John Zogby is the reason I do not trust polls

http://www.bentcorner.com/2008/01/16/john-zogby-is-the-reason-i-do-not-trust-polls/

While I was in the Air Force and stationed in upstate New York, I took a few college classes so I could finish an Associates degree that I started years earlier. One of the local colleges, Utica College of Syracuse University held night classes on the Air Force base. The classes met once a week for about four hours.

They were your typical community college night classes. One of the classes I took was European history. It was taught by a man named John Zogby. He’s the same John Zogby that owns and operates a successful political polling business called Zogby International. He’s frequently on cable TV news discussing how any given politician is doing in any given election. He and his polls are often mentioned by political pundits.

The class took place during the 1992 presidential elections. I guess it was a busy time for Zogby’s polling business. So busy that Zogby presented a somewhat “unusual” proposition to the class: anyone that came into his polling business and did eight hours of telephone polling would have their final grade for the class raised one whole level.

I have to admit the proposition sounded good. Our final grade for the class was based on two things - the midterm exam and the final exam. Both were predominantly essay type questions. Because each test made up 50% of the overall grade, if you tanked the midterm, the best you could hope for as a final grade was a “C”. You could only get that if you absolutely aced the final.

Most of us agreed to his offer. Before any of us could actually go to Zogby’s polling center and work the phones, we had our midterm exam. I got my exam back with an “A”. Getting such a high grade on the midterm guaranteed that I would finish the class with at least a “C” which also meant I didn’t need to worry about raising my final grade one whole grade level. I was getting my 3 credit hours no matter what I did or didn’t do on the side for Zogby.

I decided not to work eight hours at Zogby’s polling business.

It turned out I was not the only one. Two weeks after returning our exams, Zogby went around the room to ask each one of us when we could come in and work for him. Everyone he called upon replied that they had changed their mind and wouldn’t be working at his polling business after all.

He realized something was going on. He stopped asking us individually and instead asked for a show of hands of the people that were still planning on working for him. Nobody raised their hand. He asked us as a group why we had all changed our minds. At first no one said anything. The silence seemed to last for a very long time. Finely one student raised her hand and said, “I thought about it and it seemed wrong to get college credit in European history by working at your polling business. It seemed unethical”.

If I learned one thing in John Zogby’s European history class, it was that John Zogby doesn’t like to be called “unethical”.

The man freaked out. To say he lost his temper is downplaying it. He said that he had never been accused of doing anything unethical before and he resented the implication.

He finally calmed down and even apologized for his tirade. He went on to explain that no one would be required to work at his polling place and that he wanted to just forget the whole thing. He then proceeded with that night’s lesson. That lasted for all of three minutes. He suddenly stopped the lecture and gave in to his anger all over again. He said that he could not get over the fact that anyone could accuse him of being unethical. He claimed that he couldn’t get it out of his mind.

I just remember feeling extremely uncomfortable. Why did he ask the question if he was going to have such a hissy fit over the answer? The whole thing seemed strange, especially considering that his business is based on asking people questions.

He eventually calmed down again. The class continued on. Thankfully, nothing more was said about it.

I ended up finishing the class receiving a “C” for a final grade. This can only mean I received and “F” on my final. There’s no other way for my grade to have dropped so much. I never got my final exam back. The exam was taken the last evening the class met. I only found out my final grade from getting something in the mail a few weeks later.

I remember feeling that the final exam was no more difficult then the midterm. I remember feeling confident after taking it. To think that I was able to score an “A” on the midterm and an “F” on the final seemed a little ridiculous to me.

I think he gave my final exam a failing grade not because I didn’t know the material, but because I originally agreed to work at his business and then reneged on the deal. Being that both tests were predominantly essay questions, he had a lot of room to be subjective. I’m not even sure at this point which of the two grades I deserved the least. The “A”on the midterm or the “F” on the final. For all I know, I only got an “A” on the midterm because I originally agreed to work at his polling center. In my opinion, he was being dishonest with at least one of the grades.

I would have complained to the school, but I had to take one more class to earn enough credits for my Associates degree. Something that at the time I thought was important to have. I didn’t want to rock the boat. Plus, I didn’t really care. My goal for the class was to get my 3 credit hours in history and move on.

I don’t know if John Zogby is unethical. For all I know, it’s completely ethical for community college teachers to base grades on how much unpaid work their students do for them at their place of business. Maybe that’s just the way it’s done.

I just wouldn’t trust anything he says or does.

on their phone banks. It's actually good work for college kids.

He has a reputation for being very ethical, and independent, actually. I think that's why he's no longer polling for the NYPost, rag that it is.

So, unprofessional for him to rant at you like that? Yes.

A good opportunity lost by some - you were at Griffiss, I guess, and didn't need the work - college students to have a part-time job. No mean feat in Utica. His old office was across Bleecker from Cafe Caruso, my favorite Italian bakery in Utica. Hillary Clinton was on CNN campaigning in the Florentine acroos Mohawk on Bleecker - named for Rutger Bleecker - in 2000.

Our work was for a bump in our final grade, nothing more. I could have understood if the class has anything remotely to do with politics. It didn't. It was on European history.

as phonebanks really need people. They're often college kids. Kids that did well would, no doubt, be offered jobs.

He's known for being a very ethical pollster, so much so, other pollsters hate his, 'I'm smarter/purer than you are'. He mentioned on C-Span once how he usually voted Democratic, yet polled for R's and the NYPost. Not many folks would admit that.

All pollsters poll for one party or the other. Utica's congressman, Sherry Boehlert, was R, and that's probably what got him started on that track.

really, no question about it.

and it explains why he got his start doing polling for corporate interests, not politics.

The only polls I bother reading are Harris and AP/Ipsos/Reid. The others either load theirs or have other questionable methods. The two I pay attention to tell it like it is.

I do the online Zogby polling mostly to see what sort of questions are being asked. I never bother to consult the results.