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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:43 PM
Original message
Hillary Clinton made this primary about race.
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 02:44 PM by sparosnare
Her well-designed comment about MLK and LBJ was just ambiguous enough for her to go back and restate what she really meant (and have Bill do it too); but by invoking MLK, she got the desired result. That comment and the way it was stated was no accident.

Suddenly, the media was all over it and yes, comments from Obama's campaign and Obama supporters were made in retort. Not from Obama though. I commend him for staying above the fray.

Now the Clinton campaign is accusing the Obama campaign and worse, Obama himself, of injecting race into the primary. The tactic is repulsive because Obama's message is about bringing Americans together, not dividing us by race.

This tactic should be familiar to all of us - it's been used many times by Rove and the GOP to cut off political opponents at the knees. It's highly effective but also dishonest; the last thing I want to see is Democrats acting like Republicans.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I am not dumb and I don't hate Hillary. I have a question for you -
when will she admit her IWR vote was a mistake? Her inability to do so is beyond comprehension. If you haven't seen this yet, watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYATbsu2cP8

Maybe you will learn something about your candidate.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Probably as soon as Obama and all the others who have voted to fund the war
over and over admit they were/are in over their heads too. Just sayin'.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Fundamental difference there.
Watch the video.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Fundamentally very few in Congress did not endorse the war or funding
Or hasn't that been the day long bitch on DU for the last 7 years.... Clinton is not alone in this, nor is Obama. Note that the rest of Washington is munching on popcorn enjoying the show.
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. "You're" is generally the proper contraction of
"You are", fyi.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. The rest of the comments set the tone
If the other stuff hadn't happened, especially from Kerrey and Shaheen, then these other remarks wouldn't have taken a racial connotation.

I think it's sad that so many DUers are ignoring the odious remarks made to focus on these, which is really what the Clinton campaign wants you to do.

Oh, and not forget to be upset about Hillary being called "likeable enough", as if that's the insult of the century.
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I agree, this was all started by the Clinton campaign
and her supporters are making a lousy counterargument that it's somehow Obama's fault for something CLINTON said.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. It wasn't what he said, but the way he said it. You were watching, weren't you?
I ,personally, think that remark was odious. Enough said.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. She laughed and said "aw, thank you"
It was friendly teasing and she knew it at the time.
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's calculated.
She wants to make Obama the "black candidate" so white voters will vote for her.

The key is how Obama handles this.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
42. That's crazy. She is very popular with minorities because she
has always stood up for them. You are just whistling Dixie, as we say in the South, which is another way of saying "up yours".
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. I disagree with you concerning Hillary, but I love your sig line.
I miss them all. :hug:
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. She's doing it in a subtile way.
But she's slowly losing favor with minority voters with her obvious political moves.

It may cost her those same minority votes in November.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Very true. And it looks like...
...everyone has realized it.

I personally believe that Hillary is better than this. It's sad that her campaign has convinced her that she has to act this way to win. I couldn't disagree more.
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. it was BARACK who invoked mlk. get. it. straight.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oh nuts! The race shit came from the Obama side (Jackson, Jr.) How
can you pin this shit on someone else?

I hate having to stick up for Hillary Clinton. But you Obama people are something else.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Are you forgetting Shaheen and Kerrey?? n/t
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Nope. I'm just pointing out the source. And as for Kerry, I don't care what
that guy says.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Kerrey, from your state
One of the sources of the racist remarks.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
44. Kerrey from my state is a war criminal who was on the 911 Commission
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 03:49 PM by acmavm
and proved to be quite a neocon supporter as well. Screw Bob Kerrey.

But it started with the OBAMA supporters. And that you can't deny.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Yeah, when Shaheen and Kerrey made these remarks
And slurs kept on coming out of that campaign. People should just ignore racial slurs?
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vee Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. Reminds of the "you gonna let him say that to you!" school yard taunts, Hillary should be ashamed!
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hillary's comments about MLK and LBJ were clear and most important, historically precise......
...MLK's civil rights activism would have been in vain were it not for LBJ pushing the civil and voting rights legislation.

Ignorance of the history of those days is rampant or being maliciously overlooked for racist purposes by Obama supporters.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. There would have been no pushing for civil rights
If not for the movement created by Martin Luther King. It was a disrespectful thing to say.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Do I have to use a bouncing ball?
No one has diminished MLK's activism, nor anyone else's.

But, here pay close attention: the purpose of political activism, in most cases, is to effect legislation to bring about the changes being sought. Without those legislative or executive results, the activism is wasted!

Hillary said that Presidents are a vital part of that political activism - hand in hand with the Rosa Parks and the Martin Luther Kings of those days.

Get it now?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. John Edwards gets it right
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. She didn't make the comment to educate the crowd on civil rights.
She said it to draw a comparison to her and Obama (that was the context). It was a very divisive comment meant to stir emotion not make everyone feel good because government and those brave souls worked hand in hand.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
54. Educate the crowd on civil rights?
Uh, the "crowd" and way too many in other places know very little about civil rights and civil rights activism. Especially during that period. It wasn't just about "I have a dream".

What Hillary stated was very simple and articulate: You need great political strength to achieve your goals and especially your dreams in political activism.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. It's not about being historically precise.
Look between the lines - such a statement, the way it was phrased insinuates it took a white man to do what a black man couldn't. That's why it struck a chord and got such a response. It was genius really - because it gave Hillary and Bill the opportunity to revisit the comment over and over and over.

She could have said MLK and LBJ worked together to further the cause but she didn't.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
56. "...insinuates it took a white man to do what a black man couldn't."
And historically that is absolutely correct. There weren't enough blacks in office during that time. They came much later. So, you play up to the white man and make him listen to the people - all the people.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Because it is Presidents that give civil rights to the people
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 03:12 PM by dkf
The people...all they do is complain and beg for stuff.

That is why Hillary Clinton as President can give us Health Care and Pre-K Education and other goodies under our Christmas Trees.

She is so freaking condescending it is offensive.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. That's it! Thanks....
I hadn't been able to pinpoint my growing dislike for Hillary - you sum it up well.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. Oh no, Presidents do not give inalienable RIGHTS
They're OURS and we have the right to them. There should never have even needed to be law granting African Americans the rights outlined in the Declaration of Independence.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. hillary will give us shit just like she's
doing in the primaries.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. Good point. n/t
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vee Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Fixed it for you.
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 03:20 PM by vee
... LBJ pushing the civil and voting rights legislation would have been in vain were it not for MLK's civil rights activism.

Ignorance of the history of those days is rampant or being maliciously overlooked for racist purposes by Clinton supporters.


It's not a coincidence that civil rights legislation was enacted during one of our countries largest periods of civil unrest.
And it would not have been written or enacted had that unrest not have occurred.

The same way we would never leave Iraq if the decision was left solely to the government,
we will be exiting Iraq because it's the will of the people.
And whomever is President in 2009 had damn well better sign the necessary paperwork
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. If you think Hillary will bring the troops home, you need to rethink your support.
She will continue Bush's failed policies - she is the establishment, the status quo.
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vee Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Sorry, just fixed the hillary part
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. OK - that makes more sense now.
:hi:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
27. hillary is so fulla shite...she and her desperate
dlc, bill clinton triangulation, over the hill smearjeerers.

Fucker couldn't run on her own accomplisments.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
28. I don't take Hillary's comment as racist at all.
If that's all it takes for Obama's supporters to accuse someone of racism, then is candidacy is doomed.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. You misunderstand; I do not think Hillary is racist - she stirred the pot.
It was very calculated and invoked great emotion in a lot of people. If the primary is all about race, the issues get lost in the fog and Hillary won't have to answer serious questions about her support of Bush's war. Brilliant move for the Clinton campaign.
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
35. I call bullshit on your post..utterly without merit or truth.
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DemCam Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
49. 'Bout time and I thank you.
Hillary is brilliant and she does believe in election strategy
but Jesse Jackson did start all of this...and no doubt not approved
or created by Obama's campaign....or at least I can't imagine their
being that calculated. I sinceerely hope I'm not being completely
naive here.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
36. No ....Obama's minions made it about race and I hope it fucking blows up
in his face big time. I am sure it will
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. James Clyburn who has not endorsed anyone was offended
This didn't come from Obama. It comes from people who are pissed at Clinton for minimizing MLK.

Hillary really stepped into it now.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
38. Bullshit! Obama is pulling the race card and (hopefully) it will back~fire...
he may win SC because of his accusations of racism against the Clintons, but hopefully, other people will wake up to the fact that Obama has as much intention of uniting the country as george W had. Obama has made his campaign about anger not "Hope".
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. When did Obama accuse the Clintons of racism?
That's exactly what your post says. I challenge you to find one instance where he did so. Have fun looking.
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vee Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #39
50. It's like the movie "Fight Club" the guy spends the entire movie kicking his own ass and
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 04:59 PM by vee
all the while blaming it on some made up character.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
48. I don't recall Hillary marching out Al Sharpton...
...I believe it was Obama that did that. Hillary cannot mention someone who is black or mention the civil rights movement, lest Obama percieve it as some sort of a racist attack? The whole notion is absurd and it illistrates the thin skinned hypersensitivy of Obamas campaign and support base. Imagine how Obama would stand up the the withering, 24/7 viscious attacks Hillary has put up with for the last 15 years. Judging by his reaction to relatively minor criticisms, he would end up in a strait jacket right along with his supporters. The more he crys and whines every time he is criticized, the less and less I like him. Which candidate has the pair here?
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vee Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. I can't see Hillary holding up much longer to her own Boomerang tactics, It's gotta start hurting?
Edited on Sun Jan-13-08 05:04 PM by vee
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
52. I didn't see Hillary's people all over the msm bringing up Obama's reaction
to Katrina.

c'mon. Obama's campaign has dived into the mud.
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. yep; they're not attacking obama nearly as much as his folks are attacking her. nt
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
53. No, obama supporters did. nt
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