LOL. Edwards claims he's a fighter with the record to prove it.

Then says nothing about his Senate career.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=22008253

unwarrented attacks.They would better spend their time defending the indefensible current actions of their candidate! They are good at that!

excited of any critics of Hillary of which there are plenty with good reason. Hillary actually seems to be going along with Bush more than fighting him. Edwards must be a fighter for the common man with all his success.

Now that the heat is on, Hillary is crying we need to attack the republicans not each other. LOL.

About time for her to pull out another staged question and answer session.

He's fighting to satiate his lust for power and he's lying to his fans to suit his own purposes.

.

because then his smoke and mirrors campaign will go puff. I expect the other candidates will start going after him more and more though.

unseemly manner that he has gone after her. She may smack him upside the head with her purse though.

has apologized for his entire Senate career.

If that's a joke, it's funny.

If it's true, it's even funnier!

:P

because I saw an awful lot of PROTECTION for BushInc in the 90s and saw an awful lot of FIRM SUPPORT for Bush and Cheney's decisions on terrorism and Iraq war the last 6 years.

And Hillary only ADJUSTED her rhetoric once Joe Lieberman lost his primary race in Connecticut and she was about to begin her own primary race for the presidential nomination.

I WISH Hillary and her machine had taken on Bush and Cheney and the Rove machine - but they wouldn't spend that dry powder for the Democratic PARTY that was under constant attack by BushInc would they?

She is a DINO plain and simple.

Populist in name only.

They're both status quo corpros.

PINO. Mind if I use it liberally? With all due credit, of course.

;)

Carry it forth!

to prove that.

And she hasn't voted with the Democrats in 95% of contested votes.

Also, colorless green dreams sleep furiously. Ahzo? Ahlalalalala :crazy:

Just because a MAJORITY of Dems support Bush on an issue, it doesn't mean they DESERVE the APPEARANCE of Dem unity that should be saved for Dem ISSUES not Bush-supporting votes.

And not all of us BELIEVE the dog and pony show of the 90s where the GOP distracted the media with Clinton sex talk while the GOP congress was rewriting the banking rules for their financial masters. Especially after realizing how Bill deep-sixed all the outstanding matters of Poppy Bush's illegal operations re IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA drugrunning.

And Bill and Hillary were VERY SUPPORTIVE of Bush and Cheney on the biggest issues of the 2002 and 2004 elections - Bush's decisions on terrorism and Iraq war received their firm and PUBLIC support.....until Lieberman lost his primary - and THEN they adjusted their rhetoric for her primary campaign.

all the Democrats are Republicans in Congress, and because Bill Clinton is part of a secret conspiracy to appease the world's financial puppetmasters.

And in a thread about how Edwards has changed his mind on virtually every issue twice in the past four years, the real problem is that Hillary has changed her mind from when she supported Bush. The problem is also that Hillary continues to support Bush.

Forgive me if I do not take your well-reasoned, sensible viewpoint seriously.

(BTW, this Congress has opposed Bush more than any Congress has any President in the last 50 years)

BS unity number created to distort the truth about Dem voting percentages.


Your problem is that there are folks at DU familiar with the 'tactics' employed to obscure the facts. That Dem 'unity' rating is as legitimate as 'I get that question alot from college students' and
Clintons' support for Ned Lamont.

You said that Bill Clinton is part of a conspiracy to appease the world's financial masters, and that the unity rating is meaningless because the Democrats vote like Republicans. Those are both laughable.

Just because a MAJORITY of Dems support Bush on an issue, it doesn't mean they DESERVE the APPEARANCE of Dem unity that should be saved for Dem ISSUES not Bush-supporting votes.

And not all of us BELIEVE the dog and pony show of the 90s where the GOP distracted the media with Clinton sex talk while the GOP congress was rewriting the banking rules for their financial masters. Especially after realizing how Bill deep-sixed all the outstanding matters of Poppy Bush's illegal operations re IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA drugrunning.

And Bill and Hillary were VERY SUPPORTIVE of Bush and Cheney on the biggest issues of the 2002 and 2004 elections - Bush's decisions on terrorism and Iraq war received their firm and PUBLIC support.....until Lieberman lost his primary - and THEN they adjusted their rhetoric for her primary campaign.

14% of votes. Claiming that the party unity score is meaningless here is, well, nonsense. Even if you assume that HRC took the exact wrong posture on every vote she could have and still have the numbers work, her absolute-worst-case "true" party unity score would be 97-14= 83%.

And saying that Clinton was involved in "rewriting the banking rules for their financial masters" does indeed mean "appeasing financial puppetmasters." And both are laughable conspiracy theories.

the public and the president were otherwise occupied with the faux attacks on him.

And what Clinton WAS responsible for was the protection Poppy bUsh received throughout the 90s when he could have chosen to FACILITATE access to documents long withheld from IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA drugrunning investigations - but he didn't, did he?

And THIS session is another BS diversion from you as the point was that Hillary and Bill SUPPORTED Bush on the two biggest issues from 2001-2006 - his terrorism and Iraq war decisions - only altering their rhetoric slightly after Lieberman lost his primary race.

That UNITY rating pile of crap would push out people like Kerry and Feingold who BUCKED the BushDems like Hillary when they pushed for an Iraq withdrawal timetable.

that the attacks on the Clintons were only done to distract him while they did evil things, and that (presumably) Clinton wasn't in on it. However, the Clintons both fought back extremely hard, ever since '92--and effectively, given Bill's popularity ratings. So...um, how does the fact that they fought back against bogus GOP accusations mean she isn't a fighter?

Clinton's protection of Poppy Bush throughout the 90s will make it go away.

And Clintons didn't fight Bush and Cheney the last 7 years as Hillary claims.

You switched Hillary's words - BUSH AND CHENEY - with Republicans so people will confuse the timeframe.

I said Hillary lied - that she and Bill have NOT fought Bush and Cheney and WOULD NOT, especially the last 7 years.

If they helped to FIGHT Bush that would have helped the 2004 nominee.
So, instead, they publicly supported Bush on his terrorism and Iraq war decisions from 2001-2006 and did so PUBLICLY. Especially during Bill's June 2004 book tour.

Hillary and Bill were INVISIBLE on the major battles where Bush needed opposing from party.

Bill was advising Dems in DC to support Bush on terrorism and Iraq decisions.

Bill and Hillary were invisible when Kerry attacked Bush on Tora Bora for two years. No back up.

They would not back Kerry up on his 3 calls for Rumsfeld to be fired in 2003-4. Not even after Abu Ghraib.

No back up on Downing Street Memos inquiry and Bill even claimed on Letterman that he never HEARD of DSM - impossible since Bill was advising Tony Blair on Iraq war and Blair would have certainly shared Bush's intentions with him. And Hillary PASSED on signing the letter of inquiry in the senate.

You might be able to fool the casual Dem with your ploys, but some of us know the last twenty plus years like the back of our hand.

If your argument has now devolved to "The Clintons did not chime in with support/opposition these few times" and "The Clintons joined the majority of the Democrats in going along with popular opinion these times instead of making a stand," well, I suppose that's okay, but that isn't where you started. I mean, your only argument is "the Clintons were not against the war," restated in several different fashions. I think everyone in DU knows that.

They DID NOT FIGHT Bush and Cheney as Hillary stated in her LIE during the debate.

They did not fight Bush and Cheney for 15 years, either, as the fight they were in was with the base Republicans - not the bush machine.

Keep avoiding the facts about the protection of Poppy Bush throughout the 90s - keep acting as if it never matters, as if protecting Bush1 didn't lead us directly to Bush2, 9-11 and this Iraq war.

And they only fought the Republican machine for 15 years--not Bush himself! How dare she say "Bush and Cheney" when she actually meant "The Republican attack machine that is currently headed by Bush and Cheney, but which was headed by others, most notably Newt Gingrich, in the past!" Why, some people might not be able to put two and two together, and might get confused and post about it on DU!

(Protecting Bush I? There were Iran-Contra investigations. As for the others? Mostly tinfoil. The fact that you believe that Bush I's CIA connections lead directly to September 11th, the Iraq War, and his son's presidency? Entirely tinfoil. We have a forum for that. Go post unhinged nonsense there.)

This is from the Senate Report -

Matters For Further Investigation

There have been a number of matters which the Subcommittee has received some information on, but has not been able to investigate adequately, due such factors as lack of resources, lack of time, documents being withheld by foreign governments, and limited evidentiary sources or witnesses. Some of the main areas which deserve further investigation include:


1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.


2. BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada. The Subcommittee has received information that remains not fully substantiated that BCCI defrauded investors, as well as some major U.S. and European financial firms, through manipulating commodities and securities markets, especially in Canada, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. This alleged fraud requires further investigation in those countries.


3. BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family. The Subcommittee has not had access to BCCI records regarding India. The substantial lending by BCCI to the Indian industrialist family, the Hindujas, reported in press accounts, deserves further scrutiny, as do the press reports concerning alleged kick-backs and bribes to Indian officials.


4. BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Soghanalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers. Sarkenalian was a principal seller of arms to Iraq. Monzer Al-Kassar has been implicated in terrorist bombings in connection with terrorist organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Other arms dealers, including some who provided machine guns and trained Medellin cartel death squads, also used BCCI. Tracing their assets through the bank would likely lead to important information concerning international terrorist and arms trafficker networks.


5. The use of BCCI by central figures in arms sales to Iran during the 1980's. The late Cyrus Hashemi, a key figure in allegations concerning an alleged deal involving the return of U.S. hostages from Iran in 1980, banked at BCCI London. His records have been withheld from disclosure to the Subcommittee by a British judge. Their release might aid in reaching judgments concerning Hashemi's activities in 1980, with the CIA under President Carter and allegedly with William Casey.


6. BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London. BCCI was used by both the Syrian and Soviet governments in the period in which each was involved in supporting activities hostile to the United States. Obtaining the records of those financial transactions would be critical to understanding what the Soviet Union under Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov was doing in the West; and might document the nature and extent of Syria's support for international terrorism.


7. BCCI's involvement with foreign intelligence agencies. A British source has told the Bank of England and British investigators that BCCI was used by numerous foreign intelligence agencies in the United Kingdom. The British intelligence service, the MI-5, has sealed documents from BCCI's records in the UK which could shed light on this allegation.


8. The financial dealings of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States. The Subcommittee found numerous connections among Keating and BCCI-related persons and entities, such as BCCI director Alfred Hartman; CenTrust chief David Paul and CenTrust itself; Capcom front-man Lawrence Romrell; BCCI shipping affiliate, the Gokal group and the Gokal family; and possibly Ghaith Pharaon. The ties between BCCI and Keating's financial empire require further investigation.


9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.


10. The nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of shares of other U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political figures. Political figures and members of the ruling family of various Middle Eastern countries have very substantial investments in the United States, in some cases, owning substantial shares of major U.S. banks. Given BCCI's routine use of nominees from the Middle East, and the pervasive practice of using nominees within the Middle East, further investigation may be warranted of Middle Eastern ownership of domestic U.S. financial institutions.


11. The nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI. BCCI's shareholders and front-men have made substantial investments in real estate throughout the United States, owning major office buildings in such key cities as New York and Washington, D.C. Given BCCI's pervasiveness criminality, and the role of these shareholders and front-men in the BCCI affair, a complete review of their holdings in the United States is warranted.


12. BCCI's collusion in Savings & Loan fraud in the U.S. The Subcommittee found ties between BCCI and two failed Savings and Loan institutions, CenTrust, which BCCI came to have a controlling interest in, and Caprock Savings and Loan in Texas, and as noted above, the involvement of BCCI figures with Charles Keating and his business empire. In each case, BCCI's involvement cost the U. S. taxpayers money. A comprehensive review of BCCI's account holders in the U.S. and globally might well reveal additional such cases. In addition, the issue of whether David Paul and CenTrust's political relationships were used by Paul on behalf of BCCI merits further investigation.


13. The sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et de Placements (BCP) in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. Given BNL's links to BCCI, and Cukorova Groups' involvement through its subsidiary, Entrade, with BNL in the sales to Iraq, the swift sale of BCP to Cukorova just weeks after BCCI's closure -- prior to due diligence being conducted -- raises questions as to whether a prior relationship existed between BCCI and Cukorova, and Cukorova's intentions in making the purchase. Within the past year, Cukorova also applied to purchase a New York bank. Cukorova's actions pertaining to BCP require further investigation in Switzerland by Swiss authorities, and by the Federal Reserve New York.


14. BCCI's role in China. As noted in the chapter on BCCI's activities in foreign countries, BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts. While there have been allegations that bribes and pay-offs were involved, these allegations require further investigation and detail to determine what actually happened, and who was involved.


15. The relationship between Capcom and BCCI, between Capcom and the intelligence community, and between Capcom's shareholders and U.S. telecommunications industry figures. The Subcommittee was able to interview people and review documents concerning Capcom that no other investigators had to date interviewed or reviewed. Much more needs to be done to understand what Capcom was doing in the United States, the United Kingdom, Egypt, Oman, and the Middle East, including whether the firm was, as has been alleged but not proven, used by the intelligence community to move funds for intelligence operations; and whether any person involved with Capcom was seeking secretly to acquire interests in the U.S. telecommunications industry.


16. The relationship of important BCCI figures and important intelligence figures to the collapse of the Hong Kong Deposit and Guaranty Bank and Tetra Finance (HK) in 1983. The circumstances surrounding the collpase of these two Hong Kong banks; the Hong Kong banks' practices of using nominees, front-companies, and back-to-back financial transactions; the Hong Banks' directors having included several important BCCI figures, including Ghanim Al Mazrui, and a close associate of then CIA director William Casey; all raise the question of whether there was a relationship between these two institutions and BCCI-Hong Kong, and whether the two Hong Kong institutions were used for domestic or foreign intelligence operations.


17. BCCI's activities in Atlanta and its acquisition of the National Bank of Georgia through First American. Although the Justice Department indictments of Clark Clifford and Robert Altman cover portions of how BCCI acquired National Bank of Georgia, other important allegations regarding the possible involvement of political figures in Georgia in BCCI's activities there remain outside the indictment. These allegations, as well as the underlying facts regarding BCCI's activities in Georgia, require further investigation.


18. The relationship between BCCI and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. BCCI and the Atlanta Branch of BNL had an extensive relationship in the United States, with the Atlanta Branch of BNL having a substantial number of accounts in BCCI's Miami offices. BNL was, according to federal indictments, a significant financial conduit for weapons to Iraq. BCCI also made loans to Iraq, although of a substantially smaller nature. Given the criminality of both institutions, and their interlocking activities, further investigation of the relationship could produce further understanding of Saddam Hussein's international network for acquiring weapons, and how Iraq evaded governmental restrictions on such weapons acquisitions.


19. The alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI. As set forth in the chapter on intelligence, numerous trails lead from BCCI to Casey, and from Casey to BCCI, and the investigation has been unable to follow any of them to the end to determine whether there was indeed a relationship, and if there was, its nature and extent. If any such relationship existed, it could have a significant impact on the findings and conclusions concerning the CIA and BCCI's role in U.S. foreign policy and intelligence operations during the Casey era. The investigation's work detailing the ties of BCCI to the intelligence community generally also remains far from complete, and much about these ties remains obscure and in need of further investigation.


20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.

The tinfoil part would be the LaRouche-esque conspiracies that crop up around it.

by the new Dem president.

You can pretend all you want - but that's a fact - and we all KNOW how he 'dealt with' Marc Rich, an IranContra and BCCI operative of Poppy's.

between BCCI and 9/11?

Poppy Bush spent 5 yrs blocking access to needed documents that could have put these global terror networks out of business in their countries once exposed to be working WITH Bush1 and his international partners in their illegal operations.

Unfortunately, Bill Clinton sided with Poppy's secrecy and privilege. Imagine not having one word to say about BCCI even after 9-11 and his pardon of Marc Rich. Gee - - wonder why?



http://edition.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/09/26/binladen/

Bin Laden linked to BCCI


September 26, 2001 Posted: 1921 GMT

WASHINGTON (CNNfn) -- New details of suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden's finances emerged Wednesday in a Senate Finance Committee hearing on money laundering.

Among other things, the committee learned of a bank established by bin Laden with links to banks around the world and bank accounts at the fraud-ridden Bank of Credit and Commerce International, which was closed in the early 1990s.

This tidbit of information had been in the possession of U.S. investigators as long as a decade ago, but overlooked, a senator testified. This is because bin Laden had not then been identified as a focus of U.S. terrorism concerns.

Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., who conducted an investigation into the fraud-ridden Bank of Credit and Commerce International, said bin Laden held a number of accounts with BCCI.

"When we shut it down, we dealt him a very serious economic blow." Kerry said.

The global BCCI, established by Pakistanis but incorporated in Luxembourg, was shut down by regulators in a multibillion-dollar collapse in the early 1990s. It was not only a haven for money launderers but a major route of financing for the volunteer Islamic force that went to Afghanistan – of which bin Laden was a part – to fight the Russian army.

>>>>>>

I remember it. They had Independent Counsel Lawrence Walsh and he did a great job that went on for years. The whole thing fell apart though when Pappy Bush pardoned all the criminals who weren't already released by appeals. By the time Bill Clinton got there, it was all over.

The other stuff about BCCI and CIA drug running are scandals that occurred, but there must be versions out there with kook conspiracy theories added on. Whatever you think Bill Clinton ignored probably never happened in the first place.

You sure are angry about whatever it is.

just so you can believe Bill couldn't possibly have known a thing about it.


Marc Rich was a gawddam IranContra operative AND was named in BCCI investigation, too. Keep pretending he was just another tax evader - every bit of closed government helps the fascists.

Gee, creek, what happened when Bill received this Dec 1992 BCCI report with all the OUTSTANDING MATTERS in BCCI? Quote his book if you can. Oh - you can't, can you? He wouldn't write a word about BCCI would he?

Jackson Stephens must have been VERY happy.


Matters For Further Investigation

There have been a number of matters which the Subcommittee has received some information on, but has not been able to investigate adequately, due such factors as lack of resources, lack of time, documents being withheld by foreign governments, and limited evidentiary sources or witnesses. Some of the main areas which deserve further investigation include:


1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.


2. BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada. The Subcommittee has received information that remains not fully substantiated that BCCI defrauded investors, as well as some major U.S. and European financial firms, through manipulating commodities and securities markets, especially in Canada, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. This alleged fraud requires further investigation in those countries.


3. BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family. The Subcommittee has not had access to BCCI records regarding India. The substantial lending by BCCI to the Indian industrialist family, the Hindujas, reported in press accounts, deserves further scrutiny, as do the press reports concerning alleged kick-backs and bribes to Indian officials.


4. BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Soghanalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers. Sarkenalian was a principal seller of arms to Iraq. Monzer Al-Kassar has been implicated in terrorist bombings in connection with terrorist organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Other arms dealers, including some who provided machine guns and trained Medellin cartel death squads, also used BCCI. Tracing their assets through the bank would likely lead to important information concerning international terrorist and arms trafficker networks.


5. The use of BCCI by central figures in arms sales to Iran during the 1980's. The late Cyrus Hashemi, a key figure in allegations concerning an alleged deal involving the return of U.S. hostages from Iran in 1980, banked at BCCI London. His records have been withheld from disclosure to the Subcommittee by a British judge. Their release might aid in reaching judgments concerning Hashemi's activities in 1980, with the CIA under President Carter and allegedly with William Casey.


6. BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London. BCCI was used by both the Syrian and Soviet governments in the period in which each was involved in supporting activities hostile to the United States. Obtaining the records of those financial transactions would be critical to understanding what the Soviet Union under Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov was doing in the West; and might document the nature and extent of Syria's support for international terrorism.


7. BCCI's involvement with foreign intelligence agencies. A British source has told the Bank of England and British investigators that BCCI was used by numerous foreign intelligence agencies in the United Kingdom. The British intelligence service, the MI-5, has sealed documents from BCCI's records in the UK which could shed light on this allegation.


8. The financial dealings of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States. The Subcommittee found numerous connections among Keating and BCCI-related persons and entities, such as BCCI director Alfred Hartman; CenTrust chief David Paul and CenTrust itself; Capcom front-man Lawrence Romrell; BCCI shipping affiliate, the Gokal group and the Gokal family; and possibly Ghaith Pharaon. The ties between BCCI and Keating's financial empire require further investigation.


9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.


10. The nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of shares of other U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political figures. Political figures and members of the ruling family of various Middle Eastern countries have very substantial investments in the United States, in some cases, owning substantial shares of major U.S. banks. Given BCCI's routine use of nominees from the Middle East, and the pervasive practice of using nominees within the Middle East, further investigation may be warranted of Middle Eastern ownership of domestic U.S. financial institutions.


11. The nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI. BCCI's shareholders and front-men have made substantial investments in real estate throughout the United States, owning major office buildings in such key cities as New York and Washington, D.C. Given BCCI's pervasiveness criminality, and the role of these shareholders and front-men in the BCCI affair, a complete review of their holdings in the United States is warranted.


12. BCCI's collusion in Savings & Loan fraud in the U.S. The Subcommittee found ties between BCCI and two failed Savings and Loan institutions, CenTrust, which BCCI came to have a controlling interest in, and Caprock Savings and Loan in Texas, and as noted above, the involvement of BCCI figures with Charles Keating and his business empire. In each case, BCCI's involvement cost the U. S. taxpayers money. A comprehensive review of BCCI's account holders in the U.S. and globally might well reveal additional such cases. In addition, the issue of whether David Paul and CenTrust's political relationships were used by Paul on behalf of BCCI merits further investigation.


13. The sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et de Placements (BCP) in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. Given BNL's links to BCCI, and Cukorova Groups' involvement through its subsidiary, Entrade, with BNL in the sales to Iraq, the swift sale of BCP to Cukorova just weeks after BCCI's closure -- prior to due diligence being conducted -- raises questions as to whether a prior relationship existed between BCCI and Cukorova, and Cukorova's intentions in making the purchase. Within the past year, Cukorova also applied to purchase a New York bank. Cukorova's actions pertaining to BCP require further investigation in Switzerland by Swiss authorities, and by the Federal Reserve New York.


14. BCCI's role in China. As noted in the chapter on BCCI's activities in foreign countries, BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts. While there have been allegations that bribes and pay-offs were involved, these allegations require further investigation and detail to determine what actually happened, and who was involved.


15. The relationship between Capcom and BCCI, between Capcom and the intelligence community, and between Capcom's shareholders and U.S. telecommunications industry figures. The Subcommittee was able to interview people and review documents concerning Capcom that no other investigators had to date interviewed or reviewed. Much more needs to be done to understand what Capcom was doing in the United States, the United Kingdom, Egypt, Oman, and the Middle East, including whether the firm was, as has been alleged but not proven, used by the intelligence community to move funds for intelligence operations; and whether any person involved with Capcom was seeking secretly to acquire interests in the U.S. telecommunications industry.


16. The relationship of important BCCI figures and important intelligence figures to the collapse of the Hong Kong Deposit and Guaranty Bank and Tetra Finance (HK) in 1983. The circumstances surrounding the collpase of these two Hong Kong banks; the Hong Kong banks' practices of using nominees, front-companies, and back-to-back financial transactions; the Hong Banks' directors having included several important BCCI figures, including Ghanim Al Mazrui, and a close associate of then CIA director William Casey; all raise the question of whether there was a relationship between these two institutions and BCCI-Hong Kong, and whether the two Hong Kong institutions were used for domestic or foreign intelligence operations.


17. BCCI's activities in Atlanta and its acquisition of the National Bank of Georgia through First American. Although the Justice Department indictments of Clark Clifford and Robert Altman cover portions of how BCCI acquired National Bank of Georgia, other important allegations regarding the possible involvement of political figures in Georgia in BCCI's activities there remain outside the indictment. These allegations, as well as the underlying facts regarding BCCI's activities in Georgia, require further investigation.


18. The relationship between BCCI and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. BCCI and the Atlanta Branch of BNL had an extensive relationship in the United States, with the Atlanta Branch of BNL having a substantial number of accounts in BCCI's Miami offices. BNL was, according to federal indictments, a significant financial conduit for weapons to Iraq. BCCI also made loans to Iraq, although of a substantially smaller nature. Given the criminality of both institutions, and their interlocking activities, further investigation of the relationship could produce further understanding of Saddam Hussein's international network for acquiring weapons, and how Iraq evaded governmental restrictions on such weapons acquisitions.


19. The alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI. As set forth in the chapter on intelligence, numerous trails lead from BCCI to Casey, and from Casey to BCCI, and the investigation has been unable to follow any of them to the end to determine whether there was indeed a relationship, and if there was, its nature and extent. If any such relationship existed, it could have a significant impact on the findings and conclusions concerning the CIA and BCCI's role in U.S. foreign policy and intelligence operations during the Casey era. The investigation's work detailing the ties of BCCI to the intelligence community generally also remains far from complete, and much about these ties remains obscure and in need of further investigation.


20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.

the 90s were staged to distract attention from Bill protecting a cabal of trillionaire globalists who were involved in running drugs?

If so, let me guess. You found out about it on the Internet.

were keeping Clinton under attack with personal failings to distract media and the public from their maneuverings.

It may have pissed Clinton off that the GOPs were doing it, but it did keep the focus off the serious matters that Poppy Bush was involved with.


Or do you think Clinton was completely unaware of the serious matters that were at the core of Poppy's BCCI operations?

but I noticed that almost all the items didn't actually allege specific crimes and offer evidence that the crimes occurred. They all said that the matter listed needed further investigation.

That's a common technique used by conspiracy hoax bullshit authors. I can come up with a million things that could have possibly happened and make them as terrible as I want. Its even easier if you draw suspicions to connections that mean nothing. Was Ted Bundy a depositor in BCCI? If he was, one could ask if BCCI was behind murdering all those women. Why would BCCI do that? Cover up? Knew too much? Lets investigate.

The GOP did that kind of crap do Clinton all the time. When no wrongdoing was found, they just claimed that the truth was covered up by an even bigger conspiracy. There's no end to it.

The Republicans did all this because they thought it would help them politically, as payback for Nixon, and because they hated Bill and Hillary Clinton. There was no master plan for distraction. Too many people were involved and the plan would have leaked out.

I think he can quite honestly make the claim that he's a fighter. His record as an attorney certainly supports his statement.

I didn't know one existed.

So I'll take that as a tacit admission :evilgrin:

Hey Hillary drones:

Hillary was a partner in the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock while Big Dog was Governor. Go to the Rose Law Firm's website and look at their practice areas. Specifically look at "Labor." They state that they represent "Management" in all areas of litigation, including the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So if you are discriminated against in Arkansas, Hillary's old firm will do their best to see that your employer can continue to discriminate. . . . and union bust . . . and maim.

Then look at the firms located in Arkansas . . .

Hillary represented the oppressors . . . because it paid better than representing the oppressed. John Edwards has always represented the oppressed. Hillary said on more than one occasion that somebody in the family had to make the money because the Governor of Arkansas made so little salary.

Both John Edwards and Hillary's Senate careers have been brief parts of their lives. Their legal careers have spanned all of their adult lives. John Edwards has been the equivalent of a Jedi Knight and Hillary has been the equivalent of the captain of the Death Star.

For all your advocacy for Hillary, you cannot point to a "victory" that she has achieved against the powerful interests that she represented in the Rose Law Firm or has taken money from for her Senate and Presidential campaigns. As the gospel of St. Luke says, 'You cannot love two masters. You will either love the one and hate the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money." Luke: 16:13 Hillary has chosen to love and serve the money.

on their BCCI involvements.

And what happened to Marc Rich, another NAMED FIGURE in IranContra and BCCI investigations? Anyone know?

AIEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

:rofl:

Hillary was involved in the House legal team during the Nixon impeachment and she was quite involved with the Children's Defense Fund.

John Edwards is an ambulance chasing charlatan compared to Hillary's legal record.

I'd like to have a civil discussion, since we're supposed to be on the same side here, in principle at least. Edwards helped a lot of people who were asking for Justice. For most of these people, as it is for people who are lower on the economic rung of the ladder, a law suit is the action of last resort. It's their only hope. Do you understand that? Keep attacking the lawyers, in Pakistan they are putting them in prison.

If you work for a living, you must support John Edwards.

Democrat I'd ever consider supporting in this race.

I accept that, now can you tell me why? And also, if it's not too much trouble, what informant ion you used to bring you to this conclusion?

I don't believe in miracle transformations, from being a rabid Lieberman IWR co-sponsor to a disengenous apologist in 2005, from being opposed to universal health care, pro mountaintop mining, pro China trade deal, pro H1-b Visas, pro Patriot Act (which he apparently helped craft) to his very heavy-handed remarks about Iran at the Herzliya conference ... all contrasted to what he proclaims to stand for now.

I also don't believe that you work at a hedge fund to learn about poverty, and while I don't give a hoot about the kind of house he builds for himself, it's beyond ridiculous for him to pretend that it's in anyway good for the environment.

He couldn't wait one term before running for president. How consumed by ambition for power could one be? He'd do anything to win, and has sunk to the lowest of any candidate. He'll say anything.

and creditors.. yeah, Edwards is a honey!

Ambulance chaser??

So if the Tyson chicken machine twists off my arm and I hire John Edwards to sue them to redesign the machine and pay me for my arm, he is an ambulance chaser???????????

So Hillary and the Rose Law firm are better lawyers because they defend Tyson Foods????????????

That is the most RIGHT WING piece of sh-t you have posted in DU! Buddy, you are in the wrong place to denigrate trial lawyers!

:shrug:

And if you support Clinton, you should know who Mark Penn is.

Why are you asking me about it?

:shrug:

i would guess...

A trial lawyer is the only way some people in America EVER experience justice.

Since you have no clue, read a couple of Gerry Spence's books about people he has represented against the system out in Wyoming (Dick Cheney country).

I would tell you a couple of my own stories, but I have no credibility with you. There are a couple of dozen farmers in Iowa still on their farm because I believed in their cause and agreed to take on the bank. One of them paid me in dressed chickens and fresh vegetables from their farm. I don't make a lot of money representing small farmers and small business owners, but I have a lot of mementos from twenty years of fighting for family farms and businesses.

If the oppressed in the US did not have trial lawyers, we would either be Central America or we would have revolution. And we may be both if your "girl" brings her brand of Democracy to the White House.

If Edwards wasn't around somebody else would have taken the cases. The defense of small farmers though is very admirable. Bless you.

the thousands of personal injury lawyers practicing in this country. No more, no less. He made big money for his clients and big money for himself. I think that most of his clients deserved the money, but recent scientific data doesn't support his premise back when he was suing OB/GYN's for causing CP.

You're afraid and it's showing.

and I'll post whenever and whatever I like, thank you very much.

you have to sue someone if you get hurt on the job. We have it because the lawyers are corrupt.

The vioxx case is proof. 2 billion for the plaintiffs attorneys, 2 billion for the defendants attorneys. Viox is a powerful anti-inflammatory. The product information stated right on it that vioxx tends to raise blood pressure.

But further why is Merk deciding what goes on the market? The FDA should be making the decisions and the evaluations. The 4 billion that is going to the attorneys here is pure wasted money. It is money going from the People to the lawyers for no benefit to the people whatsoever.

The Vioxx case is proof positive that John Edwards has no prayer of being elected president. The legal system is too corrupt. If by some weird bizarre circumstance Edwards gets nominated, the GOP will be able to dig up so much dirt on Edward's legal career since its very premise is corrupt. I do not think the GOP really wants to fundumentally change to the corrupt legal system either. But Edwards legal career is very fertile ground to destroy him in any presidential campaign.

The lobbyists (most of who are not lawyers) write the laws to favor business. Capitalism is about producing at the lowest cost and making the biggest profit. Only when there is a national outcry, do we get worker/consumer legislation. It has to get so bad that thousands or millions are maimed or killed before Congress or state legislatures roll back some of the pro-rich laws. As Jesse Jackson said during the farm crisis of the 80's, "if a couple of farmers lose their farms, it is a personal tragedy. If a couple of thousand farmers lose their farms, it is a national tragedy." We only get just legislation when it reaches a national tragedy.

I agree some trial lawyers make too much money. But when our government is a servant of the rich and powerful, people agree to pay whatever to get justice. Righting wrongs and reducing legal fees are two different issues.

John Edwards stood up for individual people. Did he make a lot of money? Yes. So did almost every other candidate for president. Look at the work and the clients Hillary had at the Rose Law Firm.

to the system is not maintaining the corruption?

I do not believe that for one second.

For the most part politicians are lawyers and they write the laws to favor the rich and the lawyers. There is a stinking symbioses involved here.

We in Iowa are represented by 5 congresspersons and 2 Senators. Senator Tom Harkin and Congressman Bruce Braley are the only lawyers. Senator Grassley is a self-proclaimed farmer. Congressman King is a heavy equipment guy, Congressman Latham owns a seed company, Congressman Boswell is retired military and Congressman Loebsack is a college professor.

You need to check your own delegation before making such a blanket statement.

In the Iowa legislature, there are only 17 lawyers out of 150 legislators. I served in the Iowa legislature. From my experience in Iowa, the lawyers actually thought about the common good compared to the realtors, insurance agents, construction people who were legislators.

So, were you simply lashing out, or do you know for a fact how many lawyers serve in your federal delegation and state legislature???????

I know the lawyers are a major political lobby, if not the most major.

I know we have 2 million people in prison in this country. I know that the defendant is forced to pay for his defense and a defendant that has resources will pay whatever it takes. This is corrupt. The state should be responsible for defending a suspect, but this would be less lucrative for the lawyers.

I know medicine in this country is more dangerous because of the lawsuits. Hospitals can only have good quality control with an open policy. Lawsuits force hospitals to be secretive and therefore dangerous to our health.

I could go on and on in this vein pointing out how the system is skewed to the benefit of the lawyers at the expense of the people. You want me to believe that the system is just arranged this way for some higher purpose or because the wealthy want it. The lawyers are looking after themselves at the expense of the people.

Also, we have a system where the law is interpreted in court, which further allows the lawyers to write the laws to their benefit. Even if the legislature does not have a whole hell of lawyers which in many cases it does anyway.

Our legal system is corrupt as all hell.

While not HRC administration, was the most corporate friendly democratic administration in history. If you work for a living, you must support John Edwards. The attacks that you always throw are fear based. And I'm sorry you feel you have to do that. I wonder how much you really paid attention darning the Clinton years.

that Edwards made far more money than Hillary did. Oh, and half of Edwards' cases weren't against corporate oppressors, but baby doctors who Edwards said should have performed caesarians.

Hillary did lots of free legal work on the behalf of children. What free legal work did Edwards do?

Everybody in the US is entitled to a lawyer. Even rich people.

I keep looking for examples of real out-in-front
of-the-pack national leadership from HRH Hillary
but I still can't find any.

You know like Colonel in the south...

All of your posts are posts of opposition and disinformation.

Feels like what it might have felt like in 1936 in Berlin.

for coming to the November 13 Hyperbole Awards Gala, the most amazing, spectacular, orgasmically life-changing event of all time. The winner for "Most ridiculous hyperbole in the history of recorded human communication" goes to Broke Dad, for his wonderfully absurd declaration that Hillary supporters are "storm troopers in the Hillary fascist army!" And he didn't stop there--he claimed that having to see people supporting a candidate he doesn't like on the internet is the same as being in the heart of Nazi Germany!

And let's give him a round of applause for the non-statement "All of your posts are posts of opposition." Not hyperbole per se, but we at the Institute for Advancement of Hyperbole appreciate nothing more than meaningless bombast, no matter where it comes from.

Congratulations, Broke Dad! You are today's champion!

with the most spectacularly stupid post of the day.

It's apparent that term seems to fit him well.

in 2004. Some help he was.

We don't like to talk about John Edwards mks. I or II.

:)

he's done more for common people before his political career than hillary ever will.

and you seem to think you're clever, :rofl:

All the RW talking points they spew!
They might as well vote republican.
Don't you know how hellish you are making DU?
Blah blah, blah

Negative campaigning 101

and the Obama hating. Clinton and Obama supporters are sick of the Edwards guys bashing them, and they're relishing the opportunity to hold a temporary truce and fire back.

And hell, Obama doesn't either. Now that I think of it, none of the top tier talk about their record much. Hmmmm.

aggressive in attacking the others, Clinton in particular, then maybe you'd have a point. But Edwards and his supporters should remember what they say about glass houses and throwing stones.

and Iraq war and made sure to do so PUBLICLY, especially during Bill's 2004 summer book tour.