Why are politicians demonized on DU?

Good politicians, those that are good at what they do, are in the business of winning elections, so that they can actually implement change instead of just talking about it.

Effective politicians at times have to twist the truth, scheme, manipulate, strategize (within certain moral boundaries)and take money from people they don't like.

Politicians who do NOT do the aforementioned things, when needed in the course of a campaign, do not win. They are on a, perhaps, noble self righteous journey that satisfyingly validates their feelings and those of their supporters, but they, in the end, will not actually ACCOMPLISH the goal of seizing power to effect policy.

Savvy Republic voters understand this and let their politicians be politicians without much, if any, self flagellation. But there is an element of the Democratic party that does not understand our political system, at a very fundamental level, and truly believes that just nobly speaking truth to power actually gets things done.

All of the above was just as true in 1907 and 1807 as it is today in 2007.

I am not being jaded or cynical. This is just fact. It is how politics works in this country, and it is a truism as old as dirt.

the people, grassroots & those who are unable to speak for themselves instead of corporations and lobbyists which both the DNC and the RNC do anymore.

You say: " But there is an element of the Democratic party that does not understand our political system, at a very fundamental level, and truly believes that just nobly speaking truth to power actually gets things done."

I don't think that statement by you is necessarily true maybe in some cases but not as a whole. I think it is happening out of frustration, nothing getting done especially for the people anyway. Also, as far as republicans and democrats, it is a well known fact that the republicans have always marched to orders because they are not a democratic group. Democrats generally do not just believe something because it has been said. Democrats question most things which is why we are consider rebel rousers by the other side and why it is us that protest wars and demonstrate for causes. It is not about just attacking politicians, it is about getting the job done, fairness to all and help for those who need it and don't have a voice to speak for themselves.

An example of this would be we elected democrats to bring change and an end to the war in the last election. You have two top democrats in leadership of the house and the senate and they are flat out ignoring the grassroots and the people of this nation on a number of things and enabling GWB to continue like he has a mandate. That is why people are upset. You have people like Senator Feinstein in CA, Senator Schumer in New York regardless of a man refusing to acknowledge torture, they assist GWB in putting him in the position of AG. They are not listening to their constituents and the people such as us. We have a right to question those kind of acts.

would rarely implement real change. Second, many politicians are worshiped here and that is why the attacks exist on different candidates. Because people look upon them (the ones they pick) as sainted deliverers from republican evil (no matter what their real positions are).

Let's face it, posting here isn't about changing the world ~ we can sure put our time and talents to far better use.

How about effective corporate auditors? Do they at times have to twist the truth?

have a noble, idealistic, and incorrect view of politics.

and know it has nothing to do with idealism, but realism. Double speakers double speak for reasons.

I think you answer your own question.

"Politicians" are all about winning - which they define as seizing and maintaining power, through whatever means necessary. They place little value on integrity, principle and doing what's "right" unless it serves to advance their professional aspirations. They will say anything...do anything it takes to collect power. Worst of all, "politicians" promote and perpetuate a flawed, broken, corrupt system, whereby an appeal to "the public interest" is only a campaign gimmick.

What's to celebrate?

Twisting the truth may indeed be effective, but if you need to do that what the hell do you really stand for? What you really wrote is a damning indictment on the state of politics today, and the perceived idea that lying (which is what "twisting the truth" really means.Let's not kid each other and hide behind gentler and kinder words) is now just part of the game.How low are we going to keep setting the bar before we get it?

"The truth never damages a cause that is just." - Ghandi

administration and the books and documents long blocked to investigations would find a Dem president willing to cooperate with those investigations and allow the access needed.

What happened?


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html



We were TRICKED into thinking we would HAVE an open government that believed in the citizenry's right to know.

And some Democrats are insisting we do it again to protect Bush2.

It does seem to depend a lot on getting voters to reject one candidate after another. By the time the general election rolls around, people ALWAYS complain about "the lesser of two evils." (Well, not all people.)

And I totally agree that politics is a dirty game. I don't think we should expect politicians to be saints, moral compasses, or purely principled in every way. If they were, they wouldn't be successful politicians. It's the nature of the beast.

You're asking why we demonize people who manipulate us, scheme, and lie to us so that they can "seize power"?

Seriously?

I think you could lose the phrase "in the course of a campaign", by the way. Something about that phrase reminds me of "morning sickness" - which I quickly discovered was a 24/7 adventure.

simply the way to attack politicians one does not prefer. But then there is also an ignorance factor.

Americans prefer to be lied to - I've known that for decades. I may not enjoy seeing it, but there it is. If that's what it takes, I'll try not to look too closely at the sausage being made.

But I want them to be effective at stopping, and then reversing, the worst excesses of the Republicans at the very least. I don't need them to be saints. I need them to be Democrats.

personally, I find "twisting the truth,", aka LYING, "manipulating," and "taking money from people they don't like," aka prostituting themselves and corrupting their work in office, to be well beyond my moral boundaries.

I wouldn't put up with that crap from anyone I hired. Why should I put up with it from the people hired with my vote to represent me?

The worst of it is that when they LIE, they are usually lying to voters about their positions and their intentions.

Tired of them and also starting to hate the system itself. Regardless if its how "things always have been done". That doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

Your comparisons to 1907 and 1807 are meaningless as far as I am concerned. People didn't really know what was going on back then. Now we have a 24 hour news cycle and the net, so we know everything they say and everything they do almost right away and can pull up the voting records right away, etc. Since we see so much more then in days of old we see that they do nothing when they get into office, while saying bullshit to get there. Also they all seem more beholden to corporate interests today more so then any other time in our history, meaning the average person means less to them then ever before. We are collectively getting sold down the river it seems, and though it also seemed that way leading up to the 1929 crash, we as a people are more aware of it today.

People are fed up, and angry and tired of it and its something thats growing. Personally I am glad that the masses are slowing starting to get more and more angry. Its the only way that can potentially lead to real change. I won't hold my breathe though.

and I like to think we Dems are "supposed to" care more about character and honesty along with the political sleeze than the Repugs care about any of that in the last decades. :shrug: