How Will You Deal with Your Right-Wing Relatives...

...during Thanksgiving?

Will you...

Stay away from political conversations?
Temporarily agree with them to keep the peace?
Bring boat-loads of information to support your positions?

Who out there, is already thinking about a possible confrontation with a relative?

Just curious. I need some advice.

-Paige

that we are not under Martial Law

Or should I wait until tomorrow to answer the question?

That would be a great question to ask on Friday.

"Tell us what happened with your RW relatives during Thanksgiving."

...could be more interesting.

-Paige

I don't have a single right-wing relative anymore. The last one gave it up after no WMD turned up in Iraq. It'll be dozens of happy lefties tomorrow! :)

Good luck to you, though.

I'm the only lefty.


I'll be just observing. Anything I say is discarded as liberal propaganda. I'll be looking for changes, mainly on climate change.

...I'd wear a pirate suit. They'd HAVE to take your seriously then. No one want to chance pissin' off a pirate.

Well, that's MY theory, anyway.

A pirate suit... Dang too funny!

"Cliff, why are you wearing a pirate suit to Thanksgiving!?!".

"A pirate suit!?! Why do you say this is a pirate suit?"

"Well you've got the knee length boots, thick belt, scabbard, parrot on your shoulder..."

"Well there you go, that's something maybe you need to think about. Are pirates the only ones to dress this way? I mean, yes, mostly only pirates dress this way, but obviously, statistics tell us that at least a couple others wore similar cloths who weren't pirates at all. So in this case it seems to me that you are jumping to conclusions!"

I pitty you...just ignore them. :-)

We've got two RWs at the table tomorrow.

We don't discuss politics, plain and simple.

If we did, they would be no family gatherings, period.

It's difficult, but it can be done.

Good luck, tomorrow.

:pals:

from where grandma keeps kicking me under the table every time I start to put 'em in their place. I can get my son in law to drink until he's so shitfaced he isn't a problem but there's a couple of nephews and nieces that are totally full of the kool aid and are so far gone they don't get sarcasm. They don't even seem to notice when you openly laugh at them. My kids aren't much help either - they're more or less apolitical.

Being "so far gone" that they don't get the sarcasm...I've got one of those. What the hell do you do??? It's like..."If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand."

=Paige

Some may disagree with me here BUT it is a family holiday and this helps keep the peace. If the other side persists in egging you on, tell such person it is not the time nor the place. I have family members in "mixed marriages" (liberal/conservative, dems/repugs) and this is really the only way to survive.

One may think this is a time to explain the other's side lack of understanding and compassion for their fellow man BUT, believe you me, this is not going to happen. It can only cause tears and very loud disagreements.

It is THANKSGIVING, remember.

Peace,

LA

You said, "I have family members in "mixed marriages" (liberal/conservative, dems/repugs) and this is really the only way to survive." Do you mean liberals and conservatives married to each other? Dems and repugs married to each other? How can that be? Maybe they have been married a long time? It seems to me that ever since the Clinton impeachment, the country is so polarized that such a "mixed couple" wouldn't make it past a date or two, let alone get married. Seriously? I can't possibly date a repug myself.

Maria Shriver & Arnold Schwarzenegger. I always wondered what that conversation was like..

Mary Matalin and James Carville. In that case, I always figured they were just shills. In the case of Arnold and Maria, I just don't know. However, they got married before things became quite so polarized. I used to date an R way back when. I tried to win him over. Back then I didn't feel like I do now. I used to think they were just misguided. Now I feel like they are either actively trying to destroy our country or at least passively sitting by and letting their leaders destroy our country.

last sentance....

:evilgrin:

Sorry. I would change the subject. Holidays are supposed to be happy times.

Steely_Dan

Dont be polite, tell them what YOU feel, what YOU know.. Give him/her the profe that your Administration are out for some really, really bad shit...

Dont be silent, just becouse its a holliday, and you have to be polite with your relatives.. if he really are your familiy, he wil respect that hi/shi is in your life, and make a sivilized conservation about the issue...

I don't be polite with my relatives - if I am not in agreement with them.. I tell them the truth, as I see it.. And if they dosent like it, they know where the door are... Holliday or no holliday...

Or, you can let down the rules. NO politic what so ever when you are together.. Not a single word about mr Bush, his Facist tendensies, and the whole thing that is outside the house.. Get the rule down, from before he/she is inside the house. And be werry clear about it. Then, maybee then you also can have a great holliday...

I dont selebrate Thanksgiving, becouse I am not from US.. But its looks like a great holliday, with the Turky and it all;)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language:

...on the English, my friend. We totally understood where you were coming from.

Speaking of which...where are you from?

LOL

-Paige

Steely_Dan

Good:)

I am from Norway, a little country in the north of Europe.. A Kindom, our monark is Harald V of Norway. Our Queen is Sonja, we have a crownprince named Haakon, and a crownprincess named Mette-Marit..

We are one of the Werry few country in the world, with no forreign debt.. And a lot of money to spend:P.. Thanks tou our welth in the Nort Sea (oil) and a lot of hard work over the last thousand year or so.. Even a rockbaren nation can be suvirvable when cultivated right you know;)

http://www.norge.no/kart/ Its in Norwigian, but I guess you too can find it on engelish, somewhere... Here it is
http://www.norway.no/Default.asp?

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

and don't worry about your grammar. You're doing better than most of the freepers and they were born here.

benddem

That's is a kind of reelef, that better than many of the freepers who are born in the US.. Or maybee it is a warning to the educatioal boards in many states?

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

I saw a site the other day that had a very systematized way of ranking countries according to their civil liberties, press freedom, and democracy. I wish I could remember where I found it. Anyway, Norway ranked tops in all those categories. It gave me another country to consider if it gets to the point where I need to flee this one. I don't want to get caught in all the fascism, but I really don't want to leave my home.

Andrea

Norway have been werry lucky the last 100 year or so. If you think about it. In 3 generations, Norway have goon from a werry poor nation, at the same level as Albania an other verry, verry pooor nations in the east of europe, to one of the most prosperous and rich country I guess I have to say, that we have been werry lucky with our gifts.. When my Gran-Grand father and mother was born, Norway was one of the most poor country in the world. In fact If I think it righ, my grand-grand fathers and mothers was citiziens of Sweden-Norway, becouse of between 1814 and 1905 Norway was under the same crown as Sweeden.. And in 3-4 generations we have been building a nation who are ranked one of the best... That is a amazing fate if you think that Norway was extremely poor when we as at last independed in 1905 and have our own King and a independed Storting (Our parlament)...

Yes, It was a report from the UN, and that pointed Norway, like Denmark, Finland Sweden and Iceland as one of the best countrys to live in.. Ok not everything is perfect, by far, but we have doing it good, if we have coming into the top 5 the last 5 years both when it come to press freedom, civil liberties, and most important democracy.. United States is on the 17s plase, and have been ranked DOWN many times since the Administration of GWB was coming to power...

If you deside to travel to our nation, and settle down her, you wil learn that norwigian can be hard to come into, be known with.. But if you broke the "ice" and get into a norwigian, you may get a friend for your life.. As one put it once.. We can be hard to be known with, but if you manage to known with us, you wil get a friend for life...

Off course I understand that you dont want to flee your own country, and leave everything you have there.. I would have feeled the same way, if I was in your pants, or in your situation.. It is allways verry hard to emigrate to another country, you dosent just leeve your current life for something else, you are living all your life, everything you once was, and have to build up your new life.. And that is harder and harder how longer you get I guess..

But, you wil be welcome here, if you need another country I hope.. Our goverment can be verry "stupid" sometimes, But with the right attiude, and the right luck, you may get a life here.. We need good peopole, even that they are americans;). And the norwigian language is not that dificult to learn, and for the most part, norwigian are pretty good in engelish... Better than I am anyway;)

I hope US can get their act togheter, and trow this extremist out of office, and out of public life.. I hope that both mainstream, and other medias are getting the message and learn that this type of regime canot be tolerated anymore in the US public life.. A purge of all neo-cons in public life, with the corts is the most important tool I guess. And a repeal of ALL the unjust laws that mr Bush and his Cronies have made into law.. It can be doon, but it wil be a hard, verry hard way... You have to find ALL the LAW, not just the biggest and most known laws, who have to be purget from the sustem.. And that is not a easy task. It tock Germany more than 10 year before the sivil law of Germany was free of NAZI-era laws.. And even today you can find remedies from that area in the german law code.. But thank for us all, the law is verry seldom used, and for the most part, silencely taking out of sirculation.. The same must happening in the US Senate and Congress...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

Thank you for the interesting background on Norway and your kind hopes. I also appreciate your sense of humor. Your English is good enough to get your humor across, so that is very good. ("We need good people, even that they are Americans ;-) " -- very good).

I'm so glad when I see people from other countries on these boards. I hope you tell all your friends that most people in the U.S. don't support Bush and we are very sorry about the evil things he has done in our name. Thank you.

I asked one (politely) at the last get together who she was voting for, wondering if it would be guiliani or romney or Paul. She said Hillary. I think my eyebrows went up over the top of my head and back down the other side.

The other is working overseas, and his immigrant wife (who is very nice) is having to deal with being here alone, convincing immigration officials that yes, yes, it really IS a real marriage, no, they aren't living together, no the husband isn't currently residing in the US. She can't go stay with him because if she leaves the country for a year that affects her status and she may not be allowed back to work. I don't understand all the intricacies of that, but I hope it gives him a new perspective on all the republican xenophobic crap.

I think my eyebrows went up over the top of my head and back down the other side.


Hysterical!!

I've had it out with my brother and we just don't share holidays anymore. There's no Norman Rockwell painting of our family. However, in the past when confronted with your situation, I would always remain silent --- NEVER agree --- forget trying to change their minds, and leave early. They will know why you're leaving early, so it's at least a small statement.

If it gets too bad, forget your family and come join us for the holidays.

Mikita

Mrs. JL2, grandmother, has banned politics from the dining room. However, a couple of Bushites seem to be reconsidering. I'm gonna find out, probably by questioning their kids!

At Easter, leaving a DU bumper sticker in plain view got things going LOL.
:dem:

My brother and his evil cloven-hoofed wife have cut me off forever. It's mutual.

In case you think I'm exaggerating, they bought a pair of goats at a county Republican raffle.

The goat names? George and Laura.

That was in 2002.

If you're still reading, I swear this story is true.

George strangled Laura.

George lived on to dig up the grave of my mother's beloved cat.

Tomorrow, Mrs. D, my kids and I will dine with my mother, who hates GWB with the same passion that I do.

I wish my brother and his family well, but this Nazi-like fawning over Bush has divided our extended family as far as I can see into the future.

...I thought I had it bad. Sorry for your loss.

-Paige

And they attended Oral Roberts U ?

Great story!!

The distance between here in Ann Arbor, and there in Mid-Florida....

and mostly leave me alone. We usually spend T'giving with my extended inlaws, central Georgia/lower Alabama good ol' boys every last one, and the fact that I'm a liberal who doesn't hunt, yet has been married into the family for 14 years, I think fills them with a kind of awe. :D

When I met the Mississippi in-laws (as a liberal who doesn't hunt), several asked or assumed I was in school to be a minister. Then there was the comment about "our girls running off with Yankees..."

Thanksgiving, always good for stories.

because I'm from Oklahoma, which I think they think is part of California.

My first Thanksgiving with them, Uncle Wayne looked at me during the Auburn game halftime and said, "Eh, Zhon, you gedda deah this yeah?"

"Huh?" I asked.

"You gedda deah this yeah?"

"Pardon?"

This went on for a minute until my not-yet-then wife explained that Wayne wanted to know if I'd gotten a dear that year. "No," I said, "I don't really hunt much."

Wayne does nothing *but* hunt - you'd have thought I'd dropped trou and taken a shit on his living room floor. He hasn't had much of depth to say to me since then. :D

to be a minister?

partly because I was marrying the preacher's daughter. Over the years, I learned that hunting really was a strong tradition over Thanksgiving.

next year I will be condemned to a group of cabins in the woods with them for three days. I intend to spend the time gloating over the Democratic presidential win. :-)

That's one thing I credit Bush for - he has united both my nuclear and extended family politically. Even the most right-wing members of my family vote Democratic now.

I'm grateful there will only be Dems and Indies at my table this year!!!

between moderate-to-far left and moderate right. My uncle - leader of the moderate right group - last year said that in addition to all of the other terrible things Bush had done, he had destroyed our family Thanksgiving ( and Christmas and 4th of July) arguments because we all finally agreed. My dad (who died this year) told him not to worry. Someday we could all argue in peace again.

gets chewed up and spit out like a gristly wing, so that doesn't happen much.

In my presence, around the holidays, we only talk Democratic politics, and we only so do in a friendly way--no insults to any candidates, at all--now that may be a bit autocratic, but hey, too bad. It's much easier on the digestion of the vast majority of those gathered around the groaning sideboard.

To paraphrase Ronald Fucking Reagan, "I paid for that turkey!!!!"

:rofl:

Seriously, if you have an asshole trying to ping you, say "This is a day of giving THANKS, not talking politics." If they persist, tell them you will bet them a DOLLAR that a Democrat will win the WH--but only if they agree to STFU and talk football for the rest of the day.

for us now for the 7th year. The whole family is Democrat.

Quick story: Everyone is a Democrat in our family, but also Catholic. In '04 one cousin voted for Bush because the priest at his church told him it is a sin to vote for a Democrat. He told only his wife and she told everyone he voted for Bush, she was so mad (she voted for Kerry). It was funny how at Thanksgiving in '04 everyone was talking in hushed tones about this horrible thing the cousin had done by voting for Bush, like he had been caught sodomizing twin 6 week old babies or something.

Yes, we're Democrats.

Chuckling on this end.

_p

Or the jackhammer, which ever is handier.

the same town (6 siblings), Sunday afternoon I asked my MiL what she was doing (she's a widow, living alone) for Thanksgiving, because I found out I didn't have to work ( department/grocery store everyone works at least 4 hours) by some fluked they let me off, asked if she wanted to come over for dinner, her reply made my chin drop, I was the first to ask her!!!! 6 kids and none of them asked her to Thanksgiving dinner!!!! For the record she is a dem, my SO (her son) is a dem her other progeny are either repukes or jesus freaks,(I'm using that particular expression because that's exactly what they are, they have no time for their mother unless she's helping them do something with or for the church), so needless to say we'll have a nice quiet Thanksgiving because they won't be around.

I bring this whole issue up because not less than four days ago I had a debate (so to speak) with a “new” relative through marriage. This relative will be at the Thanksgiving dinner tomorrow.

I attended a wedding in Phoenix over this past weekend. The night before the wedding there was an informal rehearsal dinner at the house of the bride. Everyone was in good spirits as the rum and cokes made their way into our adult beverages.

I was out on the patio discussing mundane things that one discusses at such events. Everyone on one side of the family is trying to impress their counterparts on the other side of the family.

While on my third rum and coke (after two beers) and as the desert sun was setting, my son-in-law came out to the patio and told me of a conversation that was taking place in the kitchen. Of course, my entire family knows of my reputation for “Bush bashing” and how strong I feel about our country. He encouraged me to go inside and become a part of the debate. That’s all I needed to hear.

I proceeded inside and could faintly hear one of the “other” relatives singing the praises of our fearless leader, George W. Bush. He was saying things like “Bush is the greatest president in recent history and will go down as one of the great leaders of our time."

That pretty much did it for me.

I slowly walked up to the small group of men (from the other side) and interjected that I felt Bush would go down as the worst president in our lifetime and probably in our history. You would have thought I had said “AMERICA SUCKS!”

Their jaws dropped, not believing that they had heard such blasphemy.

One of the relatives (I believe it was the father of the groom) said something to the effect “Don’t you want a strong America?” “A strong America, I replied, is when our Constitution and Bill of Rights are upheld.” I continued, “Every time one of our rights are taken away or the Constitution is ignored, the Taliban have won.”

Then pipped in who I believe was the brother of the groom, “Rights?” “What rights have been taken from you?” “Well, I said, how about illegal wire tapping?” “Doesn’t it bother you that the current administration thinks it’s okay to listen in on your phone conversations,” I said.

He implied that this kind of activity was probably also a part of the Clinton Administration. He asked: “How do you know that the Clinton Administration wasn’t doing the same thing?”

At this point, I could tell that the conversation was getting a little overheated. Wanting to be the nice guy, I replied, “I don’t know if they did or didn’t, but...” I was going to finish my point with “I don’t know, but I DO know that it is happening now." I wasn’t allowed to finish my sentence. He interrupted me saying, “Well, young man, you need to do your homework before you speak on things that you have no knowledge about.”

Uh...okay. I felt like I was spanked. I merely said to him in a sarcastic tone, “Okay, you’re right, I’m wrong.”

I walked back out to the patio like a dog with his tail between his legs. The faces that greeted me out there could tell that I had my butt handed to me.

I told those on the patio what happened and my son-in-law laughed and said something to the effect that I shouldn’t let him get away with such a put down. I let it go, I explained, because I didn’t want to cause a problem.

My son-in-law stated that he had never seen me walk away from a fight and that I should get my ass in there and tell him what-for!

Minutes passed along with a couple of more rum and Dr. Peppers (we ran out of coke...it’s actually pretty good). The more I drank, the angrier I got over what had previously happened. “Come here, so I might smite thee upon the head” kept running through my brain.

From the distance, I could hear some loud laughter. I don’t know who it was, but I assumed it was that “other” relative laughing at ME! It probably wasn’t. But that was all it took. I had to go back in.

Amazingly, you would have thought that I would prepare some profound statement before walking up to him...but I didn’t. As it turns out, I didn’t need to.

As I re-approached the RW “other” relatives with particular focus on the SOB that told me to do my homework, I noted eyes rolling and the attention of the rest of the room slowly following me into the gauntlet.

I walked up to my tormentor and said:

“ I don’t want to cause a problem, so I apologize if I offended you.” That was just so he would lower his defenses.

After this opening statement, others in the room were leaning towards us to catch whatever they could of the conversation. They didn’t have to lean far, because I made sure that I was heard by everyone.

I began...

“Let me tell you something.” “Contrary to popular belief, the Constitution and Bill of Rights were NOT written for the majority.” “They were written for that lone voice of dissent...that voice that dares disagrees with our government.” “And you sir, should be defending that right as it is the essence of what makes America great.” “If you engage yourself at the table of discussion with those who may disagree, you must do so in good faith...respecting dissenting views.” “If you choose to reduce the discussion to insults, you have left no doubt to everyone that you have run out of intelligent ideas.” “As a result, you become vulnerable to right-wing propaganda, which is obviously what has happened.” “I assume that you are intelligent and would not want to be twisted so easily in a direction you would later regret.”

I then offered him a refill on his Kool-Aid and walked away.

I got about ten feet away, turned back around and said, “Don’t tell me to do my homework.” “I do my homework EVERY DAY and would delight in being tested at a time of your choosing.”

I felt better.

When I returned to the patio, I received a standing ovation.

-Paige

:toast:

But I won't print out volumes of info to beat them up with either :)
It's a delicate balance.

I am dreading it. My entire life I have been the only Dem in my family. When I was four years old, I was trying to convince my parents to vote for Johnson instead of Goldwater - seriously. My parents are gone, but my sister and her spouse and kids are all RW evangelicals and my brother and his spouse and their kids are RW Money is God people.

Here is a true story about how they indoctrinate their kids. In the fall of '04 I was babysitting my brother's kids. His son Tyler was nine at the time. A campaign ad came on TV and he asked me who I was going to vote for. I told him Kerry. He asked why. I told him Bush was a very bad man. He asked why I said that. I told them there were lots of reasons, but as an example, he lied to get people to go to war and thousands of people had been killed. Tyler said, "Oh, that's no big lie." I felt like crying.

I haven't had Thanksgiving with them since the stolen election of 2000. It just makes me sick to see them gloat. Fortunately, since they never treat me with much respect they always invite me at the last minute. So, for the last six years I've been able to truthfully say, "I'm sorry. I've made other plans." Well, don't believe that stuff about Freepers being stupid. It only took them six years to catch on and this year they invited me two weeks in advance. I'm so disinclined to lie that I had to agree to go.

Keeping quiet and changing the subject sound like good ideas, but unfortunately I am completely incapable of keeping my mouth shut that long. I take it for awhile, biting my tongue, and then I jump in and cut them to shreds. You see, they watch Faux News and are correspondingly ignorant. I start in with well sourced information and they are lost. Of course, that only makes them mad.

This year I think I will just be really smug and point out that now approximately 70% of the country has come around to my view. I'll tell them there is no need for me to try to enlighten them, because enough others have been enlightened that our majority is secure. Then I'll grin like a Cheshire cat.

Either that, or I'll wear a pirate outfit.

I feel your pain and dread.

Like you, I am incapable of keeping my mouth shut. Too much passion, so few willing to listen.

-Paige

:woohoo:

Conflicting work schedules leave only 3 adults at the table. An independent, an anarchist, and an independent-leaning D. If I wanted to talk up the Democratic Party, I'd get some opposition, but there's no real conflict on issues. In our house, issues reign supreme and parties are relevant only in how they address issues.

Thank gods.

on the annual reminder of what a great gift I received by having the "intolerance" genes so dominant in my family skip me and my kids. Then I do something utterly strange to most of them - on the giant shopping day of Friday, I buy a book and make sure I read, in plain view, for awhile. Although it humors some of them, I smugly know who really gets the joke.

We don't discuss politics really.

Thanksgiving is about family and togetherness for us. We will all celebrate the good year we all have had. The little kiddos will run around and be fun. There will be an Xbox hooked up with Guitar Hero.

Politics doesn't dominate every aspect of my life or that of my family's.

For example, you can grin maniacally at them and say "I'm SO GLAD Hillary will have dictatorial powers!"

We didn't invite them to the house

I have exactly one--a cousin.

He is in Memphis, Tennessee, and I am (at the moment) in Düsseldorf, Germany.
Let him yell his fool head off. I doubt his ranting will carry this far :-)

How did it go?

I read your post about what made you raise this question in the first place, and I'm hoping that you were NOT quiet today!

Mikita