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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 08:56 AM
Original message
Krugman vs. Krugman
Krugman vs. Krugman

By Ruth Marcus
Wednesday, November 21, 2007; A17

In liberal Democratic circles, the debate over Social Security has taken a dangerous "don't worry, be happy" turn.

The argument has two equally dishonest components. The first is to deny that Social Security faces a daunting financing problem -- one that will be much easier to fix (and less onerous for the low-income retirees that the head-in-the-sanders purport to care about) sooner rather than later. The second is to mischaracterize the arguments of those who advocate responsible action, accusing them of hyping the system's woes.

One prominent practitioner of this misguided approach is New York Times columnist Paul Krugman. "Inside the Beltway, doomsaying about Social Security -- declaring that the program as we know it can't survive the onslaught of retiring baby boomers -- is regarded as a sort of badge of seriousness, a way of showing how statesmanlike and tough-minded you are," Krugman wrote last week. "In fact, the whole Beltway obsession with the fiscal burden of an aging population is misguided."

Somebody should introduce Paul Krugman to . . . Paul Krugman.

<>The brunt of Krugman's ire is directed at Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama for daring to suggest an increase in the amount of income subject to Social Security payroll taxes -- and using the "c" word (crisis) in an interview with National Journal's Linda Douglass. Krugman says the Illinois senator is being "played for a fool" by raising concerns about Social Security and criticizing Hillary Clinton for ducking the issue.

Hard to square with Krugman of 1996, who praised "sensible proposals" to "slow the growth in benefit levels, gradually raise the retirement age . . . and -- last but not least -- raise taxes moderately now, rather than massively later."

much more Krugman vs. Krugman...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/20/AR2007112001651_pf.html
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. increase regressive tax
so that the government can have more money to spend on war and other bullshit.

How 'bout this Ms. Marcus bitch, let's cut back the social security tax to eliminate the surplus which isn't being saved as promised and let the federal government raise the federal income tax to fund the war. How 'bout that for a fucking solution.
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Imperialism Inc. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:32 AM
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2. The crisis that isn't
Probably the most important part of the article is where the author at least seems to acknowledge that SS is not a crisis.

Here is a good recent article by Dean Baker (of the American Prospect magazine and Center for Economic and Policy Research).


The crisis that isn't
Here's what you won't hear in the mainstream US media: America's social security system is not in danger of collapse

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/dean_baker/2007/11/the_crisis_that_isnt.html

As Clinton rightly pointed out, the projected problems with social security are distant and relatively minor. There is no reason that she needs to develop a plan for plugging a hole that is not projected to arise until 2046, almost thirty years after the latest date that she can leave the White House.

Obama's own plan called for raising the income cap on the payroll tax, which would be a modest tax increase on upper middle income workers, and a very substantial tax increase on the highest paid workers. Proposing tax increases is not generally a smart way to win elections, but Obama clearly hoped to be rewarded with positive news stories and editorials, and praise for his courage from the print and broadcast pundits. His plan did earn him some praise from these quarters, but not enough to raise him from his second place standing in the polls.

While Obama's attack can be dismissed as simply bad political judgment, the deeper issue is that attacking social security has so much resonance with the media elite. This group has been blatantly ignoring and/or misrepresenting the facts in its attacks on Social Security for almost two decades. They have used their power over the news to force politicians to respond to their agenda, praising those who advance their social security crisis story and damning those who try to keep the projections in perspective.

...snip...

If it is necessary to make up a social security shortfall, will people in 2050 prefer to retire later, get lower benefits, or pay higher taxes? We don't have any real basis for answering this question. Furthermore, the people alive in 2050 will not care how we did answer the question. The country will almost certainly reshape the social security program at least once before 2050 regardless of what we might choose to write into law in the next few years.

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. After all these years of reading Krugman, I've never heard him use the term "crisis"
Edited on Wed Nov-21-07 09:47 AM by cryingshame
he has CONSISTENTLY warned against using that term especially since it's used on a regular basis by rightwingers who want to kill off SS by privatizing it.

Being sensible and planning ahead need not warrant Obama's inserting the word 'crisis' into the debate.

That has been his point in referring to Obama.

Ruth Marcus either has reading comprehension problems or an agenda.

edit- I just found an editorial by Marcus where she was approving of a plan to partially privatize SS.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Somebody should introduce Paul Krugman to Paul Krugman. Read what he's said...
Somebody should introduce Paul Krugman to . . . Paul Krugman.

"A decade from now the population served by those programs will explode. . . . Because of those facts, merely balancing the federal budget would be a deeply irresponsible policy -- because that would leave us unprepared for the demographic deluge, with no alternative once it arrives except to raise taxes and slash benefits." (July 11, 2001)

"Broadly speaking, the next administration . . . will face two big economic tests. One . . . is whether it can stick to a fiscal policy, including a policy toward Social Security, that prepares this country for the demographic deluge." (Nov. 12, 2000)

"The reason Social Security is in trouble is that the system has a large 'hole' -- basically a hidden debt -- because previous generations of retirees were paid benefits out of the contributions of younger workers . . . a multitrillion-dollar debt that somebody has to pay." (Oct. 1, 2000)

"Because the baby boomers' contributions were used to provide generous benefits to earlier generations, there isn't enough money in the system to pay the benefits promised to the boomers themselves." (June 21, 2000)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/20/AR2007112001651_pf.html
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themaguffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. It not being a crisis & its funds being raided can both be happening
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Krugman: "Where is the crisis? Just over the horizon, that's where..." Read article to the end.
"Where is the crisis? Just over the horizon, that's where. . . . Responsible adults are supposed to plan more than seven years ahead. Yet if you think even briefly about what the Federal budget will look like in 20 years, you immediately realize that we are drifting inexorably toward crisis; if you think 30 years ahead, you wonder whether the Republic can be saved."

Another Beltway doomsayer? No, Paul Krugman, responsible adult.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/20/AR2007112001651_pf.html
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Tellingly, Krugman chose not to respond to this statement of his.
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Imperialism Inc. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. More from Dean Baker
This article has more numbers.


Bat Boy Lives! As Do Myths About Social Security
http://www.cepr.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1359

...snip...

the baby boomers' retirement has already been financed.

Back in 1983, when Social Security really was running out of money, with just a few months of payments on hand, Congress raised the payroll tax substantially. This was done deliberately in order to pile up a surplus to finance the baby boomers' retirement. And so it did: that accumulated surplus stands at more than two trillion dollars today, and is increasing at a rate of $190 billion annually.

As a result of this surplus, all the baby boomers' will have retired before Social Security runs into a projected shortfall in 2041. That is according to the Social Security's (mostly Republican-appointed) Trustees. According to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, Social Security can pay all promised benefits even longer, until 2046. By either date, most baby boomers will be dead, and almost all of the rest retired, before there is a problem.

Of course, there are some who maintain that the surplus "has been spent," that the Social Security Trust Fund "doesn't exist," and so on. These stories should be given all the credibility of reports about "Bat Boy" sightings in the Weekly World News. But unfortunately they are often taken seriously in the major media.

To say that Social Security's surplus "has been spent," is like saying that when you buy a U.S. government bond, your money "has been spent." Whatever has been done with the money, you are still holding a bond, and you will get your interest and principal so long as there is a US government. If there is no US government when you retire, well then you will have other things to worry about than Social Security, including your private savings.

...more...
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antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. Krugman has responded
As for what I wrote in 1996: the world looked very different then. On one side, Social Security projections were much more pessimistic than they are now, basically because the projections assumed that the 1973-1995 era of very slow productivity growth would go on forever. On the other side, the 90s were the era of the great pause in health expenditures, the (it turned out) brief era in which the rise of managed care stabilized health spending as a share of GDP. So Medicare and Medicaid looked less important as sources of fiscal problems than they do now.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/they-hate-me-they-really-hate-me/
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. I don't see any inconsistency
Krugman was talking about the necessary maintenance and now he is talking about not scrapping the whole system but doing the necessary maintenance.

This writer must be scoring huge points for the cocktail parties.

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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. No Democrat is talking about scrapping the whole system.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ruth Marcus is wrong, and decisively lost this exchange
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Smack downs of Marcus' nonsense
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