Clinton has never regretted casting her IWR vote

Clinton supporters who opposed the IWR, what's your take on this?

“If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or has said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from,” Mrs. Clinton told an audience in Dover, N.H., in a veiled reference to two rivals for the nomination, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina.>

I bring this up because there seems to be across the board unanimity against the vote on DU.

Not that she's crying over the death and destruction. Just over thinking she might not get to be president.

crucial for it's passage? No one knows whether she regrets voting for it, well actually she did say that if she knew that Bush would use it as an excuse to invade, she wouldn't have voted for it.

Her floor speech was NOT in favor of invasion, and unlike John Edwards, who in addition to cheerleading for the invasion, also co-sponsored it, she strongly cautioned AGAINST invasion.

and has LOTS OF BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS

she didn't vote for invasion, she's responsible for trusting Bush's judgment:

snip: "We and our NATO allies did not depose Mr. Milosevic, who was responsible for more than a quarter of a million people being killed in the 1990s. Instead, by stopping his aggression in Bosnia and Kosovo, and keeping on the tough sanctions, we created the conditions in which his own people threw him out and led to his being in the dock being tried for war crimes as we speak.

If we were to attack Iraq now, alone or with few allies, it would set a precedent that could come back to haunt us. In recent days, Russia has talked of an invasion of Georgia to attack Chechen rebels. India has mentioned the possibility of a pre-emptive strike on Pakistan. And what if China were to perceive a threat from Taiwan?

So Mr. President, for all its appeal, a unilateral attack, while it cannot be ruled out, on the present facts is not a good option.

snip: While there is no perfect approach to this thorny dilemma, and while people of good faith and high intelligence can reach diametrically opposed conclusions, I believe the best course is to go to the UN for a strong resolution that scraps the 1998 restrictions on inspections and calls for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded from Iraq. I know that the Administration wants more, including an explicit authorization to use force, but we may not be able to secure that now, perhaps even later. But if we get a clear requirement for unfettered inspections, I believe the authority to use force to enforce that mandate is inherent in the original 1991 UN resolution, as President Clinton recognized when he launched Operation Desert Fox in 1998.

snip: So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.

http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

This has been my main beef with Hillary but after reading her speech, I see that she made it clear she was not voting for Bush to wage a lawless war.

The thread is here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4020176

I've been arguing with a friend who thinks Hillary should have known (and probably did) what an untrustworthy person Bush is, however, Senators have to follow certain rules of decorum. I don't think they can just come out and say "He's a liar, I don't trust him." or can they?

well actually she did say that if she knew that Bush would use it as an excuse to invade, she wouldn't have voted for it.


Simply answer why she felt that she could trust Bush to do the right thing with this power. Did she look into his soul (that's a figure of speech, because we all know he doesn't have one)? Did she look at the long list of promises he has kept? :sarcasm:

the same way that Kerry regretted it, and Edwards, and every other Democrat who trusted the bastard. Did they all think they could look into his soul? If you condemn Clinton for trusting Bush, then you condemn every other Democrat who trusted him too.

John Edwards' speech and co-sponsorship, made Hillary Clinton look like a dove.

if she knew then what she knew now about Bush, almost the same thing that Kerry said. If that doesn't constitute regret, I don't know what to say. She didn't vote for the damned invasion, but trusting bush is a deal breaker for some, and I understand it, as long as it's a deal breaker for all who voted yes.

Apologies don't mean shit, especially when they're worn on your sleeve as something to hold against your rivals.

it is SHAMEFUL to support anyone who was stupid enough to fall for that IWR bullshit.

it is DISGUSTING than anyone who supported IWR is running for the presidency - and VERY DISCONCERTING that a lot of DUers are supporting them

That vote is coming back to her in campaign $$$$ via the defense companies.

If some people get hurt, too bad.

it better be

I don't know but I don't assume people who favor Obama don't care for Hillary; I don't care for either one. This campaign is distressing to me because I detest anyone who supported IWR but Obama just does not impress me. I'll vote my conscience: Kucinich.

.

I'll save you the caustic.

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This would be the makeup of the Senate at the time of the IWR. There are 51 Democrats (including Jeffords), 49 Republicans, and zero Barack Obamas. They are all laughing at you.

:rofl:

This would be Barack Obama, who is in the Illinois State Senate, laughing at you after having given a strongly anti-war speech.

You must have a very thin skin.

a penchant for facts means "thin skinned".

He wasn't in office when that vote was held....

she hasn't apologized for multiple votes - like nclb, the patriot act, china trade, bankruptcy bill and IWR. Some candidates have and for that reason I doubt their principles.

so he didn't have a chance to vote on it one way or the other.

He made strong statements against the passage at the time, but he's been fairly "safe" in his voting record since coming to the senate, so who knows if he would have voted against it. Maybe he would have felt the same pressure as many other senate Dems...Wes Clark had a similar stumble early on in '04, where he said he may have voted for it.

It's hard to say unless you've actually been there.

I could be wrong, but I am disturbed that Hillary refuses to take proper responsibility for her vote. It was not a good one. I also am not convinced she learned the correct lessons from it, considering her vote for Kyle-Liemberman.

If it was otherwise, she would have read the damn NIE first.

Yeah war!

At least John Edwards had the GRACE to admit when he made a mistake. :shrug:

:hi:

Surprisingly even when we disagree, you're still aces with me.

It's personality! ;) :hi:

and thanks for your concern.:hi:

BS!

She's said several times she regretted it, so your subject line is just false.

You are also using a quote from a while back when it was a big deal to people to call it a "mistake" rather than something regrettable, and some people made a huge fuss over her refusal to use the word mistake. It's crazy on both sides, but after she refused to use that word, she had to stick to tha decision. I understand that. Regret instead of mistake. SFW?

She is no where on record as saying she regrets voting for the IWR.

years ago in any way supports your claim that she has never said she regrets her vote

I think my point stand re your previous post

She didn't in 2004, and she didn't as recently as a few months ago. She is no where on record as having expressed regret over her vote for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002.

of Senators that voted on the IWR and whether they regretted that vote or not....

http://www.politico.com/pdf/070205_iraqvote.pdf

On edit. I'm sorry, this was a 2007 survey, not 2005.

She may not have regretted her vote, because she wasn't voting for invasion in the first place, something that her floor speech confirms. She has said that she'd never have voted yes, if she knew Bush would use the IRW to go to war. How is that different from what John Kerry said. Did you not vote for him in 04?

That was the official name of the Iraq war resolution. How could she NOT know Bush would go to war???

and every other Democrat voted knowing they were voting for war then. Condemn them all. Did you skip the 04 election?

I have principles and I don't whore them out.

I only voted for Senate and House, skipped the President.

if you felt that way and stuck to your beliefs, I applaud you. I hate the hyprocrisy of those who only choose to condemn one, and not the all the others.

Whoa! We *regret* when we scratch someone's car door with ours, it's a *big fking MISTAKE* when we kill hundreds of thousands of civilians without the true threat to our country.

I'm ashamed of those who voted for the IWR but I can forgive those who are humble enough to reflect the FACT that they made a MISTAKE.

OMG! WE, The People of the United States, have allowed "the political elites" to run roughshod ... as such we also must take responsibility for THE MURDERS and/or SENSELESS DEATHS many precious human beings (both American and Iraqi) on our hands - AND - we, The American People should vow, "NEVER AGAIN!" Oh, BTW we did vow the foregoing after the horrific Vietnam Conflict, but that lesson did not stick. :(

The DU needs more of this sort of thinking imo. We The People, I think, have some difficulty seeing ourselves as the rest of the world sees us. I am wondering what a million-plus Iraqi refugees think of America right this moment. Do they blame bush or do they blame those who keep bush in power??? I wonder what those who have taken on the burden of those refugees think about America as well.... Lest we forget President Ford opened our doors to over a hundred thousand Vietnamese refugees...(bush is fighting to keep those doors shut tight!)... I wonder what members of Iraq's demolished Middle Class think, when an Al-Quida operative comes along and asks them, "Wanna get even?" That mushroom cloud bogeyman the bfee used to "inspire" Americans with prior to the war may come back to haunt us yet!

I am DISGUSTED by the number of so-called progressives - including a lot of DUers - who are willing to over look Democrats support of IWR. IT WAS SICKENING, DETESTABLE AND INDEFENSIBLE. I don't give a CRAP if the people who voted for IWR now "regret" it or claim they were "misled" - they were either stupid or complicit and either way THEY F***ING STINK. I cannot believe people voted Democrats into the majority to do something about Iraq but are willing to VOTE for the VERY PEOPLE WHO HELPED START IT.

And that's the sad part. Lots of our "leaders" blow in the political winds and do what is popular at the time instead of doing what's right. It's just the way it is.

Present votes of Barak.

Whether we like it or not the Democratic Party has an internationalists
position on Foreign Policy this includes Miliary and a strong defense.
As long as we have the party we will have Militarists and Hawks in
our Party. Even Al Gore believed this.

Hopefully they have all learned their lesson from Iraq. They of course
will not be able to say this in public.

Personally, I do not believe Hilary will be tryign to venture
all around the world "spreading Democracy" I forgive her the vote and
say do not let it happen again.Hilary I believe wwill exhaust all
means of diplomacy and War will be a last resort.

Our party will always have the Military Component. Even Al Gore was
pro Afghansistan War and anti Iraq War.

I am an Edward's Supporter, but I also like HRC

duped by the Bush Bots and The Intelligence Community. I'm not buying that load of crap.

BTW, why do we have to remain in a state of "perpetual war" even as we occupy (and thoughtfully draw down troops from) two Countries?

I don't know about you, but I'm NOT at war with a f**king tactic, i.e., terrorism :wtf:.

We can choose NOT to swagger as a Super Power, but be a gentle giant - opting for far more use of diplomatic carrots and intense diplomatic interaction, rather than defaulting to "blowing shit up" as our first response? :shrug:

seem to want.

She has acknowledged that if she had known the facts that came out later, she would have voted differently.

There is also the issue that she -- and a number of other Democrats -- voted for the COMPROMISE IWR in October 2002 because they knew that if it was defeated, then Bush would simply get his preferred version -- allowing him to attack terrorists anywhere, not just in Iraq -- as soon as the new Rethug majority took over in January.

The Dems were between a rock and a hard place. Some chose to sign on to the compromise resolution, in order to prevent a worse one from being passed a few months later. For all we know, if Bush had had his way and gotten his preferred IWR, we would already be in Iran by now.

when those whom you've served with have died or been maimed thanks to the votes Democratic Hawks. No worries of HRCs little dear, Chelsea, patrolling Baghdad with the MP detachment in the near future.

It doesn't mean SQUAT to those who view it like a fucking PACMAN game but it has hit home for me and many other members within the retired and AD communities around this country. :grr:

I have no respect for HRC's blathering swagger and feigned sighs of excuses that "it's someone elses' fault." (Bush, Rumsfeld, The entire Intelligence Community)

I FEAR when I consider how petty and self-absorbed an "Iron Maiden" Clinton Presidency would reflect our country AB/DC (After Bush/During Clinton)

I AM TIRED OF DUers MAKING EXCUSES FOR THAT IWR VOTE

If the Dems hadn't agreed on the compromise version in October, he'd have had even more of a blank check in January. And we'd probably be in Iran now with even more dead.

I do feel strongly for you and everyone who has lost people in this war, and I was one of the protesters in the months before the war began. But I don't blame any Dem for our involvement there. If Gore had been in the White House, this never would have happened.

It seems to me that that is a relevant piece of information. Why did you leave it out of your post?

Right for her to do. She gave Bush the benefit of the doubt, like the majority of senators. If that info happened to be correct, she would of course have to support it.