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Since when has having been first lady considered experience?

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jackbourassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:49 PM
Original message
Since when has having been first lady considered experience?
Hillary is a joke when it comes to foreign policy experience. Her shameless, stupid and amateur attack on Obama yesterday was plain juvenile and only demonstrates the insecurity she must feel regarding her own lack of foreign policy experience.

Because if Hillary can use her eight-years as first lady as experience in foreign policy, may I suggest:

Laura Bush for Secretary of State. After all, she's almost as experienced as Hillary.

Barbara Bush for UN Ambassador. She gets the small prize. Only four years of experience.

Nancy Reagan for Vice President.

Rosalyn Carter for Ambassador to Great Britain.

Is Betty Ford still alive?
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. HRC is no Jackie Kennedy ... the Clintons are a political team
And those of us who were paying attention during the Harry & Louise debacle noticed that HRC repeated her Arkansas makeover. If we had been ready for her then, I think the nation would have been better off. Instead, we waited while she gained her own electoral history.
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
34. A Political Team??
Sort of like a King & a Queen are a political team?

Just Say No To Dynastic Politics
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. So you're as simplistic as Nancy Reagan? I expected better from our side
I've negotiated in a man's world and appreciated having a partner through the worst of it. I don't know where your reactionary antagonism toward royalty fits in, but the Clintons earned their stature ... don't see any doting parents around greasing their way toward power, do you?

Just say no ... what side are you on anyway? I thought ours reasoned out issues and decided on principles, tempered by realism and compassion.
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rjones2818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Experience as First Lady
is something new to look at in American politics. As far as I can tell, this is the first time a first lady has run for the White House. And remember, Eleanor Roosevelt probably would have made a hell of a President.

Mind you, Hillary's at the bottom of my list, but I think it's fair to point this out.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. How does Eleanor Roosevelt strike you as having experience?
She was a delegate to the UN General Assembly in its early days among other important positions.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. She probably had all the abilities and stature to run for president,
but as a woman that was unthinkable in those times. Hmmm, maybe we have made some progress. Maybe.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Elanor was FDR's ground runner...
she did a heck of a lot more than go to the UN. During the Depression, she was all over the country passing on information she gathered from those affected, during WWII, she was invaluable in getting FDR concise and up to date information, something he was sorely lacking from Generals and Admirals. She toured all over Europe and the Pacific doing incredible feats that most men would find daunting. She never tired, she was a driving force, and she would have made one hell of a president...:)
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I agree. She was so wealthy but had a real empathy for the poor too.
I find her a fascinating woman. She was a real humanitarian in every way.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Yes, and remarkably intelligent, poised and knew how to get
things done. Then again, she came from the same stock as Teddy Roosevelt, whom shew emulated.

TR saw the problems of being poor and downtrodden first hand> He went out into the streets of NYC to see what was going on and was appalled. The R machine of the time despised him, setting him up for various "jobs" in which he embarrassed them time after time, but he was SO popular, they could not "dump him. Lo and Behold, the upstate NY'ers in the machine thought they could get him out of their hair by setting him up for the VP slot...little did they know he'd be elevated to the presidency shortly thereafter. Without overt malice, TR went after the machine and corruption like none prior to him. His breakup of the Rockefeller monopolies was a spectacular feat, and endeared him to the nation as a populist. Eleanor looked at what TR had done, and took it to heart, learning many valuable lessons and using her incredible savvy...did much to save the nation during the Depression and well after.

My Aunt Edith and Uncle "Gusty" were die hard R's, but both of them, although they could not stand FDR, adored Eleanor. When she passed away, the nation and the world lost a great leader and humanitarian. Her legacy is one filled with incredible feats, and a lasting social change.

The R's tried to destroy her in any way they could, but they never came close...:D
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Oh, thank you for that; I didn't know that level of detail about Teddy R.
Fascinating!!!

What a great family they were. I saw a three or four hour PBS show on Eleanor a few years ago and it showed all these wonderful things she did for the world. She was tireless.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. If you go to the Library, (and if it has DVDs), there is a
fascinating program done by the History Channel on TR. He was an incredible human being, becoming politically aware at a young age leaning out of his 5th Avenue NYC window and seeing the Lincoln Funeral Cortege, he made politics and Public Service his life's work because of that seminal event.

When McKinley was shot, a Western Union runner had to climb a mountain to tell him he was about to be President of the US. As VP, his main view of the position was one where, "you go to funerals, and wait until the president has no pulse". The NY machine made him Police Commissioner in NYC, where TR promptly went out in the night, finding officers in bars and asleep on the job and firing them on the spot. 90% of the Police Force thought this was fantastic, but those who felt his wrath were profoundly unhappy.

