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Clinton's Debate Success Explained:

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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 05:18 PM
Original message
Clinton's Debate Success Explained:
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 05:33 PM by EV_Ares
A couple of postscripts to last week's Democratic debate -- not so much a debate as a chaotic interview of a gang of candidates in front of a Las Vegas crowd accustomed to prize fights and cheering for their favorite (Hillary Clinton) and booing the bad guy (John Edwards, when he criticized their favorite).

The low point came right at the end when Maria Luisa, a UNLV student, asked Clinton if she preferred diamonds or pearls. True to form, Clinton straddled the answer, saying she likes them both. CNN admitted the next day that a producer allegedly seeking to end the event on a light note gave the question to the student.

As an embarrassed Luisa explained on MySpace, everybody was asked to submit questions, including light-hearted ones. She had wanted to ask Clinton about Nevada's Yucca Mountain as a potential repository for nuclear waste, but at the last second was told to ask her pearls-diamonds question.

Later she wrote on MySpace: "Every question from the audience was pre-planned and censored . . . do not judge me or my integrity based on that question."

NOTE: Critique of Debate: Speaking of integrity, what in the world was CNN thinking when it booked its post-debate analysts to appear with Anderson Cooper? One was J.C. Watts, the former GOP congressman from Oklahoma. Fine, a token Republican. Another was Gloria Borger, an experienced pro.

The other two: James Carville and David Gergen. That's right, two former aides of Bill Clinton were asked to appraise the debate performances of the opponents of their ex-boss's wife. Predictably, they thought she did swell and Barack Obama didn't.

Cooper neglected to mention in his introduction that Carville is a clear supporter of Hillary Clinton. He wrote an e-mail fundraising letter for her Feb. 22 -- "Hillary is the strongest candidate Democrats have" -- and on "Meet the Press" on June 3 announced that he was not only a contributor to her campaign but was going to vote for her too.

Now, that's the kind of open mind you want "analyzing" her opponents.

What the polls measure, and don't

There's a new poll out in the Granite State by the University of New Hampshire Survey Center -- one of many we're likely to see as interest grows in the early primary, likely Jan. 8.

This poll shows Hillary Clinton leading Democrats with 35%, Barack Obama with 21%, John Edwards with 15%, Bill Richardson with 10% and all the others in a single-digit bunch. For the Republicans, it shows Mitt Romney in the lead with 32%, Rudy Giuliani second with 20%, John McCain third with 17%, a surging Ron Paul with lots of money up from 2% to 7%, Mike Huckabee at 5% and all the others, including Fred Thompson, below that.

But that's not the most important result. What's most important is the little-noticed numbers revealing that with slightly less than two months to go before the voting, 48% of Democrats and fully 60% of Republicans remain undecided.

Now that's a volatile setting, just made for stunning surprises in the nation's first primary vote.

Gore Watch: The end?

Oh, no! No more Gore Watch?

No more seizing on every strand of hope -- his daughter's wedding, his appearance on an NBC TV show, his sighting at a global environmental concert in New Jersey of all places -- that the 2000 Democratic presidential candidate would become the 2008 Democratic presidential candidate and save the party from more planted questions, who can get out of Iraq faster and who to tax more next.

"I don't expect to be a candidate again," he told the New York Times. Maybe they got it wrong and he really said, "I do intend to be a candidate again." But it doesn't look good for the Draft Gore movement.

It seems that Big Al has signed on with an industrial alliance promoting a string of new coal-fired electrical generating plants in the Ohio Valley. They wanted someone with both environmental and Washington credentials to explain the benefits of acid rain on "Larry King Live" and elsewhere.

Just kidding. Gore's actually taken a part-time partnership in a Silicon Valley venture capital firm called Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, where he'll devote time to investigating the potential of new green industries, especially the growth potential of start-up companies in the alternative energy sector.

Gore already has an advisory role with Google in the Bay Area, sits on the board of Apple and is founder of Current TV, the San Francisco-based cable channel you've never heard of because it's devoted to viewer-created material.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-ticket18nov18,0,5119100.story?coll=la-home-nation


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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. SUCH an explanation
Isn't it odd the opponents of Hillary Clinton twist themselves in knots trying to put her down. You should be twisting yourself in knots trying to explain why your candidate constantly bombs.

Course you people must roam and streets and stand on street corners trying to persuade the citizens that they aren't voting for Hillary and that she is winning the polls. Go to it if you can;.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. True facts are hard to take aren't they? At least they are facts and not
just some so and so says like you post so much.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. I Can See You Never Played Team Sports
If you did you would have learned how to lose (and) win graciously...

Hillary Clinton owned Obama and Edwards... They should learn from their mistakes and move on...
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. LOL, coming from you, I will take that comment with a grain of salt,
(graciously, you need to learn that one). Evidently you don't know team sports yourself or you would not have made such a comment to someone you don't know about playing or not playing team sports.

The question as always is it true? Yes, anyone who watched would be able to acknowledge that.

You and bitwit need to provide more links instead of your own opinions but that is understandable. Try supporting your candidiate instead of running around to every post that you don't like.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. The Board Has Been Littered With Stories By Impartial Pundits That Hillary Owned Obama And Edwards..
It's disingenuous of you to pretend you never seen them...
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Lets just turn that around which is the truth about impartial posts or
pundits that the debate was stacked with Hillary supporters including some DUers who were there in person and the questions set up of which more is starting to come out now. Pretty disingenuous of you to not acknowledge them.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Like This Guy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3725977


The last time I saw somebody got beat up as bad as Johnny Boy was the guy in the white trunks...Scroll to the 55 second mark:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h9xMgvOxmY
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. The fight was a good clip, thanks but as far as anything else, not much
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 06:32 PM by EV_Ares
correlation. I do however appreciate conversing with you regarding Hillary much more than most of her supporters on here who only attack and bash anyone not agreeing with them. I see no reason for anyone having to attack the other one just because we don't agree. I doubt you or I are ever going to agree on her and I have not made my mind up yet about Obama, Edwards or Kucinich or even Biden. But I know I prefer any of them over Hillary and think any of them would be the better candidate to represent the democratic Party. One thing for certain, the country will be just as divided with her and it is now with George Bush which certainly will be unfortunate.

However, I do appreciate your take and presentation on the matter. I will try to be just as good on my part with you.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thank You
Mike Tyson-Great fighter-lousy human being... Michael Spinks was so intimidated by him he couldn't even break a sweat in the dressing room before the fight as boxers customarily do...

My hero was Muhammad Ali!!!
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Ali is still one of mine. Yeah, the spink brothers. However, as far as
handling their personal lives, don't believe they had much of a chance there, grew up in the projects and one of the worst at that. However, yeah, you are right, lousy human being.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. No-Mike Tyson Was
Leon Spinks was a clown...Michael Spinks was an accomplished boxer...He was a champion for a very long time and beat Larry Holmes, albeit an aged Larry Holmes, twice...

Did you see the movie American Gangster?

The first Ali-Frazier fight is part of the background and Russell Crowe's character says this isn't a fight it's politics... If you were on the left you supported Ali...If you were on the right you supported Frazier... It might not have been fair to Frazier but that's how it played out...
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. No I intend to but had to go see Beowulf last night, hope to see it soon.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Great Flick
I saw "Before The Devil Knows You're Dead " yesterday
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Probably will have to catch it on dvd, will have to check Netflix.
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 07:16 PM by EV_Ares
I like Ethan Hawke, Albert Finney is great, remember they were in it. Thanks for reminding me as that was one I wanted to see but didn't. It is only showing at one theatre here. Might get a chance to catch it. Also want to see Into the Wild.
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. We all may have reservations about Hillary...
but you have to give her credit for immediately firing back at attacks from the wanna-be's. She has a political polish and the will to 'fight' not seen in the other candidates...or Demss in general in leadership positions.

A fighter! Wow. I get this mental picture of Hillary as president, calling Pelosi, Hoyer, and Reid into the Oval Office and growing them a spine.

As she gears up for the GE, I find her taking stands and supporting those stands far more than the other candidates. The others spend much of their time attacking her instead of paying attention to business. Campaigning is a learning experience. Hillary appears to be the only pro involved.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Like her stand on Iraq and Iran. Right along with Georgie's stand, eom.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I Think Johnny Boy Was A Co-Sponsor Of The IWR Along With Joe Lieberman
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. What was noteworthy about that debate was the inappropriate behavior of the audience.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. That is what it is becoming known for with more and more coming
out about it all the time. Guess you can say, stay tuned for the updates.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. ROTFLMFAO
Fans of losing sports teams blame the refs...Fans of losing candidates blame the audience...

Sore losers...
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. the evolution of political spin
Like you said, watch this space. :)
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. When I Was A Kid And My Team Lost We Walked Over To The Other Team And Shook Their Hands
If we whined about it we had to find new things to occupy our afternoons after school and weekends...


There's no crying in politics...

LOL
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. You need to tell your girl about that, eom.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. That Is One Woman Or Person That I Don't Think Would Ever Cry
The crap she has put up with Bill didn't break her, nothing will...
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I don't know why you are gloating.
It's not like Clinton didn't have her ass handed to her in the last debate. Oh wait, she did. And such is the ebb and flow of the political season.

And, um, my comment was on the unruly audience, one which I have no doubt you found to be perfectly fine, but the behavior was nonetheless boorish and inappropriate.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. I Disapprove Of Rude Behavior
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 07:12 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
But I wonder how many tears were shed for Dan Quayle when Lloyd Bentsen told him "he was no Jack Kennedy" and the crowd guffawed...That's what happens in public debates...

As to the first debate The Hill did fine until the last five minutes despite it being four against one... In the Phili debate The Hill knocked out Edwards and Obama in the first five minutes...

I'd like to see The Hill debate her seven opponents, mano a mano, in succession on the same night (that's how confident I am ) in a loser leaves politics match... I think all of them with the exception of Joe Biden would be looking for new careers...
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Would appreciate your take on this. First of all I disagreed with the
entire matter of drivers license when they were going after Hillary and I thought she gave a good answer the first time. Talking about when she said GB failed, they failed and Spitzer's answer may not be the best, etc. Personally, I agreed with him and understood what he was trying to do. When Barak tried to answer his way and this is not a yes or no answer which Hillary finally succumbed and just said no and really can't blame her.

Anyhow, my point is it seems to me the media and the republicans are just using the dam thing for an issue against the dems.

It is more complicated than a yes or no.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. The Rethugs Intend To Use Immigration As A Wedge Issue
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 07:21 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
I'm not troubled by undocumented workers getting drivers licenses but I'm not willing to lose an election over it... There are times to make a stand...This issue isn't one of them...

Obama get himself in the same "mess" as HRC... They both were reluctant to turn a complex issue into a soundbite... Of course,undocumented workers are going to drive...It makes sense they do so legally...
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. None of this gives viewers much credit. I'm sure they saw for themselves who did better, boos aside.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. There you go, I know what I saw and I know I can make a determination
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 06:50 PM by EV_Ares
about the questions asked and of who. Good point. Unfortunately, I got caught up in arguing about the whole thing myself.
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