Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Which Candidate has the most defensible Senate record?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 11:46 AM
Original message
Poll question: Which Candidate has the most defensible Senate record?
Edited on Wed Nov-14-07 11:56 AM by Labors of Hercules
So, we nominate another Senator as our Candidate for President, Then what?

We all know Senate records are almost worse than Criminal Records, with pages of ammunition to be taken out of context by the RW spin machine and fired ad-nauseum against any candidate who has one.

So, which candidate has the BEST Senate record, and how do they use it to their advantage?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. That's bunk and obscures the ACTUAL problems in 2000, 2002, and 2004 - election fraud.
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. hmmmm.... so the GOP and 527 record-spinning was not a problem?
Then this poll is irrelevant. Feel free to ignore it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:07 PM
Original message
If the election process was secured and Dems took office as voted, then there
Edited on Wed Nov-14-07 12:31 PM by blm
would be no poll about senators' records being blamed for election losses, would there?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. Oh my, your logic is infallible...
I stand corrected in my irrelevant poll and will sit down over here, shall I?

No, I think not.

Suffice to say, even if you are correct in your assessment, at the very least the manipulation of Kerry's Senate record made it much easier to steal the o4 election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Steal 5 million votes - steal 6 million votes. Number needed didn't matter.
When you control every level of the election process where the votes are allowed, cast and counted.

It's Terry McAuliffe's record at the DNC that all of us should focus on - as he is the one who chose to sit on his hands for four years and let the RNC gain all that control, uncountered by the DNC even after the hearings on 2000's fraud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rjones2818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Can't vote....
since the nominee's going to be from the House!

:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I was waiting for it!
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. Not having seen the individual records, I am willing to bet
HRC has kept her voting record pretty clean. I cannot believe
that knowing she might well run for President, she kept her
rcord with that in mind. Dure they will attack her as "librul"
but this is the main attack on any Democrat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:02 PM
Original message
Her Iraq vote and her vote for Kyl/Lieberman aren't what you call clean.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. Biden, because he's not pretending it's anything different than it actually is. And Media has not
and cannot characterize it as being extreme Left or Right.

He's definately Left/Center.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. Edwards has a Senate record?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. yep. and a pretty inept one by all accounts...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
35. Ha! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. link to said records might validate your accusations
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thereby cutting out Kucinich. Typical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. the op said "Senator"..Kooch is a REP
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I know that. It still cut him out.
Could have said "Senators and Representatives". But nooooooooo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. No offense intended. Kucinich is in a class all his own!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Indeed!
:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. Lots of tactors at play there.
The Big 3 all have short Senate careers but each have votes in there that can be used against them.

Dodd & Biden have been around so long that I am sure there are votes that can be misconstrued.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. Obama who has missed 80% of the votes ???
You got to be kidding me. But then he could swim up shit creek and the groupies would say he didn't smell. GO TO THE DAMN CONGRESSIONAL RECORD AND SEE WHAT "MR SITTIN' ON THE FENCE HAS VOTED FOR"

Not damn much he has missed most of the votes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Bitwit1234..
is that the actual number for the votes he's missed?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tejanocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. Clearly, Obama! I cannot believe the votes for Biden. The ONLY REASON Biden's bankruptcy votes, his
weak position on abortion, and his "free" trade record is not an issue is because neither the media nor his opponents considers his candidacy anything that needs to be responded to.

Dodd is pretty good, but siding with Bush on ending the downpayment assistance program as part of his role in the banking committee has cost him dearly in my estimation.

Edwards's record in the Senate would be defensible if he were running as a moderate, but he's running as more of a progressive since his stint as director of the poverty center. Just like Al Gore, Edwards has evolved as a leader (and as a person) and has moved left since he last held office so he has grown past his old voting record (both Gore and Edwards are much better advocates for change now than what their past voting records reflect).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Overall, Biden's record is solidly liberal. Every other candidate's record has 'flaws'.
The difference is, Biden supporters don't pretend he's anything he's not.

IMO, the WORST of the lot is Edwards and his supporters who pretend he's anything but the centrist his record as a Senator and candidate in 04 indicates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Given the fact that Biden's been in the senate for 35 years...
Edited on Wed Nov-14-07 12:37 PM by youthere
I'd say clearly he has the best record of all of them.
I like Obama, but he has missed a lot of votes (or at least there is the perception that he's missed a lot), and his detractors WILL use it against him...in the primary as well as the GE.
Biden's voting record is most consistent with how he portrays himself, and the constituency he represents.
Every candidate that has served in the house or senate is going to have something in their voting record that to some will be considered a "black mark". The trick is weighing what you consider to be negatives against what that candidate has to offer as POTUS. I've weighed all the candidates, and for Biden comes out on top.
On Edit: Just as a side note, you seem to insinuate that Biden supporters haven't considered him carefully or completely and I must tell you that you couldn't be further off the mark. No one jumps on the "Biden bandwagon" because it's fashionable or because he's the "cool" candidate. Everyone of us has looked at each candidate in agonizing detail and come to realize that Biden is the best qualified and capable candidate for POTUS. You dislike him because he has issues in voting record (which have been explained ad nauseum here on DU). We support him in spite of it, because we stand to gain so much from his experience, his ability, and his intellect.
I would caution you to look past the simple YEAS and NAYS in any candidate's vote tally, and consider the WHY's. I will continue to support Senator Biden in the primaries, and wish you and your candidate good luck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Oh, you mean THIS poverty center
John Edwards ended 2004 with a problem: how to keep alive his public profile without the benefit of a presidential campaign that could finance his travels and pay for his political staff.

Mr. Edwards, who reported this year that he had assets of nearly $30 million, came up with a novel solution, creating a nonprofit organization with the stated mission of fighting poverty. The organization, the Center for Promise and Opportunity, raised $1.3 million in 2005, and — unlike a sister charity he created to raise scholarship money for poor students — the main beneficiary of the center’s fund-raising was Mr. Edwards himself, tax filings show.

A spokesman for Mr. Edwards defended the center yesterday as a legitimate tool against poverty.

The organization became a big part of a shadow political apparatus for Mr. Edwards after his defeat as the Democratic vice presidential nominee in 2004 and before the start of his presidential bid this time around. Its officers were members of his political staff, and it helped pay for his nearly constant travel, including to early primary states.

While Mr. Edwards said the organization’s purpose was “making the eradication of poverty the cause of this generation,” its federal filings say it financed “retreats and seminars” with foreign policy experts on Iraq and national security issues. Unlike the scholarship charity, donations to it were not tax deductible, and, significantly, it did not have to disclose its donors — as political action committees and other political fund-raising vehicles do — and there were no limits on the size of individual donations.

<…>

Mr. Edwards mixed policy and politics in a way that allowed his supporters to donate to the causes he believed in — and to the organizations he had set up. He also set up two political action committees, something commonly done by politicians thinking of running for president.

But it was his use of a tax-exempt organization to finance his travel and employ people connected to his past and current campaigns that went beyond what most other prospective candidates have done before pursuing national office. And according to experts on nonprofit foundations, Mr. Edwards pushed at the boundaries of how far such organizations can venture into the political realm. Such entities, which are regulated under Section 501C-4 of the tax code, can engage in advocacy but cannot make partisan political activities their primary purpose without risking loss of their tax-exempt status.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/us/politics/22edwards.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. no doubt his travels and seminars were mostly spent in Iowa..
conveniently utilizing his 501C-4 donation money for funding and forging his Iowa presence over the last 4 yrs.

However, if any of that money is spent paying for bashing his rivals in campaign ads...that is a definite no,no!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Biden has matured best of all
Edited on Wed Nov-14-07 12:32 PM by Froward69
the candidates. I laughed at him in 1988. and supported Edwards until I met him. and just this weekend Edwards plagiarized Biden. with "A Sacred Trust"...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #30
47. You saw that too.
Obama plagerized him at the JJ dinner too.

unreal!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. And yet Joe gets labeled
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. Biden has 30 years of votes
Clearly that would cause more trouble than a few years for Obama or even Edwards. I can't understand the motivation of those votes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. Biden vs Obama's voting record on Free Trade:
BIDEN: (four most recent covering the past 3 yeaers)
Voted NO on free trade agreement with Oman. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)
Voted NO on establishing free trade between US & Singapore. (Jul 2003)
Voted NO on establishing free trade between the US and Chile. (Jul 2003)

OBAMA:
Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)

On the two issues Biden and Obama have in common, Obama voted PRO free trade one time out of two (50%), Biden voted PRO free trade ZERO.

So I don't understand your charge against Biden's free trade voting record.






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
murbley40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
50. You gave examples of why
you think Biden, Dodd and Edwards do not have the best Senate records,: however you did not back up
why you think Obama in his short tenure does have the best record. An oversite perhaps?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. Would you add the record of Kucinich in the House? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. nope.
You don't get off that easy... :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. So you're going to make me really think :) n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. nods.
:popcorn:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
22. Kucinich in the earlier years has the worst record on abortion
issues which could prove to be an advantage for him in the GE.


He explains his view in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiVKtwS-UvM

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
24. Edwards would prefer everyone forget his...
:7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Has he admitted that he was in the Senate yet? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. That's not all he's admitted...
He's admitted having shown about the crappiest judgement a junior Senator could show... As if by admitting he was wrong most of the time then, he is proving he is wiser and more capable of making Presidential decisions now... yeah, right. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
31. Gravel - not included. Dodd is the only one who voted against IWR.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Dodd voted FOR the IWR. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. I stand corrected. Gravel then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Dodd voted for IWR.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. if you'd gotten away with that then repeated it a few more times...
...it would have become netroots lore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Didn't intend to. Honest mistake. Gravel's the answer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
39. Where's Gravel? The one who read the Pentagon Papers?
Who single-handedly filibustered the draft?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. I'm Sorry... had a computer meltdown before I could add Gravel...
I know... :spank:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. If you haven't seen it, go to YouTube and search Gravel Pentagon Papers
It's Gravel relaying the story of that historic event. It's VERY entertaining!

I've posted the video here several times but it wasn't popular.

I LOVE Gravel!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
46. Biden, certainly, though I'll be the first to say it's nowhere near perfect. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #46
53. yeah but it is LONG enough to
keep the rethugs busy reading it through Nov 08...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. No, not perfect, but I've been repeatedly surprised at how positively impressed
I've been by his voting history. Much more liberal than I would have initially thought!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
murbley40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
49. Kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
murbley40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
51. Kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
52. Kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 10th 2024, 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC