Tonight, I am curious...

Do the people who say they won't vote for the Dem nominee if it's not their candidate ...

Do they fully realize what will happen to our country if another Republican gets into office?

What horrendous road we will travel down with another Republican administration on board?

This truly frightens me.

We must have any Democrat (of the ones running, of course) win the White House...

Otherwise, our beloved country will vanish...

Just my two cents...

Amen.

Thank you...

it won't be a problem.

Would automatically be liked by many Democrats...

That's how it's supposed to work, anyhow!

I hear you, though...

Some candidates are very polarizing...

is very polarizing.

really we should be voting for the party or else we might as well have a bunch of independents running? Basically all the candidates would do a fine job.

In other countries eg UK you just get a candidate whether you like it or not. The ordinary member doesn't really get much of a say in who the candidate is!

The left feels marginalized. Marginalized by their own party (and even DU itself).

I understand the call for electoral unity (a call I support). However, is it not a bit presumptive and insensitive to ignore the concerns of the left (or worse) and also complain about their not playing along? I think it is, and long for the day when the ever present, implied hostility towards the left only comes from Republicans (and their cronies).

The "we are so nice they are so rude" spin is making me nauseous.

We have been led around by a lot of dem's who veer to the right once they get the nomination...

NOT voting for our Democratic Candidate for President will maintain the rethug's presidential power to finish off our country. WE don't want a repeat of 2000 and 2004 do WE?

No primary war until 2016!

Not quite as high on my list, but still important enough...

it is of prime importance, in terms of the future make-up of the SCOTUS, Civil Liberties, the War, the Economy,....

Hopefully, we'll end up with a nomination Independents can get behind, 'cause I think we're gonna' need their support.

:hi:

Yes, all those topics make our election of a Democrat most vital...

And yes, we sure as hell need the support of the Independents, and any of the Republicans that we can persuade to join us!

If we get all those people to support our nominee, then we will have gone a long way towards healing the huge gaps that currently divide us!

:hi:

That would be great and is possible now that I think of my past. All this Reagan talk reminded me of why I changed from voting for the man and not the party and it was Reagan. Voted for him twice, ugh, stupid, but by the time he was out of office I was a Democrat. That administration taught me quite a bit about how the repub party really thinks. So there is hope for a Democratic landslide due to disillusioned repubs.

I like Edwards but of course will vote for the nominee.

I know that I will definitely vote for the Dem in November. The Republicans are just too scary....and I do not want to contribute to their power in any way.

They must be stopped...

And we must do it honestly...

:hug:

It is a most important decision...

:hug:

seriously...at the end of the day do we want a Huck Theocracy, the terror of Ghouliani or more war w/ Mc Cain

That IS the bottom line...

It's fine to talk about corporate Dems and all the rest of it...

But at the end of the day, what do we really want...and can we really get it?

Not with a Republican we can't...

We must elect a Democrat, or suffer the consequences forever...

You have to be the only person in the world with the ability to post here and not get flamed. ???

Well, perhaps enough people know how I really am...

And choose not to flame me...

This is not the most controversial topic, either...

Thank you, sweetie...

NICE. She may be the single most pleasant poster on DU, with nary an unkind word to say to anyone.

Her reputation precedes her and it speaks volumes.

What was it Lincoln said? You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?

I think Peggy proves that. More people will dispassionately listen to and consider your ideas if you are civil and kind.

I believe we can all learn something from her.

And I agree--I'll vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter my personal preference.

I thank you for your very kind words...

I am truly touched...

:hug:

Did you realize how CLOSE you are to having 50,000 posts?

1. I'll vote for anyone but Candidate X. Candidate X is really a republican anyway, and the last thing I'm going to do is let them take over my party too.

2. If Americans continue to vote against their best interest and nominate someone who can't win the general (they feel that one candidate would absolutely NEVER win the general), then we deserve what we end up with. I'm not going to be a party to it. Maybe we have to really sink to the depths of hell before people will wake the fuck up.

I'm not saying I agree, but those are 2 of the arguments I've heard.

As for me, I personally feel that if Edwards isn't the nominee, I'll be holding my nose on election day and voting for whoever the Dem nominee is. To be honest, I wasn't sure that I could vote for Hillary until I saw a moran driving down the road with a bumper sticker on his pickup that read "Re-defeat Communism: Defeat Clinton." Well, I may not agree with her, or even like her that much, but I'm sure as hell not letting whoever THAT guy supports win!

I've heard those arguments too...

And I understand them...

But we really have NO choice...

Not if we truly want to fix our broken country...

Now you know I like Kucinich...

And I am not any too fond of Hillary...

But I'll still vote for her if she gets the nomination...for all the reasons I said above...

Whoever it is, is better than any of the Republicans...

to "whoever it is, is better than any of the Republicans"...I was sort of unconvinced for a while. But I'm there now. And I will vote for whoever the nominee is, even if I'm less than happy about it.

As for Kucinich, he used to be my strong second. I'm absolutely not going to smear a Dem candidate on this board, but for many reasons he has fallen back into the "tied for 2nd, but I don't want any of you, really" category. If you want specifics, I'll PM, but...yeah...I'm not gonna turn your actually very civil thread (how do you do it?!) into a flamewar. ;)

:hug:

I will vote for the Democratic candidate!!

A smart-ass!

He's really not a Democrat, plus he's not on any ballot I'm aware of!

:rofl:

:hug:

I'm NEARLY 40, so can't read as well as I used to!!!:dunce: :rofl:

What utter nonsense!

:rofl:

:hug:

That is critical!

Especially the Supreme Court Judges!

Thank you...

Clarence Thomas, Alito and Roberts. The Republicans really steamrolled those candidates past a stiff opposition, didnt they?

liberal judges in Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

It's always better to have a Democrat choosing the judges as opposed to the Republicans/Bushes (Thomas, Alito and Roberts).

Nuclear option? They nuked us big time. I think your point can be turned on its head by
reminding you how many appointees were blocked by the Republican minority in BJ's day.
Why cant we get the same service on our side?

vote for the lesser of two evils.

But it is what it is.

The Democrats remain the lesser of two evils.

Keep in mind, I'm from Alabama, OK?

I've talked to my Mom (79, grew up during the Depression), my
sons-of-the-South brothers, my diehard redneck BIL, my member
of the United Daughters of the Confederacy wife, and many local
members of my Small Town, AL home.

Most agree that change is badly needed, and they're willing and
eager to vote for whoever can bring about that change-be it a white
woman or an African-American man.

The times they are a-changin' indeed!

:)

Wow, the times they are a-changin' indeed!

If we get enough folks like all the people you know, we will succeed in November!

The prospect of that happening lift my heart like little else does!

:woohoo:

But I guarantee it's a little more purple!

At least that's a start.

:loveya:

:loveya:

:kick:

Aw, thanks!

I truly appreciate your support...:hug:

It means a lot to me...

:hug:

:hug:

Another Repuke administration would sink this country for good. :scared:

R&K!

It is a truly scary proposition...

Thanks for your rec!

:hug:

Chris Dodd was my pick; now I'm a free agent. this is going to be my last election as strictly a US Citizen; I'm applying for Canadian Citizenship this year and when I'm granted my papers I promised myself that I would never vote in a US Election again. I don't care whether it's Edwards, Obama, or Hillary Clinton; I'm voting for the Democratic candidate.

How else could they say such things?

Thank you for your commitment to our Democratic candidate!

I know you will love living in Canada!

:hug:

No question about it.

Considering such is on the line, a hearty K & R for the unvarnished truth.

:toast:

Thank you for your very compelling remarks!

Which I can see as I respond, but cannot see in my thread!

That is weird...

I appreciate your K&R very much!

:toast:

On edit: Ah, I see now...you edited your post before I had a chance to respond!

The totalitarian bastards are watching, and the day is coming when being a fan of Tom Paine, Thomas Jefferson or James Madison is a Bushie Throughtcrime.

So, (COMMENT REDACTED).

President anyway. Because if Hillary wins, Bloomberg is going to run and spend a ton of money making sure she doesn't

But do you really think he will take from the Dems?

I hope not...

We must put our backs into our effort!

Democrat

If another Repuglican gets elected we can count on devistation to all that we as Dems hold dear. We won't be able to fix what is broken now and we will watch it only get much much worse.

I'm hoping those who feel differently than I do will seriously consider what I've said here...

It really does scare me to consider how damaging another Republican administration would be...

Thank you...

Cleaning up after the Bush Administration is going to take years. Everything the Bush Administration touched is slimed.

I've go to respect any Democrat that steps up to the plate.

It will be thankless, and it will look endless...

But hopefully, with us controlling the Congress, things will move along well...

A ton of respect for whoever our winner is!

we got nothing but excuses and more of the same

they gave king george MORE than what he asked for to escalate the occupation of Iraq.

they refused to even vote on restoration of habeas corpus.

they refused to even vote on eliminating unconstitutional provisions of the PATRIOT Act.

they appear to have acquiesced silently to a corporation deciding who gets to run for president.

they have done nothing to improve the health care morass.

they have done nothing to stop torture or to hold torturers accountable.

they have done nothing to slow the transfer of wealth into the hands of the top 1.5% .

things have gotten worse, not better, since 2006.

30+ years of repuke rule (Clinton was basically a moderate repuke, slightly to the right of Richard Nixon, for example) and a radical rightward shift in the SCOTUS have not seen Roe v. Wade overturned.

The leading "Democrats" are true free-trade corporatists.



Two questions:

1. How could things possibly get any worse if a repuke were to win?

2. Why should I believe that any of the leading "Democrats" will actually change anything?

I don't want a flamewar here, or anywhere...

So I'll leave it at that.

But this thread was my reaction to yours...

the utter silence from the party and from the other candidates regarding GE deciding who is and who is not allowed to participate in a Democratic Candidates' debate was my last straw.

I don't want a flamewar either. Since 1976, I have never not voted for a Democrat in any local or national election, but I sincerely no longer believe that party represents my best interests.

His presidency taught me the difference between Dems and repubs. When Bill Clinton was elected I was one happy camper. Let's face it, those were some of our best years. Remember Nixon? Have you noticed how when a Dem gets the presidency the repubs will do and say anything to trash their administration. Carter was a disappointment, but, remember how Reagan and his boys went behind his back and made secret deals to get the prisoners released from Iran to be sure Carter couldn't get credit for their release and possibly win re-election? Hell, minutes after Reagan was sworn in the prisoners were released. Nope, no more votes for a damn repub.

Since I complimented Bill figured I should declare that my primary vote goes to Edwards.

Look what the Bush Administration has done to the Justice Department, the EPA, the FDA and everything else they have touched.

We now have a "Department of Homeland Security" which sounds like an agency named by Nazis, yet it is run by corrupt and bumbling fools like the Nazis of "Hogan's Heros."

Look at the Supreme Court. A Republican Administration would surely find a few more creepy-crawlies like John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, or Antonin Scalia -- men you wouldn't want to shake hands with if there was no soap in the bathroom.

Even if one is cynical and doesn't think the Democrats will "change" anything, at least they won't throw so much shit at us.

This election the Republicans are fielding a bunch of demented clowns. What the heck, they got Bush into the White House.

At the very least the Democratic candidates do not stand behind their podiums smirking and posturing and praising themselves like obnoxious and ordinary drunks.

elicits such a negative response within his or her party that at this early point then there is a very good possibility that that person will not win the general election - especially if that person enters the race with historic negative numbers.

Anyone who truly polarizes the Dems to that point should not be our nominee...

Time will tell...

We must decide carefully.

is that if it gets to an extended fight in all 50 states it could end up that the only candidate who is in a position to finance such a campaign is the one that is also very polarizing (for exactly the reason that that candidate has sold out to the commercial interests to such a degree.

I support Obama
I would vote for Edwards against any Republican
I won't vote for Clinton for any reason (I can't belive a word she or her husband says)
I MAY vote for McCain over Clinton if that is my only choice, but I would be holding my nose as I did it.
I won't even consider voting for any other Republican

Don't forget that almost half the country say they will never vote for Hillary. It isn't just me.

Read carefully just what all the Republican candidates want to do to our country...

I caution you...

Any one of the Democratic candidates (and yes, I include Hillary) is better than any one of the Republicans...

I used to respect McCain, but no longer...

Anyone who has embraced the Republican party, and its leader the way he has, is not worthy of being President...

IMHO, of course.

I do disagree though


I simply can't believe anything either Clinton says.

I am tired of trying to pick out tiny bits of truth out of the seas of lies that our last two presidents have been putting forward for the last 15 years.

I would rather deal with someone who I disagree with who is honest with me than someone who says they agree with me who I can't believe.


The only HUGE problem I have with McCain is the Iraq War. Yes, it is the biggest problem we are facing right now but at least he has a strong military background and should be able to not screw it up the way W. has. He is moderate on things like Immigration, ethics reform and campaign financing.
Also he is so old that there is already talk of him being a one term president. That would give Barack a great shot in 2012 (he should be the presumptive democratic nominee if Hillary loses in '08).

I am just being honest, and you asked.

I can't vote for Hillary and there is a slight chance that I may vote against her. (in the general, I already voted Uncommitted in the MI primary)

to turn this country around. It is sad and it is disheartening.

And there are big problems...

I really think that stressing out over how we cannot individually solve things is counterproductive...

And I don't mean to belittle your comments...

Nobody can solve everything alone...

We need good leaders in the WH and in the Congress to start moving in the right direction again...

I hope, and will work for, this goal...

We must each one of us, do what we can...and let the rest go...

I flat do NOT believe either of the other two candidates will be good for this country.
I went from believing I can hold my nose to vote for at least one of them to not sure I can.
You are right. We need good leaders. I believe there is only ONE who is running who will be a good leader.
Congress doesn't impress me much. They've done nothing but roll over for this unhinged madman at the helm when they really didn't have to. Unless some of those folks are replaced with true progressives, I have no reason to believe that they won't continue to further the republican agenda, just as they are right now.
With at least ONE of the POTUS candidates, I have absolutely no faith that ANY progressive cause will be addressed. It will be continued capitulation to the republicans to prove to the world that they are not "partisan".
I surely wish I could share in your optimism. However, I've seen nothing to show me that my worst fears won't be realized.
However...thank you so much for at least one kind, optimistic thread in here.:hug:

doesnt it scare people to think this rationalization is even necessary?
Not to mention nonsensical given the amount of resistance a Democratic majority has given to
Thomas, Alito, Roberts and domestic spying?
If you think your frightened, you should try to imagine how I feel when people try to justify the greater of two evils within the Democratic Party.

I wish we Dems could come together on our nominee...

I'm hoping we will after this primary season is over.

BTW, Welcome to DU!

:hi:

We really need to demand JUSTICE, all the rest will follow.
There can be no peace or democracy without justice, and
who here clings to the notion we have justice, let alone equal justice under the law?
Hey look, a PONY!

I have been completely disappointed in the Democrats since the 06 elections.

If we had been stronger and held people accountable years ago I doubt we would be in such a mess now.

Our votes are taken for granted and they will continue to be taken for granted until we shout out that they have to be earned.

That is how I feel at this point, maybe things will change come November, although the chances are slim.

And aside from our country look what we are allowing to happen in Iraq while our Congress, and that includes the Dems, allow benchmarks in the bill to pressure Iraq to privatize their resources.

If our candidates and party do not speak up they are complicit and I cannot in good conscience vote for the carnage to continue.

I just posted this in the GD forum, they are fighting us for their country and control of resources. Even though the top three say they will remove troops they have not acknowledged what we are doing.


Sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better :(



Nationalists Stirring in Iraq "..blocking the privatization of Iraq's oil"

"On January 13 an emerging Sunni-Shiite nationalist bloc in Iraq signed a groundbreaking agreement aimed at ending Iraq's civil war, blocking the privatization of Iraq's oil industry and checkmating the breakaway Kurdish state. It's a big step forward, and it could change the face of Iraqi politics in 2008.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2702613

do you really think it will be any different if a Democrat wins? . . . the struggle is no longer Democrats v. Republicans -- it's the people v. the corporate/government oligarchy in DC, encompassing both parties . . .

the war in Iraq will not end if Hillary Clinton is elected . . . it will not end if Barack Obama, or John Edwards, or even Dennis Kucinich is elected . . . the world's largest "embassy" is nearing completion, and Iraq still sits on an ocean of oil . . . the decision has been made, and no new president is going to be able to change it . . .

same scenario for most other issues . . .

I have a long memory. I remember in 1968 that many of my progressive friends refused to vote for Hubert Humphrey because of the Chicago Convention fiasco. So they just stayed away from the polls on election day.

And look what we got.

I was the first vote I ever cast (do the math and you'll know exactly how old I am!), and I had to hold my nose to do it. But Richard Nixon was not my fault! And Romney/Huckabee/McCain (gods forbid!) won't be either. I prefer Kucinich or Edwards, but I can live with a Clinton or Obama if that's how it falls out. That's why I'm not eager to slime any Democratic candidate, although I may not agree with everything he or she stands for, and will staunchly support my guys. I think it's important that we critique their platforms, but personal attacks are not productive.

YMMV

A Dem nominee who doesn't win the Left isn't going to make any substantive change, and I perfectly understand those who don't see much difference between Dems and the GOP. I think they're wrong, but maybe they believe that holding themselves hostage in sufficient numbers could pull our nominee away from corporate fascism.

It's easy to point a finger those who will let another damned Republican waltz into office (or who say they will), but remember to reserve a share of the blame for our candidates who didn't win all our votes.

It's my vote and if I don't like or trust the nominee, they don't get my vote...simple as that.

<edit to add>

For the record, I really don't have a candidate at the moment.

But until the nominee is decided, I will support my candidate.

ourselves in the foot.

Many of us have had our lives destroyed by loss of jobs due to outsourcing and h1-b visa replacements.

I won't vote for more of the same....

<edit to add> I sure as hell would like to know what people on DU do for a living that outsourcing doesn't seem to be a concern. LOTS more jobs can be outsourced.

Does every one realize what will happen in 2012 if a Dem gets elected this year and doesn't do anything to fix the problems in this country? How much damage will that do to the party long-term?

I for one, am not going to help send the Republicans back to the White House. I will vote for the Democratic candidate. All 3 of them, flaws and all are FAR superior to any of the Republicans. And the choice is one of them, or a Republican. And NO they are not the same. Geez :mad:

I'm sure a few are serious, but I'd be willing to bet most of it is just dramatics - 'vote for my candidate or else.'

Either way, you can bet quite a bit that I will be voting for our nominee no matter what.