Does anyone else think that the Clinton machine....

... is the best chance we have of beating the Repugs in the general election? I like Obama, but I don't think he has the seasoned leadership, the guys who have already been in the trenches before and the established ground game to fight the GOP political smear machine. Gore tried to fight it in 2000, we lost (although we won the popular vote). Kerry tried to fight it in 2004, we lost. The Clintons and their machine have the political saavy and experience to fight the swiftboating and the barbs that the Repugs have made themselves famous for over the years.

Everybody who says that Hillary is unelectable, referencing the latest polls showing that she would get beat by every GOP nominee, and the fact she is supposedly "unelectable" are quite simply ignoring what the Clinton machine will do to convince the general public otherwise as we near November.

I like Obama's ideals, I think he is a great candidate, but I think Hillary has the biggest chance of fighting the GOP machine and getting the Democrats back in the Oval office, and in the end that is the most important thing. I'll most likely vote for Obama on Super Tuesday, but I won't be heartbroken if Hillary wins the nomination because I realize what she brings to the table, and what her machine will bring to the table, and that we could use a candidate that will be on the offensive during their campaign, instead of the defensive (Gore, Kerry).

So no, I don't think whatever credibility they had, that lent power to their machine, is going to be effective anymore. I'll never believe anything they say again.

n/t

"are quite simply ignoring what the Clinton machine will do to convince the general public otherwise as we near November." If that is true, er...what will she do that she has not done in the last two decades?

and why this doesn't seem to matter to anyone - except more conservative types who don't like his progressive policies - will forever baffle me.

The media has ignored the truth of his electability, the campaign has done little to get it out, and the supporters of other candidates are less than truthful about it (by which I mean Obama surrogates, and BO himself, have repeatedly said that BO does better against Republicans than other Dems, which is simply not true).

We did this in O4, and we're doing it again...mistaking primary victories for GE electability.

This has been my thinking exactly. When people talk about HRC's high negatives, I ask them if they know whose negatives are higher ? John Kerry-and the repug machine did that to him in 3 weeks after the convention. HRC is bullet proof and they know how to fight and not just stand there and take a Dukakis beating

Obama is ideally the candidate I would like in the White House, I agree with him the most, but Hillary is a great compromise. Hillary will not back down from GOP smear attacks like Kerry did in 2004. She will attack them head on. Her machine may be the most valuable asset of the Democrat party in getting elected.

opps

I think the ClintonInc Machine would be a exactly what we don't need to win in November, or to govern afterwards.

They would effectively act as a "poison pill" for the entire Democratic side of the ballot.

Not only would there be negative coattails in the 2008 race, but even if the Clintons get back in the White House, we can fully expect them to let down the progressive movement like they did in the 1990s.

They would simply finish up the work they did for Newt Gingrich's ideas and "Contract For America" and have more policies like:

NAFTA

The Telecommunications Act

The Defense of Marriage Act

China free trade deals

Additionally we should expect these conclusions:

We would be in more wars as Hillary is craving to do to embellish the PNAC agenda.

Any chance of healthcare reform will not happen.

Any reasonable legislation to stop global warming will not happen.

Any stoppage of outsourcing jobs will not happen.

The Iraq War would continue unabaited

Civil unions and domestic partnership legislation would not pass

The Patriot Act would continue

Making the desecration of the American flag could be a federal crime

Political gridlock and partisan bickering would greatly increase


Actually, the worse thing can happen besides what I see would happen if the Clintons continued their dynasty in the White House. Just by the fact that the Clintons and namely Hillary Clinton is a very divisive character, she will not be able to mobilize the Democratic base and will send Independents and otherwise shaky moderate Republicans to vote for the Republican nominee and we would lose not only the White House, but the Senate and Congress due to overwhelming Republican turnout and tepid Democratic turnout combined with political negative coattails from her candidacy.

Is it worth " a roll of the dice"? To say that the Clintons running as the nominee (that's what it is) would not be the best thing for the Republicans is indeed a "fairy tale".

best machine in the business...no one has a better staff and better independent support websites than hillary.

she has a former president on the road for her and 8 years of experience in the whitehouse that the undecided like in a candidate.

ya can`t touch her...

anything could happen, including a combined erosion of progressive support and the apathetic who see politicians as "all the same" and swing voters who might give the dems a chance but don;t want a replay of the nastiness of the 90's.

The fact that the primaries are becoming so epically nasty is evidence of what will happen in the General when their presence will also help to rev up the GOp nasty machine.

The repubs hate Clinton precisely because he was the one Democrat able to play the game of dirty politics better than they could. He's demonstrated he's still fully capable of using those tactics in a primary race against another Dem. I don't think he will come out as strongly against an opponent in the general election - he seems to value his ability to rub elbows with the rich and well, the mega rich too much. He'd never be caught dead trashing the reccord of the boy king - it might piss off his new asshole buddy daddy bush.

Bill Clinton consistently criticizes the foreign and economic policy of the current administration.

I suppose if no facts support your opinions, it's okay to start making them up.

I'm sure Bill will pull out all the stops to get his wife elected, whether or not it means burning bridges with his "friends".

That's why the mainstream media is craving for Obama to get the nod. They know that it will be 4 more years of Republican rule if Obama is our nominee and that means less taxes taken out of their hefty wallets again.

a President. It is, without doubt, the epitome of the reason we need to vote for Obama or Edwards. She cannot win independents, she cannot win crossover Republicans, many in the Democratic party will not vote for her. Aside from being unelectable, it is time to end the Bush/Clinton domination of the United States, which now dates back to the 1980s. It is enough. On principle alone, she has no place in the Oval Office. Her denial of that fact and her singular pursuit of power at any cost is more than enough reason not to trust her motivation.

he'll be prepared to handle himself against the republicans. I don't see any difference between the Campaign tactics of Clintons and the Repubs, so if Obama can get past the Clintons he should be able to get past the republican.