Another interesting thing about TR was his fondness for children. When he was young, he was often very ill, (this is why he was in the 5th Ave apt when Lincolns Cortege went through, he was being treated for a heart murmur), so being around kids and playing with them made up for what he felt he had missed as a child himself. Often, there were kids in the Oval Office when he had dignitaries in for conferences and TR was playing "horsey". The Big-Wigs thought this atrocious, but TR essentially told them to get stuffed.

He also was the first president to "officially" have a Black visitor invited to the WH. This outraged many, but TR didn't back off the invite, (although he never did it again unfortunately). The 10th Cavalry saved TR's butt on Kettle and San Juan Hills. It was an all Black unit, and TR knew that if they hadn't have helped take the two hills, he and his men would have been devastated. There was on Sgt from the 10th, (can't recall his name), who was awarded his second Medal of Honor during the battles of that day, and TR had great respect for Blacks. There was no way he could get past the bigotry of the day however.

Anyway...check out the History Channel's Bio on hm, or any of numerous biographies...he was an amazing person.

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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-23-07 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
49. You beat me to it.
She was a century ahead of her time.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Are you really that uninformed, or are you just trying to piss people off?
Just wondering.... :)
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jackbourassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. It's fair isn't it...
Hillary is the one who brought up foreign policy experience, not me.

So answer the question.

If her "experience" as first lady is what she is touting around the country, then aren't those other first ladies just as experienced, and thus qualified for those various important foreign policy positions?
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Go read her resume and then we'll talk. Her experiences are clearly different.
Edited on Wed Nov-21-07 10:09 PM by wlucinda
Here is a little from Wiki...I'm on dialup here, and it's raining...you can find the rest on your own if you are really interested...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries...
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oh, you laugh... but Nancy Reagan has SERIOUS experience! I mean SERIOUS experience!
Paying Lip Service
An oral history
by James Ledbetter
February 4 - 10, 1998

<snip>

According to Kitty Kelley's biography, Nancy Reagan "was renowned in Hollywood for performing oral sex." Just-say-yes Nancy--in the days when she was Nancy Davis--was known to give the best blowjob in town, "not only in the evening but in offices. {T}hat was one of the reasons that she was very popular on the MGM lot." It must have made her very popular with Ronnie as well.

More:
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/9806,ledbetter,124,1.html

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jackbourassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Hell Ian...
If Hillary Clinton had the experience of Nancy Reagan her husband would never have gotten impeached.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. For all we know, maybe Bill gave Hillary Temporomandibular Joint Disorder. n/t
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. the difference between E. Roosevelt and hRC is that ER had to be
the eyes and ears for FDR. He could not go to the people and do the visits. ER was his person on the ground and with the people.
HRC was first lady in the regular sense since Bill was perfectly able to get around.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. So, she was just like Laura Bush? No more? No less? nt
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
37. that's just straight out not true
and furthermore you know it. Clinton was not first lady in the "regular sense". If Obama's experience as a child in Indonesia counts- and I think it does- why the hell doesn't Clinton's experience as advisor to the President count? She got hell for being an activist first lady and close advisor to Bill.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. You scared me!
"Laura Bush for Secretary of State. After all, she's almost as experienced as Hillary.

Barbara Bush for UN Ambassador. She gets the small prize. Only four years of experience.

Nancy Reagan for Vice President."
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm sorry - you mean Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)? Yes, she's qualified.
Doesn't mean I'll vote for her but the OP is way off-base.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Her resume is similar to Bobby Kennedy's in many ways....nt
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. How many others have a law degree? Named one of top 100 lawyers in the country? nt
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. Voting For War Proved HRC's Experience!
Don't you think?

While most congressional Democrats showed naivete by voting against the war, HRC relied on her profound experience, noted intelligence, and all-around good judgment to do the right thing.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
17. Edith Wilson ran the country when Woodrow had a stroke.
So there.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I was just about to post the same thing....
Edith Gault Wilson ran the nation while Woodrow Wilson was convalescing after a stroke. She did it quietly and without any fanfare, however, the R's took her, and Congress to task over the whole situation. it was ugly, but the nation survived, there was no insurrection, and by almost all accounts, she did a darn good job...:D
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. Since when is having been a senator considered experience?
Edited on Wed Nov-21-07 10:55 PM by beaconess
after all, Dan Quayle was a dud, so why should anyone give any credence to Joe Biden's candidacy?

After all, if all first ladies are to be judged by Laura Bush's performance as first lady, shouldn't all senators' experience be judged based on Dan Quayle's performance as a senator?

Oh, that's right. White men are treated as individuals and judged by their individual accomplishments or lack thereof. Only women and minorities are lumped together and all measured according to each other.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. As whacky as it is,
Edited on Wed Nov-21-07 10:58 PM by JohnnyLib2
Hillary became the object of all kinds of fury when she headed the push
for major health care revisions. She was acting then--maybe 1994--basically as a presidential appointee. That endeavor was very public though many others weren't. It seems to me that many folks are angry at her for having "White House experience" AND for claiming experience.

:wtf:
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jackbourassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. People are upset...
...because she did a terrible job reforming health care and pushed back health care reform (and universal coverage) for 15 years or more.

Her plan was a disaster of epic proportions. If that's the experience she is selling then I think we may have some trouble.

Also:

You'll note that the "experience" I am referring to is foreign policy experience. The reason I bring up her LACK OF EXPERIENCE IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS is because yesterday she mocked Barrack Obama, the next US President, for not having any experience in this area.

Well, I brought up the fact that the only experience Hillary has is eight years as first lady. That's the reason I assigned all the other first ladies foreign policy positions. As a Senator, the only decision she has made in foreign policy was her brilliant, insightful and thought-out plan to support the war in Iraq. How did that decision turn out?

I couldn't care less if she was voted one of the best lawyers in the country. President Obama should consider her for Attorney-General then or maybe a Supreme Court Justice, if she's nice. But it doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any foreign policy experience.

If you disagree, then tell me:

WHAT FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE DOES SHE HAVE?
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. No...what she did was point out that he was silly to claim this as foreign relations experience:
Edited on Wed Nov-21-07 11:43 PM by wlucinda
"Probably the strongest experience I have in foreign relations is the fact that I spent four years living overseas when I was a child in Asia—Southeast Asia." - Barack Obama


Here is some of her experience:


IN THE SENATE:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israel/index.cfm
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfur/

AS FIRST LADY:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton
"...Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries..."
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #24
38. sure.
8 years as an advisor to Bill Clinton and 7 years as U.S. Senator. What do you think she was doing in the WH, baking cookies, passing out canapes, decorating the Christmas tree?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
25. Once again, you don't understand the meaning of "experience."
Edited on Wed Nov-21-07 11:24 PM by aquart
"You" meaning "Obama supporter."

I know you all hate having him called "green" and you don't understand why we keep saying it. That's part of what makes your man "green."

And, honestly, belittling a wife for coming out from behind her husband's shadow is an ugly thing. You might not want to say anything you'll have to eat because Michelle Obama is a smart lady and there's no reason she can't look to the future.

But back to "experience." Your man, your golden rock star candidate, has never had his nuts crushed. He just has no idea what it's like to be attacked from every side day in day out for YEARS. And still come out fighting.

I will be happy to follow Obama's career AFTER the nut crushing. I hope his huge potential will blossom into the very candidate I seek.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. Why shouldn't it be?
A smart woman, like Hillary, could have learned a great deal from it.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
27. well who do you think was in the oval office when bill was diddling the help..??
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Reno.Muse Donating Member (307 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
30. I had someone at work give me this lame idea for an excuse of experience
I had to laugh.
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
33. Just Look At How Well It Worked Out For
Isabel P. and Imelda M.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
35. Anyone else find this post sexist?
Of course being first lady is a huge piece of experience on many different levels... including foreign policy.
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jackbourassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Well then you agree with its conclusions...
That all those First Ladies are qualified to run those foreign policy portfolios.

There you go again, another Clinton supporter using the gender-card.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Fine. discount her years in the WH
but then to be even a tiny bit intellectually honest, you're going to discount Obama's years from 6 to 10 spent in Indonesia, right?
And are you going to also discount the fact that she has 7 years in the U.S. Senate? Oops, then you better discount Obama's 3 years.

Here's the truth: Both Obama's years as a child abroad and Clinton's years in the White House have some weight. It's up to individuals to decide which has more. And their respective time in the Senate is foreign policy experience.

Both are qualified to be President. Clinton has more experience than Obama, but your OP is ridiculous.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-23-07 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #36
47. Hmmm... not exactly a huge Hill fan... I am undecided
Edited on Fri Nov-23-07 07:43 AM by JCMach1
but I do think this is BS criticism... I also thought the foreign experience criticism that hill gave of obama was also BS...

That is all.


Having said that... if Hill, or Obama are the nominee I will support them 100%. You don't have to 'fall in love' with a candidate to know they are they are the best choice of a candidate over ANY of the Repugs.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
41. Here's some experience (not that it will make a difference)
In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.


She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
42. You are using conservative logic
Edited on Thu Nov-22-07 02:07 PM by Tom Rinaldo
And it is not that different than an argument that could have been made at the turn of the twentieth century about womens experinece in politics; none had even voted before let alone held an elected position, but that proved nothing. Many women were very skilled at politics before women were granted the right to vote, they just had to influence politics more from behind the scenes. And has been pointed out above there have been First Ladies with real power before who did not take public credit at the time; Woodrow Wilson's and Ronald Reagan's wives do come immediately to mind. But of course we also have the model of FDR's first lady as an example to point to, so why do you omit Eleanor and mention Betty Ford (who actually did serve as a private counsel to Gerry)?

You know it used to be said prior to Walter Mondale that VP's had no real power or roles of any significance in Presidential Administrations, but since Mondale we have had Bush under Reagan, Gore under Clinton, and Cheney under BushII. So after a century or more of VP's being essentially ceremonial something changed and that position became something other than political window dressing and a posible heir to the thrown. Things change.

Do you forget or are you too young to remember all the controversy about Hillary Clinton when Bill first ran for President? Let me point out that it was clear from the start that Hillary Clinton was going to have real influence in the White House and Republicans always acknowledged that and attempted to make an issue out of that to use against both of them.

Here is a snip from a 1996 artical (The First Lady: Homemaker or Policy-Maker?) about changing perspectives on women in politics and in the White House in specific. After first describing the traditional role of political wives it goes on to say:


"Hillary Clinton was never this kind of political wife. She had her own career as a respected lawyer, children's rights advocate, and education reformer. Campaigning for her husband in 1992, she promised a co-presidency, saying, "If you vote for Bill, you get me too."

Hillary Clinton spearheaded White House efforts on health care, breaking the tradition of First Ladies staying out of policy making.

But many Americans say she has no business making official policy. "Americans don't want a First Lady who gives the impression that she's running things and making policies," says Paul F. Boller Jr., author of Presidential Wives. "No one elects a First Lady, so pushing the idea of a co-presidency is seen as a betrayal."

Although Clinton has since tried to lower her profile, the attacks against her continue. Republicans in Congress zeroed in on scandals like Whitewater, in which she was accused of involvement in an illegal Arkansas land deal. They also accused her of firing the staff of the White House travel office and replacing them with friends from Arkansas. Clinton denies any wrongdoing in Whitewater and says she never ordered anyone fired.

Clinton was not the first President's wife to come under attack. Eleanor Roosevelt, wife of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, spoke out for workers and took up the cause of civil rights long before it was popular. Tall and toothy, she was not conventionally attractive. She was attacked for her looks as well as for her controversial political stands."
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-9387547_ITM

So how many Democratic political attacks do you remember against Barbara Bush, Betty Ford, Nancy Reagan and Laura Bush when they were in the White House, or Republican political attacks on Rosyln Carter while she was First Lady. By far the closest analogy to Hillary Clinton as First Lady is Eleanor Roosevelt, not the women you cited.

There are also these firsts concerning Hillary Clinton as First Lady contained in a Wikipedia entry on her:

"When Bill Clinton took office as president in January 1993, Hillary Rodham Clinton became the First Lady of the United States, and announced that she would be using that form of her name.<102> She was the initial first lady to hold a post-graduate degree<103> and to have her own professional career up to the time of entering the White House.<104> She was also the initial first lady to take up an office in the West Wing of the White House,<43> first ladies usually staying in the East Wing. She is regarded as the most openly empowered presidential wife in American history, save for Eleanor Roosevelt.<105>"


And...

"As First Lady of the United States, she took a prominent position in policy matters. Her major initiative, the Clinton health care plan, failed to gain approval by the U.S. Congress in 1994, but in 1997 she helped establish the State Children's Health Insurance Program and the Adoption and Safe Families Act. She became the only First Lady to be subpoenaed, testifying before a federal grand jury as a consequence of the Whitewater scandal in 1996. She was never charged with any wrongdoing in this or several other investigations during her husband's administration."

Regarding her time in Arkansas there is much more like this to sort through:

"Rodham co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977.<30><64> In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom Rodham had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana)<65> appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation,<66> and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981.<67> For much of that time<68> she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so.<69> During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million,<62> and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.<62>

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Rodham became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years (1979–1981, 1983–1992). Clinton appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year,<70> where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.<71>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton#_note-73


Diagree with her on her politics, fine, but equating Hillary Clinton with Laura Bush is ridiculous.







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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. You're wrong on two counts
The OP was neither logical nor conservative.
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dugggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
43. Sleeping with the president has to be a great experience?
No?
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
44. Thanks for all the responses listing Hillary's incredible experience.
Edited on Thu Nov-22-07 02:18 PM by Perry Logan
If you put it all together, it looks something like this:

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House years:

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

"...Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries..."

More:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israel/index.cfm
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfur


The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Bookmarked. Thanks.
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-23-07 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. Thanks for putting it together....again.
Maybe, one day, this information will be read and the "No experience" & "What has she done?" posts will, at least, taper off.
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