am blue in the face but that won't change her poll numbers.

The problem is she approaches too many questions as a policy wonk so she goes into all the possibilities. I like that my candidate has a firm grasp of the issues (and that is also reflected in polling) but on some things people do want a simple answer. She need to find a balance between showing what makes her special (her grasp of the issues) and answering those direct questions more simply.

That has been said of many a politician and I am looking forward to the NV debate to see what adjustments she has made.
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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. and that's not a serious, even fatal, general election problem?
I mean to say - it's fatal in the general election.

the poll numbers right now reflect name recognition more than anything, and that is in her favor, but how in the world can anyone think lack of trust in a candidate's honesty is not devastating?

serious question.

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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. He's attacking my candidate. Am I not allowed to respond in kind?
And while Dodd has done well in CT, this is his first national race with his standing the polls (national, state, whatever) somewhere 3 and insignificant.

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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. my point is that you did not address the 'honesty' criticism, you attacked the criticizer
even the swiftboater's opponents talked about how they swiftboat claims were wrong, not that the swiftboaters were losers, and well-financed smear artists. that characterization came AFTER the substance of the service argument was addressed.

if you criticize HRC, you are called swiftboaters, or unelectable losers. the criticism, the actual substance, is avoided. that's my point.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I am addressing the electability argument.
"If you criticize HRC, you are called swiftboaters, or unelectable losers. the criticism, the actual substance, is avoided. that's my point."

No, you wish for the attack on Hillary to stand unopposed and it bothers you her supporters here are able to blow the arguments away.

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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. the argument is that she is fast and loose with her opinions.
can you address that, and the specific instance of the debate last week?
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Advantage: Obama. I believe upwards of 65% of voters perceive him as "honest"
last poll I saw.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. and this honesty issue is only what alleged liberal democrats bring up
so if clinton is the nominee all the repubs have to do is recycle charges originally leveled by obama, dodd, and edwards.

please link to clinton calling dodd, obama, and edwards dishonest if you can. I'd like to read those.

Msongs
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. It's a fact a majority of voters perceive her as less than honest.
While a large majority of voters percieve Obama (for example) honest.

Look it up. Poll after poll backs it up.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. The Same Poll Shows Him With Zero Support
Chris Dodd -0



http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08dem.htm




What does the electorate think about him?
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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Well, gee, then he must be wrong about HRC...(sarcasm and NT)
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. After the Bush reign of Terror, I don't think anyone trusts any politician, and
that includes Edwards and BO!!
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. "Honesty" and "Integrity" polling
Edited on Fri Nov-09-07 02:18 PM by goodgd_yall
I would guess that Americans' idea of honesty and integrity has more to do with the kinds of actions of someone like Larry Craig. When it comes down to it, Clinton does and will have great support even though she's not viewed as the most forthcoming candidate. If the Republican candidate is Giuliani, he too will have to deal with the same issues. He is pro-abortion rights and not anti-gay, yet he has to do some dancing around those issues to win the support of socially conservative voters. If it ends up Clinton vs. Giuliani, neither one is going to get top score for being completely open about what they really plan to do as president.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
29. Yeah calling your fellow Democrat and frontrunner a liar...
Probably not the strategy that is going to work...
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
30. that's an unfortunate release from a candidate I like
The simple fact is that the M$M and the mighty RWNM are going to call the Democratic candidate a liar - NO MATTER WHO IT IS. If they cannot find lies, they will make them up. They did it to Clinton (slick Willie), they did it to Gore, they did it to Kerry. If Dodd was the front-runner, they would do it to him.
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