Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Huckabee: Fair Tax "would be the best thing that ever happened to small business"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:19 PM
Original message
Huckabee: Fair Tax "would be the best thing that ever happened to small business"
Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who won the Republican nominating contest in Iowa but trails elsewhere, defended his economic record and fired back after a cutting attack in the Republican debate by former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson, a rival for socially conservative voters in South Carolina.

"Fred's finally waking up and realizing there's a race going on," Huckabee told CNN, a dig at Thompson's belated autumn entry into the Republican presidential race.

Huckabee, who also campaigned in Michigan, defended his proposal to abolish the Internal Revenue Service and replace U.S. income tax with a sales tax. He rejected critics who say it would create a black market and would hurt small business owners, the source of much U.S. job growth.

"Totally opposite. In fact, it would be the best thing that ever happened to small business," he told CNN, adding that his poorly funded campaign had caught fire because of small business owners rather than his appeal to social conservatives.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080111/pl_nm/usa_politics_dc_104

What's foul about the FairTax
Email|Print| Text size – + By Bruce Bartlett
January 5, 2008

FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR Mike Huckabee's rise to the top tier of Republican presidential candidates is one of the major stories of this election cycle. Although his strong support among evangelical Christians is a factor in his rise, Huckabee has also benefited from the backing of a small but intense group of people favoring abolition of the federal tax system and its replacement by a 23 percent national retail sales tax known as the FairTax.

The states would be required to collect this new tax, thus allowing for abolition of the Internal Revenue Service. To prevent poor and middle-class people from being overly burdened, Americans would be sent monthly checks as a partial rebate of the tax.

Unfortunately, like all things in life that are too good to be true, so is this one. Here are a few problems with the FairTax.

True rate. When people hear about a 23 percent national sales tax, they naturally equate it to the state sales taxes they are familiar with. If a state sales tax is 5 percent, then this means that if someone buys something for $1 they will pay $1.05 at the checkout. Thus they assume that the FairTax would cause a $1 product to cost $1.23 if it were to be enacted.

In fact, the rate is not 23 percent, but 30 percent. The 23 percent rate is arrived at by treating the tax as if it were already part of the price instead of being on top. Thus if a product were to sell for $1 and the FairTax added 30 percent, the 30-cent tax comes to 23 percent of $1.30. This is how a 30 percent rate is deceptively turned into a 23 percent rate.

Governments must also pay. The FairTax would apply to all government purchases at every level. Only education spending is exempted.

States would have to pay 30 percent more on every highway and bridge they build, local governments would have to pay 30 percent more for police and fire protection, and even the federal government would have to pay the tax to itself when it buys weapons and ammunition for troops.

Taxes would have to be increased at the state and local level to pay the FairTax to the federal government. The FairTax rate would also have to be higher to pay for the additional federal spending it will require. However, FairTax supporters exclude this higher spending from their calculations. The 23 percent rate is designed only to be revenue-neutral, not spending neutral. Thus the federal deficit would either rise by more than $200 billion per year or spending would have to be cut by this much.

Rebate problems. The FairTax rebate would also add $600 billion to federal spending annually. Although its supporters say it is just like the one we get when our tax withholding exceeds the taxes we pay on our tax returns, the FairTax rebate is more like Social Security because it comes in a monthly check.

Although FairTax supporters tout the generosity of the rebate, it is extremely modest because it is based on the poverty level income - a figure that bears no relationship to the actual cost of living. As a consequence of the way the poverty rate is calculated, childless couples would get a monthly rebate of $391 per month, but a single mother with two children would only get $329 per month.

Prices will rise. Finally, FairTax supporters assume away many of the problems with their plan by asserting that prices will fall by 22 percent once all income taxes are abolished. Prices at the checkout would be about the same with the FairTax as they are now, they say, but everyone would come out ahead because their net wage will now equal their gross wage.

If this were so, it's hard to see why the rebate is needed, since there seems to be only winners and no losers under the FairTax. In reality, for prices to fall by 22 percent, business costs would also have to fall by 22 percent, which means that all workers would have to take a 22 percent pay cut.

It's unlikely that workers would agree to this. It is far more likely that the FairTax will raise the price of everything by 30 percent. This has been the case in every country and every state with a sales tax. The idea that prices will fall is just a pipe dream.

The FairTax is unworkable. It is a fantasy to think otherwise.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/01/05/whats_foul_about_the_fairtax/

Bruce Bartlett was deputy assistant secretary of the Treasury for economic policy from 1988 to 1993.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's a flat tax and it would kill business. But do continue lying.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. He's reached the Pee Wee Herman "I know you are, but what am I" stage...
With all of the evidence against this scam (beginning in the 2004 election, when Bush said "I'm not exactly sure how big the national sales tax is going to have to be, but it's the kind of interesting idea that we ought to explore seriously" (until Kerry pointed out that it would result in "one of the largest tax increases on the middle class in American history" and Bush backed off, denying his earlier interest), right up to the January 2008 article I just posted from Bruce Bartlett, the lies surrounding this are tremendous. Huckabee's simply fallen into saying the opposite of what he knows to be true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Let me tell you about Huckabee and taxes
While he was governor, he made it so pest control companies, among other service businesses, have to charge sales tax. It is a nightmare, as the tax charged must be by location. I do the sales taxes, and that means at least a dozen different location taxes plus state tax must be reported and paid every month. We lost customers when we started charging the sales tax, and the only way to keep some was to lower our cost so that the amount they paid was the same. This flat tax will kill business in this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Same with rent...
...mine's currently $1650. If it went up to $2145 overnight, I couldn't handle it. For some reason, it seems like many people don;t understand that rent would be taxed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. My favorite evidence that Huckabilly is brain-dead: he wants to pay for
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 04:28 PM by wienerdoggie
health care initiatives for the poor with...wait for it...TAX CUTS. His tax plan and his health care plan (such as it is) don't even work together. He makes this shit up as he goes along. He's got Chuck Norris and Ed Rollins for celebrity and political strategy, but didn't bother to hire anyone good to help him with actual policy-making. Stupid assclown.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Buy a house for 200,000 and then pay flat tax sales tax of 100,000 - great idea
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. And it would be the worst thing ever for poor & middle class people n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Flat taxes are regressive by nature.
Meaning that the poor will be hit hardest, followed by the middle class.

And considering that multi-millionaire Neal Boortz is the mind behind this scheme as well as its most vocal supporter...well...that's all I need to know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yeah, right, it'll work...
just like every other plan (I mean scam) repugs have come up with. Republicants and fantasy, marriage made in Hell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. There's a certain sense to taxing consumption, not income, but...
...a flat tax isn't a good way to get there.

I have no idea how, in practice, the way I imagine a consumption-based tax being implemented would work out, but I'd tax different goods at different tax rates, with basic necessities like groceries being tax free, and tax rates going higher for luxury items.

People could also save receipts to get tax credits for some things, like people who drive fuel-efficient cars getting a percentage of the money they pay on gasoline taxes returned, or there could be an allowance for low-income people to drive a certain number of miles tax-free (or at least at a lower tax rate) so they can better afford to commute to their jobs.

And yes, I know the tax might be complicated to implement, and would result in an awful lot of political wrangling over what goods and services got taxed and at what rates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 15th 2024, 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC