Clinton flip-flops (again) on drivers license issue. Obama campaign pounces.

Clinton statement:



http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/11/_hillary_comes_out_against_giving_drivers_licenses_to_illegal_immegrants.php#comments

The Obama campaign responds:



http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/11/obama_camp_hits_hillary_on_licenses_hillary_would_rather_plant_questions_than_answer_them.php#comments

:shrug:

:eyes:

He'll be in private life no records needed.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Or unclear about her comments today.

Obama is grasping at straws on this.

back at that debate?

she was supportive of his effort to know who was in his state. She said it wasn't a good solution, but that she understood his desire to so something about it. AND that the problem must be addresed asap.

She continues to support him, in this case in his decision NOT to implement the policy. Seriously, what part of that are you having trouble understanding?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21528787/
Page 20:
Russert: Thank you, Brian.
Senator Clinton, Governor of New York Eliot Spitzer has proposed giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. He told the Nashua, New Hampshire, Editorial Board it makes a lot of sense.

Why does it make a lot of sense to give an illegal immigrant a driver's license?

Clinton: Well, what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is fill the vacuum left by the failure of this administration to bring about comprehensive immigration reform. We know in New York we have several million at any one time who are in New York illegally. They are undocumented workers. They are driving on our roads. The possibility of them having an accident that harms themselves or others is just a matter of the odds. It's probability.

So what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is to fill the vacuum. I believe we need to get back to comprehensive immigration reform because no state, no matter how well intentioned, can fill this gap. There needs to be federal action on immigration reform



Page 21:
Russert: Senator Clinton, I just want to make sure of what I heard. Do you, the New York senator, Hillary Clinton, support the New York governor's plan to give illegal immigrants a driver's license?

You told the New Hampshire paper that it made a lot of sense. Do you support his plan?

Clinton: You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays "gotcha." It makes a lot of sense. What is the governor supposed to do? He is dealing with a serious problems. We have failed. And George Bush has failed. Do I think this is the best thing for any governor to do? No. But do I understand the sense of real desperation, trying to get a handle on this? Remember, in New York, we want to know who's in New York. We want people to come out of the shadows.

He's making an honest effort to do it. We should have passed immigration reform.

*crickets*

:D

:)

nt

Read the post again!

They've learned the best way to fight facts is with snarks. :rofl:

Hell, she has to rent a trailer to hold all of her different facts as she travels around.

Geez

Clinton is just laughable in how she refuses to take positions (other than those supporting WAR everywhere).

Yet the Obama camp's reply was lame in it's snideness. It was too clever by half.

She did flip-flop, saying that she now opposes driver licenses for undocumented aliens.

But that leaves Obama stuck with either 1) a clearer flip-flop in the future, since he said unambiguously he supported the DL plan, or 2) he is stuck with a terribly unpopular position. (Unpopular even in a Dem primary)

Bad for Clinton today, but lose-lose for Obama going forward.

(Bet money that Obama will be asked about DLs in the debate tomorrow.)

"But that leaves Obama stuck with either 1) a clearer flip-flop in the future, since he said unambiguously he supported the DL plan, or 2) he is stuck with a terribly unpopular position. (Unpopular even in a Dem primary)"

Though I support licenses for undocumented workers(indeed I give credit to Obama for standing up for it), I was unaware of how dominant the feelings is against it.

Immigration will, but he can just talk about how it showed how much we need immigration reform, most especially securing our border.

No damage.

remains "yes" then it would be a general election decider right off the top.

I agree 100% with Obama on this issue, but his current stated position is explosive, so he will need to climb off that support somehow.

"Elliott Spitzer wouldn't have proposed that if we were securing our borders. We need to do that, and we need to fix our immigration policy."

I think this was an instance where Clinton's political instincts have caused her to compromise her own belief. I would even go so far as to say the Clinton campaign may have asked Spitzer to remove the bill.

Why? Because DL's for undocumented worker's are polling very very badly. Bush has better approval numbers.

Look at the GOP debates, immigration is a huge issue. I mean they're attacking Huckabee for not being for a law that bars the children of illegal immigrants from receiving school funding!

Which makes me sad. Because here I think Obama is staking out a the morally correct if unpopular position and I am afraid he may pay for it dearly.

I cannot imagine that Obama will not at least move to "no opinion... it's a state matter" by tomorrow night.

I get reamed on DU for my traitorous mexican-loving posts, so I'm sure it's plenty rough in the real world.

I doubt Clinton would run "obama supports giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens" ads, but I can easily see Edwards doing mass-mailing pieces on it, and TV ads if he had the money.

For that matter, McCain can use the issue against Obama in NH, since they are competing for the very same independent votes in that open primary.

I was really surprised as to how badly the whole license thing was received.

Maybe I thought some attitudes had changed in the last couple of years.

Oh well.

which makes it the type of issue the media could talk about for months.

Clearly Clinton never stated a preference either way, other than to support Governors doing what they had to in light of the failure of the Federal Gov.

She has said she didn't think it was the best solution but she could understand Spitzers desire/need to do something since the WH and congress had failed to do anything. She has supported HIS decision, first to implement, then to decide against it. I think she was right to do so.

During the last debate, Sen. Clinton said she understood Gov. Spitzer's desire to bring the illegals out of the shadows...and she complimented his desire to tackle the issue of immigration.

That's what she supported....his desire to tackle the issue of immigration. She was basically saying that by dealing with immigration, Gov. Spitzer was trying to lead, since the federal government hasn't done anything.

That's what I took from her comments.

There was mix up over the words "make sense" and applying them to two different things. Did what Spitzer was doing make sense, as in, was it logical? That's one question. Did the plan make sense? That's the same as asking if Hillary was for the plan. Hillary said she thought it was an understandable approach but not the best possible one.

Then a new rule was made up just for Hillary Clinton. She alone has to answer every question yes or no. Unfairness courtesy of John Edwards.

These threads are what MSM mines for comments to show how ridiculous the blogosphere is.

Mr. Anti-war, but said in 04 that there was little difference between his position on Iraq and gw bush's. Mr. Anti-war, but wants to "get our troops out of Iraq and onto the right battlefields of Pakistan." Mr. Transparency, whose own records have disappeared. Mr. candidates should speak without political influence, yet cannot say what would, whould not be on, off the table regarding social security in an Obama admin.


Keep throwing those stones, Obama. You'll end up in the low teens like the other attack dog.

I guess so...what else is new?

Which is how I know he isn't being truthful...

It should only be used to ridicule Republicans who think it means something. We don't need to use their monkey logic. It only encourages them.

all through his campaign.

From a DKos diary:

'First Hillary wouldn't say where she stood on it during the last Democratic debate.

Then after she got criticized, she said she supported it.

"Senator Clinton supports governors like Governor Spitzer who believe they need such a measure to deal with
the crisis caused by this administration's failure to pass comprehensive immigration reform. As President, her
goal will be to pass comprehensive immigration reform that would make this unnecessary," the statement said.
Campaign advisers, pressed to explain her view more clearly, said that she ultimately supports the driver's-
license proposal.

Now Spitzer has withdrawn his support for the plan, and....

Now Hillary is against it.

"I support Governor Spitzer's decision today to withdraw his proposal. As president, I will not support driver's
licenses for undocumented people and will press for comprehensive immigration reform that deals with all of
the issues around illegal immigration including border security and fixing our broken system."

This is exactly the kind of thing that hurt John Kerry in 2004, and allowed Republicans to provide a caricature
of a politician that didn't really stand for anything.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/14/182112/35

than answer them."
This would seem to indicate that the Obama campaign does not use planted shills to control the campaign appearance.

The biggest defense of Hillary PlantGate offered by the Hill advocates is that "all the campaigns do it so its OK", but none have been able to provide any documentation of the Obama, Edwards, or Kucinich campaigns using planted shills. The only documentation offered so far involved Republican campaigns.

Would Obama be stupid enough to make a comment like the one above if his campaign was using shills?
Maybe. He is taking a HUGE risk if his campaign is indeed using shills.
If not, then this makes a GREAT sound byte.

"the Clinton campaign would rather plant their questions than answer them."


”Unlike other candidates, I am not funded by those corporate interests.
I owe them no loyalty, and they have no influence over me or my policies.” ---Dennis Kucinich

So has the Edwards.

GREAT soundbyte.
GREAT bumpersticker.
GREAT sig line.



Someone better tell Hill's Shills.
They are still desperately insisting that "Everybody does it, so its OK".

Two wrongs do not make a right. When Bush did/does it, DUers were/are repulsed by his political chicanery.
To say planting questions is okay when Hillary does it or because the apocryphal "everyone does it" is sheer
hypocrisy.

statement. This shows he WILL be able to fight against Repubs. and he won't need his spouse to help him.

Im seriously officially now SICK of the Clintons. I cant stand 'em anymore. This country really needs NEW, so desperately.

And you're right. We need NEW desperately.

My parents who live in NH are done with them, I can say that much! Just trying to get then to switch from Edwards to Barack! :)

My mother said simply the other day 'how can anyone expect to lead when you have no idea what she stands for?'. For my mom to see that so easily, was very telling, haha.

Maybe you can get them to switch to Obama by pointing out how Edwards lied about taking matching funds for "moral reasons" when we know he originally said he was going to FOREGO them in order to remain competitive? It just shows how phony he is because not only did he claim he "chose" matching funds for moral reasons but he had the nerve to "challenge" Obama and Hillary to do the same! :rofl:

But I will just go with the simplest reason of all, hes a proven loser. Do we really need another Adlai Stevenson situation on our hands? Bringing back one who already lost never does well, at least from what I remember, and nor does ot look good. IE 'Thats all you guys got?'

And don't forget to throw in that he doesn't have enough money to compete in the general if he DID win the nomination!

Welcome to DU BTW! :hi:

Ive been reading DU since 03, joined in 04, just dont post much! I get too stressed out reading, nevermind arguing with everyone, HAHA!

Well, welcome to making yourself seen at the DU, Ghost. :D

It's incredible how she can take so many sides on any issue and look straight into the camera and say she's serious!!

to support your ridiculous claim.

From a DKos diary:

'First Hillary wouldn't say where she stood on it during the last Democratic debate.

Then after she got criticized, she said she supported it.

"Senator Clinton supports governors like Governor Spitzer who believe they need such a measure to deal with
the crisis caused by this administration's failure to pass comprehensive immigration reform. As President, her
goal will be to pass comprehensive immigration reform that would make this unnecessary," the statement said.
Campaign advisers, pressed to explain her view more clearly, said that she ultimately supports the driver's-
license proposal.

Now Spitzer has withdrawn his support for the plan, and....

Now Hillary is against it.

"I support Governor Spitzer's decision today to withdraw his proposal. As president, I will not support driver's
licenses for undocumented people and will press for comprehensive immigration reform that deals with all of
the issues around illegal immigration including border security and fixing our broken system."

This is exactly the kind of thing that hurt John Kerry in 2004, and allowed Republicans to provide a caricature
of a politician that didn't really stand for anything.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/14/182112/35

Senator Clinton supports governors like Governor Spitzer...


There has been no flip flop here. It was always about her supporting Spitzer.

Campaign advisers, pressed to explain her view more clearly, said that she ultimately supports the driver's-license proposal.

its a pundit spun statement. I disregard it with no equivocation.

Wow! Just shows how evasive she IS when she's able to make a statement that those who support her can claim she never said something. Just like Bush never said Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

to go along with that?

:rofl:

:rofl:

it doesn't change the fact you need a decoder ring to figure out Hillary's position.

:rofl:

I welcome an effort on your part to prove otherwise.

Finger in the wind...

And the attacks against her on this are so much bullshit. If you want to attack for not taking a position on the actual driver license issue till now, then go for it. But there was never a conflicting statement you can quote.

She did and she didn't and she did. She said Spitzer's plan made a lot of sense. In the same debate, Dodd said she just said she thought it made a lot of sense and she answered, "No, I didn't." You can quote her all you want. She tried to have it both ways that night and now she changed again.

SEN. DODD: Wait a minute. No, no, no. You said yes, you thought it made sense to do it.

` SEN. CLINTON: No, I didn't, Chris. But the point is, what are we going to do with all these illegal immigrants who are (driving ?) -- (inaudible)?

...

MR. RUSSERT: Do you support his plan?

SEN. CLINTON: You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays gotcha. It makes a lot of sense. What is the governor supposed to do? He is dealing with a serious problem. We have failed, and George Bush has failed...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/us/politics/30debate-transcript.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

There are not two conflicting positions there.

Howz that?

LoL

Not just your silly opinion.

Also, pot meet kettle! You were in Clinton's camp, um, last week? Or was two weeks ago!

Who are you going to be for next week, ummmmmm???

People are waking up.

More and more people will wake up and realize that Hillary is the best candidate.

:sarcasm:

But, stick a fork in her, she's done already!!

Hillary has run the worst campaign I've ever seen for someone who was supposedly so smart and politically savvy.

smiles, and enjoys the fight!

While sitting on one of the largest war chests in the campaign.

Yeah what a horrible campaign she has run. :sarcasm:

At least you have the right screenname.

and that could change everything. I remember Wes Clark was winning in NH but after Kerry won IA he went on to win NH, too.

by replacing Wes Clark with Howard Dean. Hillary's Howard Dean. :hi:

The record for the winner of IA securing the nomination is mixed (about 50/50)

The last 2 elections have seen winners in IA go onto the nomination for different reasons. Al Gore was a heavy favorite. Kerry came out from a tight pack.

:popcorn:

Being in the position of supporting Obama and loathing Hillary, I love the statement - but not nearly as much as I love reading this thread.

:popcorn:

It's a safety issue, period.