The future: Is Clinton the Iron Lady aka Thatcher or the 'Cry Baby Clinton'

It is how they are perceived. Not just in this country but world wide.

Is Clinton going to be President with the 'Margaret (Iron Lady) Thatcher stance' which made her so successful on the world stage or will it be the meek and mild Mrs Clinton, the wife?

For the first time the USA will likely have a woman president and that is a great success. However, how will she behave as Commander in Chief in crisis? How will she deal with mischevious world leaders and many of them thugs? I think this is something the GOP may be looking at too?

to Garbo in "Ninotchka" - don't make an issue of her womanhood.

Seriously, though, the real question is can we possibly treat her as a human being first, rather than constantly judging, assessing, and labeling her with female tags?

Either the fact that she is a woman makes a difference, or it doesn't.

Her supporters can't one one hand claim to want her to be judged and treated just like a male, but at the same time constantly brand all criticisms of her as "sexist." (I don't mean the obvious sexist attacks.)

Nor can her supporters claim to be trying to move beyond gender, while simultaneously supporting her "because she is a woman."

I think you may be missing the point. The scrutinizing of women is not funny. Her enemies will be doing what they can to undermine her. Read the post

Reagan had more in common with Thatcher than Hillary does.

They're either a bitch or 'too emotional'. It's somewhat surprising to see so many people here fall into using those stereotypes.

- to use a less loaded word - a total jerk? Or even a semi-jerk?

It's my experience that PEOPLE who seek power over other PEOPLE tend to be controlling and manipulative to a greater or lesser extent. Of course their are exceptions to every rule, but do we really believe that women never abuse their power? That women never act in a way to justify the title "jerk?"

That's never the terminology used. Invariably women, unlike there male counterparts, are described as either a bitch (variants include ice-princess, cold, 'cunt', etc), or 'too emotional'. Listen to how people describe any woman in power and those two issues always seem to come up. Now, look at men in power. Trent Lott has cried a couple of times - no big deal made of it. Criticism of him seems to run a wide gamut - in other words there isn't a focus on whether he's a 'prick' or a cry-baby. One caveat is that men can't generally show too much emotion without getting labeled queer, but that's a whole other issue.

I'm not arguing the semantics of terminology. Neither am I arguing that - in general - men get more of a free pass when they are "jerks" than women do. Women get called bitches and cunts and cold (which I don't think is in the same category - but I digress). Sometimes independent of their actions and sometimes because of their actions.

What I'm saying is that people in power are generally in power because they are able to do certain things which might cause the rest of us discomfort, like firing people or slashing budgets, demeaning underlings - what have you. In some cases that crosses the line into "jerkiness" (maybe you could provide me with a better word here?)

I guess what I'm getting at is do you presume that "jerkiness" precieved in women, is neccessarily evidence of sexism (I mean every time), or do you think that this perception is sometimes correct even if the language used to describe it is offensive? Because sometimes I think (especially in regards to Hillary) people miss the forest of Hillary's flawed personality for the trees of sexism against her.

Let me give you a specific example. I had a viscerally negative reaction to Hillary's "crying" video. It wasn't the crying that bothered me. I just felt that her tone and body language gave her away as insincere and manipulative. Is my instinctually negative reaction to that video necessarily sexist? Or am I justified in trusting my intuition when it comes to judgements of a person's apparent manipulativness.

I'm not arguing the semantics of terminology. Neither am I arguing that - in general - men get more of a free pass when they are "jerks" than women do. Women get called bitches and cunts and cold (which I don't think is in the same category - but I digress). Sometimes independent of their actions and sometimes because of their actions.

What I'm saying is that people in power are generally in power because they are able to do certain things which might cause the rest of us discomfort, like firing people or slashing budgets, demeaning underlings - what have you. In some cases that crosses the line into "jerkiness" (maybe you could provide me with a better word here?)

I guess what I'm getting at is do you presume that "jerkiness" precieved in women, is neccessarily evidence of sexism (I mean every time), or do you think that this perception is sometimes correct even if the language used to describe it is offensive? Because sometimes I think (especially in regards to Hillary) people miss the forest of Hillary's flawed personality for the trees of sexism against her.

Let me give you a specific example. I had a viscerally negative reaction to Hillary's "crying" video. It wasn't the crying that bothered me. I just felt that her tone and body language gave her away as insincere and manipulative. Is my instinctually negative reaction to that video necessarily sexist? Or am I justified in trusting my intuition when it comes to judgements of a person's apparent manipulativness.

asking if Obama will act presidential
when faced with a crisis or will he act
'black'.

Sexism and racism need to be left out of
this race - they aren't running.

in each country we had the same thing

I hope that she is ready

that sexism towards Clinton is
so readily accepted but, racism in
reference to Obama is forbidden when
both are wrong.

sexism and racism shouldn't be factors at all but in the past unfortunately women were scrutinized, ridiculed and it is still there today. She has a hard road ahead.

:banghead:

I'm seriously disgusted with any fawning over an "Iron Lady" descriptor for HRC that old blood-and-guts Thatcher wore like a medal. :thumbsdown: