Maybe Bush sold clueless Americans a war with the aid of the Media and a timid congress.....BUT

I'll be damned if Democrats at DU believe that they can sell other DUers the same type of bullshit.

I fucking marched against that War. And part of why I did it was exactly because I wasn't going to play anyone's fool.

So Hillary supporters who are trying to rationalize that Obama didn't know where he stood on the war, and other similar bullshit, should be warned that you are embarking on a dangerous and self destructing path.

To have to rationalize the disingenuous as to what really happened in 2002, as well as 2004.....and attempt to ignore the reasons why Obama tampered down his own antiwar sentiments during the 2004 Democratic National Convention (where the word was out everywhere that antiwar discussions were out, and George Bush criticism were out) must be a bitch.

How does it feel to be on the side of having to ignore common sense and the truth in order to stick to a story that doesn't make sense? :shrug:

It doesn't bode well for this party and to the survival of the art of critical thinking to have an entire wing of our party turn into dumbasses out of the blue!

The Republican candidates must be laughing their asses off, and I'm sure that they understand that if Hillary gets the nom, she won't have shit to say about anyone elses'war stance because she was one of the Timid "cowed down by Bush" status quo Democrats who enabled us into a dumbass war.

So go ahead and make our day......those who feel compelled to sell bullshit and intellectual dishonesty in order to make their case for their candidate, who with all of her "experience" has made so many mistakes and voted wrong on so many Foreign policy issues until it ain't even funny.

And as to the argument Hillary supporters use by stating...."Obama didn't have to vote, so what he said and thought doesn't count".....well, I say, just ask Al Gore about 2002 and the Iraq War and his opposition. Ask Al Gore if his speech didn't matter, just because he wasn't voting? Tell millions who marched that they should have simply sat on their asses in front of the TeeVee instead of taking to the streets, cause the only thing that counted were those votes in congress. They will tell you to kiss their collective asses....

try to "convince" me that I am wrong.

Read me the riot act, why don't you?

You said something that I didn't know - that anti-war and anti-Bush comments were not allowed in 2004? That was when the DLC was in full control?

No wonder so much stuff has worked against us.

How could anyone have voted for this so-called war? And now obfuscate their vote?

Our standard is Al Gore, Feingold, Wellstone and the others.

Does anyone have a link to that vote result with names or the Bill number?

Even those who didn't vote for the so-called war don't speak out that much.

And we should link Patriot Act with the war vote.

Those who voted for either or both contributed to our being controlled and ineffective.

K & R

and there are more.

But what I am gonna do is do a search here at DU for that time period....and find some threads in reference to how we were feeling at the time.....cause I distinctly remember.

or have put me on ignore not to have to deal with it, or are at this very moment attempting to write up a respond that won't make them look exactly as I have described.

This is their challenge.

truth to be kicked.

As though I'm going somewhere! :rofl:

Let's not bash bush at the convention?....how can we NOT?http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2065915

POLL: Do you agree with the "no bashing Bush policy" at the DNC?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2068653

Gore Convention Speech Being Rewritten
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2069654


The 2004 Democratic National Convention in Boston had one main purpose: to nominate Senator John Kerry to be the Democratic candidate for president. The party called on all speakers to tone down anti-George Bush rhetoric, hoping to prevent the party from being portrayed as just an opposition party. Many pundits felt that this directive made the convention bland and unexciting.

The keynote speaker for the convention was Barack Obama. Obama was a member of the Illinois State Senate, and the only black candidate for a seat in the United States Senate in 2004. Obama was a graduate of Harvard and a lecturer for the University of Chicago Law School.

While Obama's speech is highly partisan in several places (it was the keynote at a nominating convention after all), it puts into modern words many of the principles of America, including equality and opportunity. The speech is presented here in the tradition of the Declaration of Independence and of Martin Luther King, Jr.'s I Have a Dream Speech.
http://www.usconstitution.net/obama.html

I don't have a lot of posts so I try to be respectful to those who seem to have been here a while. But I do have many years of credentials at another popular site. They just don't post a lot there. But you can kiss my butt. I was attacked and nearly murdered, fired from my job and as good as black balled because I stood up against this war. And you did what? walked around with a sign in your hand? Broke a nail? Got a blister on your foot? Use some strong language about how you are going to complain? I am a history buff and knew the outcome before the first shell was launched.

EVERYTHING HRC said in regards to her vote and her opinion of, and the reasons why, can be found in the text of her speech. Her speech (which I bothered to read) dovetails with her words today. I accept her explanation and am willing to put it behind me.

Speaking about words...Without accusing me Hill or any one else Justify B.O. saying he was not sure how he would have voted? Are you saying his change of mind was not politically motivated? Or it is somehow ok to change your mind if it supports your beliefs today?

Sorry that I won't be around to see if you reply. I have to go work for a third of my former rate because I was and am willing to speak up, and if necessary, back up my words with action.

You ask: "Without accusing me Hill or any one else Justify B.O. saying he was not sure how he would have voted?"

John Kerry on ABC's "This Week": "Well, not only did he say the case has not been made, which was a very diplomatic way of saying John Edwards and John Kerry made a mistake, at a convention where he was about to speak and I was the nominee -- so, in effect, he showed considerable diplomatic tact and he managed to duck you guys because you might have had a story that my keynote speaker was, in fact, in a different position, which he was.

He spoke at an anti-war rally of some several thousand people, in which he talked about not being against all wars but being against a war where it didn't make sense and the case had not been made.

So I don't think there's any question but that Barack Obama had a position against the war. And he made it clear..."
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/Story?id=4127999&page=3

who also knew what the deal was, are being disingeneous about Barack Obama and why he was compelled to "tone it down".

Thank you John Kerry! :hi:

have gotten "attacked and nearly murdered, fired from my job and as good as black balled because I stood up against this war."

You left it out.

Since I "only" marched and called talk shows, wrote letters to the media and to congresspeople....please let us know what your actions of heroism against the war makes you now support Hillary Clinton. There are a lot of us who want to know.

Of course, since you are slaving, you won't be able to respond, as you have pre-warned.

But I'm not encouraged by Zbig Brzezinski as top dop on foreign policy and the Pakistan
comment. The next president needs to do a major military industrial detox treatment so
it's not more of the same.