Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Why Mr. Obama's message doesn't reach me.....

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:11 AM
Original message
Why Mr. Obama's message doesn't reach me.....
...First off, congratulations to Mr. Obama and his campaign staff, they truly energized the process and deserve all the credit that has been bestowed upon them.

Now to my point, Mr. Obama's message does not reach me for one reason, actually a word: charming. For too long we have treated the election of the most powerful person in the world like we select the winner of American Idol. We base our decision on how we "feel" about a candidate, how good he or she looks, how quick they are with their homespun wit, and mostly how charming they are as registered by the twinkle in their eyes.

Charming got us the current Fiasco occupying the White House.

Here's a list of of non-charmers: FDR, Truman, Eisenhower (the last real Republican president who in spite of his flaws warned us about the military industrial complex), and surprisingly Kennedy (yes, he was handsome but yes he was a tough SOB, think the Fiasco could have stared down the Russians during the Cuba missile crisis?). Compare these men to the charmers who have recently held office, Reagan, Bush I (more wimp than charmer), Clinton and the current Fiasco. Given the state of the country and the world we can ill afford a charming man of hope and here are the reasons.

The looming crisis facing us internationally is not the Middle East, it's China. The Chinese are not susceptible to charm and charisma and the growth of their economy, military and influence throughout the world cannot be blunted with a sound bite or a twinkle in the eye. It requires a tough bastard or bitch to confront them (and their population that's 5 times larger than ours) like Kennedy confronted Khruschev and the Soviet Union. Mr. Obama, in spite of everything popular in his message, would get eaten alive by the Chinese (full disclosure: I have seen the Chinese in action in my business and it is not pretty). The second reason I am not swayed by Mr. Obama's charms is that I want a President who is as versed in the major domestic issues that affect the country and me as I am. One of the issues confronting us right now is the overall state of transportation in this country. Whether it's air, rail or surface if things don't move the economy stops. Mr. Obama's message of hope does not address the current crisises in aviation (ATC, pilot shortages, maintenance, congestion); rail (freight, high speed rail); or surface (crumbling infrastructure). Yes, yes he has "people" to brief him on that, but when the Fiasco mentioned switchgrass a couple of years ago as an alternative fuel he was just mouthing the words (afterall do you think he understood that if you plant switchgrass you subtract land from food producing?).

Therefore, until Mr. Obama becomes more than a charming man of hope I will not be awed by his message.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. Did you listen to his speech?
Honestly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. These are the same people that are asking us to "sell" Obama to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justyce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Actions > speeches. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. No, I read it....(you should too)
....it was very charming. Here's the transcript:

SENATOR BARACK OBAMA: Thank you, Iowa.

You know, they said this day would never come.

(APPLAUSE) They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come together around a common purpose.

But on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do.

(APPLAUSE)

You have done what the state of New Hampshire can do in five days. You have done what America can do in this new year, 2008.

(APPLAUSE)

In lines that stretched around schools and churches, in small towns and in big cities, you came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents, to stand up and say that we are one nation. We are one people. And our time for change has come.

(APPLAUSE)

You said the time has come to move beyond the bitterness and pettiness and anger that's consumed Washington.

(APPLAUSE)

To end the political strategy that's been all about division, and instead make it about addition. To build a coalition for change that stretches through red states and blue states.

(APPLAUSE)

Because that's how we'll win in November, and that's how we'll finally meet the challenges that we face as a nation.

(APPLAUSE)

We are choosing hope over fear.

(APPLAUSE)

We're choosing unity over division, and sending a powerful message that change is coming to America.

(APPLAUSE)

AUDIENCE: We want change! We want change! We want change! We want change!

You said the time has come to tell the lobbyists who think their money and their influence speak louder than our voices that they don't own this government -- we do. And we are here to take it back.

(APPLAUSE)

The time has come for a president who will be honest about the choices and the challenges we face, who will listen to you and learn from you, even when we disagree, who won't just tell you what you want to hear, but what you need to know.

And in New Hampshire, if you give me the same chance that Iowa did tonight, I will be that president for America.

(APPLAUSE)

I'll be a president who finally makes health care affordable and available to every single American, the same way I expanded health care in Illinois, by...


(APPLAUSE)

... by bringing Democrats and Republicans together to get the job done. I'll be a president who ends the tax breaks for companies that ship our jobs overseas and put a middle-class tax cut into the pockets of working Americans who deserve it.

(APPLAUSE)

I'll be a president who harnesses the ingenuity of farmers and scientists and entrepreneurs to free this nation from the tyranny of oil once and for all.

(APPLAUSE)

And I'll be a president who ends this war in Iraq and finally brings our troops home...

(APPLAUSE)

... who restores our moral standing, who understands that 9/11 is not a way to scare up votes but a challenge that should unite America and the world against the common threats of the 21st century.

(APPLAUSE)

Common threats of terrorism and nuclear weapons, climate change and poverty, genocide and disease.

Tonight, we are one step closer to that vision of America because of what you did here in Iowa.

And so I'd especially like to thank the organizers and the precinct captains, the volunteers and the staff who made this all possible.

(APPLAUSE)

And while I'm at it on thank yous, I think it makes sense for me to thank the love of my life, the rock of the Obama family, the closer on the campaign trail.

Give it up for Michelle Obama.

(APPLAUSE)

I know you didn't do this for me. You did this -- you did this because you believed so deeply in the most American of ideas -- that in the face of impossible odds, people who love this country can change it.

(APPLAUSE)

I know this. I know this because while I may be standing here tonight, I'll never forget that my journey began on the streets of Chicago doing what so many of you have done for this campaign and all the campaigns here in Iowa, organizing and working and fighting to make people's lives just a little bit better.

(APPLAUSE)

I know how hard it is. It comes with little sleep, little pay and a lot of sacrifice. There are days of disappointment. But sometimes, just sometimes, there are nights like this; a night that, years from now, when we've made the changes we believe in, when more families can afford to see a doctor, when our children -- when Malia and Sasha and your children inherit a planet that's a little cleaner and safer, when the world sees America differently, and America sees itself as a nation less divided and more united, you'll be able to look back with pride and say that this was the moment when it all began.

(APPLAUSE)

This was the moment when the improbable beat what Washington always said was inevitable.

This was the moment when we tore down barriers that have divided us for too long; when we rallied people of all parties and ages to a common cause; when we finally gave Americans who have never participated in politics a reason to stand up and to do so.

This was the moment when we finally beat back the policies of fear and doubts and cynicism, the politics where we tear each other down instead of lifting this country up. This was the moment.

(APPLAUSE)

Years from now, you'll look back and you'll say that this was the moment, this was the place where America remembered what it means to hope. For many months, we've been teased, even derided for talking about hope. But we always knew that hope is not blind optimism. It's not ignoring the enormity of the tasks ahead or the roadblocks that stand in our path.

It's not sitting on the sidelines or shirking from a fight. Hope is that thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us if we have the courage to reach for it and to work for it and to fight for it.

(APPLAUSE)

Hope is what I saw in the eyes of the young woman in Cedar Rapids who works the night shift after a full day of college and still can't afford health care for a sister who's ill. A young woman who still believes that this country will give her the chance to live out her dreams.

Hope is what I heard in the voice of the New Hampshire woman who told me that she hasn't been able to breathe since her nephew left for Iraq. Who still goes to bed each night praying for his safe return.

Hope is what led a band of colonists to rise up against an empire. What led the greatest of generations to free a continent and heal a nation. What led young women and young men to sit at lunch counters and brave fire hoses and march through Selma and Montgomery for freedom's cause.

(APPLAUSE)

Hope -- hope is what led me here today. With a father from Kenya, a mother from Kansas and a story that could only happen in the United States of America.

(APPLAUSE)

Hope is the bedrock of this nation. The belief that our destiny will not be written for us, but by us, by all those men and women who are not content to settle for the world as it is, who have the courage to remake the world as it should be.

That is what we started here in Iowa and that is the message we can now carry to New Hampshire and beyond.

(APPLAUSE)

The same message we had when we were up and when we were down; the one that can save this country, brick by brick, block by block, (inaudible) that together, ordinary people can do extraordinary things.

Because we are not a collection of red states and blue states. We are the United States of America. And in this moment, in this election, we are ready to believe again.

Thank you, Iowa.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
30. No substance. At all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
33. Shush! We must all clap for Tinkerbell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. lmao
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. I did
In his speech last night, I got lots of feel-good stuff. The only thing tangible I heard, though, was that somehow he'd bring down the cost of health care.

That's just not fucking good enough. I want health care as a human right. I want government help with day care. I want more help with college education. And I want to pay for it by getting out of Iraq.

Obama will do none of this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well I guess you'll be voting for Huck, right?
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 09:13 AM by YOY
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Cheap shot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Sadly it was...
I'm no huge Obama fan but I'm mighty glad enough him to not be disparaging.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. I know what you mean.
I want someone who can take on the world and fix the mess that Bush will leave. Obama talks pretty but has little else to offer.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. FDR was a charmer extraoridnaire
just read any press accounts of the man. He also was considered a mediocre, near light weight, intellectually. Ike would have been similar to be honest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
danalytical Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. This is true, FDR was tough as nails, but
This is true, FDR was tough as nails, but he was also considered a charmer and a lightweight early on in the campaign and presidency. Ike was always considered an intellectual ligt weight, even time hasn't changed that.

On the other hand, so far i am in total agreement with the OP. I would much rather see Dodd, Biden, Edwards, or Gore as president. But I will vote for Obama if he survives to the end. I am just so damn tired of this empty rhetoric campaign he is running. I swear to god I have never heard him make one clear indication of how he would fix any of our problems. It's always about how things are broken or how he will "bring about change" with "hope". It reminds me of that get rich guy who wrote "Rich Dad", one night I watched two hours of that idiot on PBS and then I realized this man has no solutions, he ONLY points out the questions and the problems in vague terms.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Branjor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. Re Obama being "eaten alive" by the Chinese....
Yes, I seem to remember early on in his career, before the 2004 election, he was cowed in a radio interview with Don Imus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. I agree with you
Unfortunately, I don't see anyone in the group who is any better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. There is one sentence that leaps out at me. "I want a persident
who is versed in doemestic issues that affect the country and me". That is one of John Edwards charms-he understands that this is paramount. I don't really get that same sense of hope from Obama that I did when he spoke at the 04 convention. I find Edwards intelligence, smile and understanding of the issues,domestic and foreign very charming.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
36. yes, edwards 'charm' works for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. Perhaps if Obama wore an eyepatch and bit the head off live chickens. Would that do it for you?
See if you can get by your odd attraction to him and listen to his message. If you still don't like him, so be it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I do not listen to a message, I read them....
...less noise, no distractions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Good deal. Thus, unlike the OP, you'll be less inclined to be tripped up by sexual angst.
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 09:34 AM by Buzz Clik
Oh wait. You wrote the OP.

So what's all this bullshit about charm?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Now that's funny....
...and it taint bullshit. You're just threatened by my ideas and opinions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. You're turned off by Obama's charm.
You tell me you've read his positions, and you've told me you haven't.

This is nonsense.

goodbye.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I said I read his speech....
...thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
danalytical Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. What message?
Hope and Change? Fixing Washington? How about some thoughts on regulating the insane banking and lending industry which is eating people alive? Maybe something on growing the middle class instead watching it decline in overall numbers year after year? Or is he going to "change" that with a smile and a twinkle of "hope"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Don't vote for him if you don't like his politics.
I just find the premise of the OP to be asinine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Please then....
...point out the position papers that relate to my post. I'll read them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. You told me in a post above that you already read his position papers.
I'm getting the message here. This is just more smear for the sake of smear.

Fuck this. I'm out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. No I read his speech.....
...try again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
danalytical Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. You like Obama?
Then help me out here. Don't just say go away. Give me some fuckin information. WHAT are his positions?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
16. Actually, FDR, Truman, and Eisenhower could all be very charming.
1. "He was loved because he radiated personal charm, joy in his work, optimism for the future. Even Charles de Gaulle, who well knew Roosevelt's disdain for him, succumbed to the "glittering personality," as he put it, of "that artist, that seducer." "Meeting him," said Winston Churchill, "was like uncorking a bottle of champagne."
http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/fdr2.html

2. Have you ever read some of Harry Truman's famous quotations?

"I have found the best way to give advice to your children is to find out what they want and then advise them to do it."
"I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
"I don’t give a damn about “The Missouri Waltz” but I can’t say it out loud because it’s the song of Missouri. It’s as bad as “The Star-Spangled Banner” so far as music is concerned."

3. Eisenhower loved to golf and if you ever read Stephen Ambrose's "To America," Eisenhower comes off as an extremely charming individual. He came off as a very affable, if serous figure.

And no the Chinese would not "eat" Barack Obama alive.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZC8C_JH2eQc
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PunkinPi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
18. For the record,
bush was never "charming" despite the MSM trying to spin that way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. They were quite successful weren't they?
.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PunkinPi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. By assisting in theft of two elections... yes...
as authentic "success" no.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
32. The "professor" is going to unify the freepers & DUers.
One big happy family,don't you know?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. Yet oddly enough
the more liberal a person was the more likely they were to vote for Obama.


Vote by ideology:

Conservative: Edwards 42%, Clinton 22%,Obama 21%

Moderate: Obama 33%, Clinton 32%, Edwards 22%

Somewhat liberal: Obama 36%, Edwards 25%, Clinton 25%

Very liberal: Obama 40%, Clinton 24%, Edwards 16%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
35. I am not awed by him/his message either. Thank you for the post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PsN2Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
37. I gotta agree
No one is going "charm' the corporate puppet masters of this country into doing what's right.
"Charm" will not convince the Repubs in the Senate to allow anything to get by them and they will undoubtedly still have well more than the 40 they need to continue obstructing any Dem proposals. Pelosi and Reid have found that charm doesn't work in the Legislative Branch.
We need someone willing to confront, not "charm", that will call out and label the opponents of change that benefits "we the people" as what they are.
I think Edwards with his background in confronting the big guy in court for the benefit of the lesser person is the one we need to actually effect change in Washington, the U.S.A., corporate America and the world.
Probably off topic, but there ain't nobody in this race getting their hair cut at the barber college.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
39. Why your Message doesn't reach me:

THE CHINESE ARE COMING THE CHINESE ARE COMING!!! QUICK!!! GET THE CHILDREN SAFE!!! THEY'RE NEARLY HERE!!!!


I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of my own fear mongering..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. You discount a real threat to our nation and our way of life?
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 10:07 AM by Aviation Pro
....Good God. Please read today's column from Krugman: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/opinion/04krugman.html?hp
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. I understand.. you want an asshole president, not a man who inspires trust in the US. Guess what?
You have that right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. No, I do not want.....
...an asshole President, I want one who confronts reality with a literal set of cajones. I someone who can expound in depth and detail the issues and have a set of solutions. Of course, that person is not running this year, you can guess which person I want.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
41. 2009 = stagflation, Middle East in even worse turmoil, dollar
sinking even faster, people choosing between food and gasoline, American jobs accelerate moving overseas, deeper in debt to China and Dubai, the subprime housing crisis spirals further downward. Not a pretty sight. The only thing "bringing us together" is an increasingly gloomy reality. What Democrat do I want in the White House? Given the choice on offer, I want Edwards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 16th 2024, 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC