MCCLURKIN REDUX: Kirbyjon Caldwell, Pastor who will campaign for Obama, leads "EX-GAY" MINISTRY

I cannot believe this is happening AGAIN.

Kirbyjon Caldwell, former "spiritual adviser" to George W. Bush, will campaign for Barack Obama.

From the Houston Chronicle:



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5469706.html

In fact, Caldwell has already been on the campaign trail for Obama. His name was overlooked at the time, but a little digging reveals that Caldwell was also part of Obama's S.C. gospel tour featuring "ex-gay" bigot Donnie McClurkin:



http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/10/29/post_159.html

Here's the kicker: CALDWELL IS THE SENIOR PASTOR OF METANOIA MINISTRIES, AN OUTFIT WHOSE WEBSITE ADVERTISES "A PROGRAM CREATED TO PROVIDE CHRIST CENTERED INSTRUCTION FOR THOSE SEEKING FREEDOM FROM HOMOSEXUALITY, LESBIANISM, PROSTITUTION, SEX ADDICTION AND OTHER HABITUAL SINS."

METANOIA is apparently an offshoot of United Methodist Church.

Here is a link to METANOIA's website:

http://www.kingdombuilders.com/templates/cuskingdombuilders/details.asp?id=23260&PID=236324


This is actually WORSE than McClurkin. This man actually RUNS an organization that ministers to youth to "cure" them of their sexual orientation. These organizations result in severe psychological trauma and death to GLBT youth not to mention an environment that encourages violence and discrimination against gay, lesbian and transgender people. Obama supporters: tell your candidate that it is UNACCEPTABLE to have this man campaign for Obama again, no matter how much he "disagrees" with his message. This is the last straw, and if Obama allows this man to appear on his behalf I will do EVERYTHING in my power, including campaign for his opponents, to work against his candidacy. :grr:

I don't see the invitation.

Kinda of like Karl Rove saying that he endorses Hillary Clinton and will be inviting her to his home maybe.

and has been in contact with their campaign to appear for Obama.

:shrug:

I'd better ask Santorum, the Newt and Inhoffe to "contact" the good Senator from New York then....since they pray with her. I'm sure that they are all for civil rights of Gay folks, right?:sarcasm:

what may startle people, including her supporters, is that the group she has associated herself with since 1993 which sponsors these groups as well as the National Prayer Breakfast is very conservative and exclusive. Known now as the Fellowship, it is a group that reporter Sharlet knows very well given his past investigative pieces in Harper's Magazine several years ago, and a Rolling Stone piece about Sam Brownback in 2006. Digby has written about this group as well. Even though Mother Jones will not post the piece online until Tuesday, I have been given permission to post segments of the piece in the extended entry. I encourage all of you to buy the current issue and read the piece for yourselves, because Hillary’s association with the Fellowship may lead some to question her judgment and true beliefs, given what the group stands for. http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/010937.php




Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics
For 15 years, Hillary Clinton has been part of a secretive religious group that seeks to bring Jesus back to Capitol Hill. Is she triangulating—or living her faith?

September 01 , 2007

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."
<>These days, Clinton has graduated from the political wives' group into what may be Coe's most elite cell, the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast. Though weighted Republican, the breakfast—regularly attended by about 40 members—is a bipartisan opportunity for politicians to burnish their reputations, giving Clinton the chance to profess her faith with men such as Brownback as well as the twin terrors of Oklahoma, James Inhofe and Tom Coburn, and, until recently, former Senator George Allen (R-Va.). Democrats in the group include Arkansas Senator Mark Pryor, who told us that the separation of church and state has gone too far; Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is also a regular.

Unlikely partnerships have become a Clinton trademark. Some are symbolic, such as support for a ban on flag burning with Senator Bob Bennett (R-Utah) funding for research on the dangers of video games with Brownback and Santorum. But Clinton has also joined the gop on legislation that redefines social justice issues in terms of conservative morality, such as an anti-human-trafficking law that withheld funding from groups working on the sex trade if they didn't condemn prostitution in the proper terms. With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act; she didn't back off even after Republican senators such as Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter pulled their names from the bill citing concerns that the measure would protect those refusing to perform key aspects of their jobs—say, pharmacists who won't fill birth control prescriptions, or police officers who won't guard abortion clinics.

Clinton has championed federal funding of faith-based social services, which she embraced years before George W. Bush did; Marci Hamilton, author of God vs. the Gavel, says that the Clintons' approach to faith-based initiatives "set the stage for Bush." Clinton has also long supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a measure that has become a purity test for any candidate wishing to avoid war with the Christian right.
http://www.motherjones.com/cgi-bin/print_article.pl?url=http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html
---------------------------

and Caldwell has already officially campaigned for Obama. And will do so even more formally, according to the article.

Nice try at misdirection.

I've been more than disappointed with all the "frontrunners" when it comes to my issues. I've avoided the primary dust-ups around here because I was going to be a good little fag and support the eventual nominee but this -- this -- is beyond my capacity to accept. And no attempt to deflect this by saying "Hillary does it, too" makes it acceptable.

Honestly, the lack of empathy by some Obama supporters is outrageous.

Because I KNOW Obama won't apologize. He didn't apologize for McClurkin and he won't be apologizing for this. It would be nice if the Advocate were to have this story...and will publish it.

Like you said...there are limits. I've said on DU over and over that I would vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter what. I just can't do it. I just can't. There are limits to the disrepect we GLBT people are getting from the Presidential candidates. Obama, Edwards, Clinton saying that they can't support our rights to marriage equality because...well, they just can't. Clinton saying that she'll support only partial repeal of DOMA.

But this...this is too fucking much. I just can't do it.

Obama will not be getting my vote if he's the nominee.

he doesn't share those views.

doesn't mean he shares the same views in any way.

:sarcasm:

Now that Obama has enlisted the support of an ex-gay shill to his campaign, no amount of rhetoric can sway me to cast my ballot for him. Men are known by their deeds, not their words. Did not some messiah-figure of the past say such?

But knowledge is power, and truly reveals the Obama campaign stripes. If Obama is our nominee, unless Obama he comes out forcefully and unequivocally denounces the exgay illusion and its perpetrators, I will seriously have to consider not voting for president for the first time in my voting age life. It really pisses me off to have to even consider this decision, but I will not throw myself under the wheels of the bus just to get a democrat elected.

Because I can't vote for Obama if he willingly associates with these deluded self hating idiots. And I won't vote for Hillary under any circumstances.

who constantly angles every issue even when it's horribly wrong to make it sound like it's no big deal....


"meh! the guy works to brainwash gay youth and actively is on Obama's campaign trail and is a bigwig minister who is heavily connected to the Bush's, meh! big deal!"


PUH-LEASE!

The game is over - Obama, unless he rejects this - is DONE FOR.

Clinton will be my, and many people's #2, and I will be informing my parents that if they don't back Clinton or Edwards, or don't vote, I will not be speaking to them for some time - because of how HORRIBLE these groups are that do this to young people - it is TORTURE - and there's nothing "Christian" about it.

Go ahead, say some twisted crap saying how great Obama is... blah blah blah...

What a false leader he's turning out to be - thankfully it's happening now so I know what type of "Christian" he is showing himself to be. I'm not impressed.

Sorry. Nothing to see, please move on.

Are you ever relevant or sensible? Didn't think so.

Good to know Obama supporters are loyal to a fault.

There's supporting your candidate, and then there is foolishness.

Trying hard is not what she does best. There is a word for her ilk.....FUCKWITTAGE.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:scared:very sad indeed.:-(

I don't think he's pandering.

but whatever his motives are, this is just revolting.

And it's not clear to me what, if any, political benefit Obama gets from hanging out w/this type of people. Maybe if it was the general election, you could say that he was trying to appeal to the anti-gay marriage vote like Karl Rove did. But this is the Democratic primaries, when most voters are more liberal and supportive of gay rights. I tend to think that the truth is actually the opposite - that Obama is trying to pander & *appear* tolerant of gays during the primaries, but that his associations reveal his real position.

and just look how swell that worked out

:popcorn:

I'm sure they'll have it covered.

Obama is lecturing a congregation not to be homophobic.

He said "gays should be embraced".

Many in the "ex-gay" movement also use this phrase. Love the sinner, but hate the sin.

Nothing in Obama's speech today contradicted that.

It's all code words to people of this movement.

Right Wing movers and shakers have been using that line to justify their pompous,hateful prejudices for a long time.

but I was being sarcastic anyway.

My issue is Obama spends a great deal of time telling us whats wrong with other people, Boomers, Diseased Democrats, and anti-gay, anti-semitic, anti-immigrant congregations...

Somehow he distances himself from being a boomer, diseased democrat and sharing the values of the congregation

That language is also official Catholic Church policies on homosexuality..."love the sinner, hate the sin". You can be gay or lesbian...just don't act on any same-sex attractions. In other words, live a life of loneliness and permanent sacrifice...and you are seen as "all right" in the eyes of the Church.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Obama is the homophobe's candidate of choice. He sure gets endorsed by enough of them.

Sickening, sickening stuff...

Shall we dance?

is this a pattern?

http://rodonline.typepad.com/rodonline/2008/01/barack-obama-li.html

"Omar is a great guy," the senator tells the Las Vegas Sun. "That’s not an endorsement. He’s not my favorite person, but he’s a fascinating character."

Much more context if you listen to the accompanying audio interview. "He's this black, gay gangster who only robs drug dealers, and then gives back," Obama exlains in the audio interview. "He's the toughest, baddest guy on this show, but he's gay, you know. And it's really interesting."

He's Gay --but not all limp wristed and stuff!

:puke:

He's gay,but he doesn't "act" gay,he's really cool!

BEGINNINGS: Hope & Healing for Families & Friends of a Gay Loved One
This one-day seminar focuses on topics impacting families and friends of a gay loved one. Whether you have known for years or just found out, this seminar would be beneficial to you. Session topics include Kayaking on the River Denial, Be Angry and Sin Not - Yeah Right!, My Depression is Making Me Depressed and others. Attendees will experience a fuller understanding of their role in the midst of a loved one's choices.

God's Intent for Sexuality
Why is homosexuality a sin? What's wrong with co-habitation? Is masturbation a sin? What is God's plan and design for sexual expression? The answer to these questions and more are addressed in this presentation. Great for adults and youth.

Homosexuality:
How Should the Church Respond?
This one-day seminar provides an overview of homosexuality including Ministry to the Homosexual Struggler, Ministry to Families and Friends of Gay Loved Ones, Starting a Ministry and other topics. We will look at five responses to homosexuality found in the Church today. Emphasis is given on the church's redemptive response.

Overcoming the Gay Identity
Healing happens! But how does it happen? What is involved in the healing process? What is the Gay Identity and how do we break free from its grip?

What Do You Say to Someone Who Is Gay?
Our society is so PC - Politically Correct. Yet is there a way to talk to gay people that is honoring to them and God? Yes! We can be CC or Christ Correct without dishonoring those who are gay.

http://www.metanoiaonline.org/speakersbureau.htm#three

Wait, I do...Obama is blantantly writing off the GLBT vote. It's clear he doesn't even slightly care about our vote. Period.

I thought the McClurkin thing might have been one incident...one "mistake". But this is a pattern...it shows a blatant disregard for GLBT Democrats.

Well, I said and still say that I'll vote for the Democratic nominee. But, goddammit, as a gay Democrat, this is disgusting.

:( :hug:
You're a better person than I.
I honestly can't say that I will vote for him regardless. I'm sorry, I just can't.

n/t

instead of DENOUNCING this horrible turn of events, YOU continue to TRY to spin it - AGAIN!

The gloves are off and WE will be on you obamabot homophobes like WHITE ON RICE...

FUCK YOU ALL!!!

There is never just one factor that causes a person to identify themselves as homosexual. Each person has a unique story and we must not stereotype! However, there are many common indicators that can serve as helpful tools in areas such as:

• Identifying people at risk.
• Ministering to those struggling with homosexuality; and
• Educating and changing perceptions of those who are not strugglers.

. . .

The need for a son to bond with the father never goes away. The male involved in homosexuality is often unknowingly trying to satisfy that need. A male lover can't provide it and therefore long term, monogamous relationships are rare. This is why a critical part of coming out of homosexuality is having healthy, male role models. If the father is not there to provide the support, we men who are brothers in Christ need to be! But we have to overcome our old stereotypes of homosexuality and false macho images.

Women coming out of homosexuality need to know there are "safe" men. They need healthy Christian father figures and friends. Families who befriend those struggling with homosexuality can provide a much-needed environment that reinforces the Christian family model.

I believe many marriages broken by homosexuality as well as children growing up thinking they are gay, could be saved if more churches were providing proper teaching in this area. I wish I had such training when Derek was young so I could have seen the warning signs. Maybe I would have been able to help him build his self confidence more and encouraged him more in the areas he excelled, instead of trying to make him fit my mold. I am now convinced we fathers need to find our sons' areas of interest and get interested ourselves, regardless of how uninteresting it may be to us at first.


http://www.metanoiaonline.org/fatherfigures.htm

"The need for a son to bond with the father never goes away. The male involved in homosexuality is often unknowingly trying to satisfy that need. A male lover can't provide it and therefore long term, monogamous relationships are rare. This is why a critical part of coming out of homosexuality is having healthy, male role models. If the father is not there to provide the support, we men who are brothers in Christ need to be! But we have to overcome our old stereotypes of homosexuality and false macho images."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! That old outdated BS!

It is clear now that children are affected by their out-of-home environment more than their home life. Peers have more sway than parents. This is obvious (for just one example) when you see that children of people who immigrate take on the accent of their new country's inhabitance, rather than the accent of their parents, when they speak. (Accents are established very early when 1st learning to speak)

It is therefore most likely that a father retreats from the son who is not up to his "standards" and the mother steps in to fill that void, rather than that lack of a big daddy somehow "making" the son gay. The gay thing comes 1st. The parents react, not the children.

Besides there are clear statistical, numerical indicators that some large component of homosexuality is genetic.

No one needs this 1950's male role model crap anymore, and anyone who believes this bunk should be dismissed.

Every time it happens. x(

I am seething with rage. and it is NOT "faux outrage from a Hillbot"

Otherwise, it will be met with complete indifference. Homophobia isn't such a big deal with some people around here.

Hillary's defense of Bill signing the DOMA... hmmm... What about don't ask don't tell? Hmm?

It's like the pot calling the kettle black here sometimes.

Hillary is not perfect. Obama is a Pandering Homophobe with NO Core Values. (In other words a REPUBLICAN)

It is "troubling" for the Obama campaign to have these slimy "ex-gay" assholes associated with his campaign. And not to get rid of them.

DOMA is bad. But it is NOT having people on your campaign saying that you are "sick" and need to be "cured". Not even close.

He didn't ask for this guy's support. The guy is supporting him because he chose to. I bet there's plenty of those people who support Hillary as well and it isn't making the news.

*sigh* I wish we'd just look at the candidate instead of his supporters sometimes.

We will always have some crazies in our party anyway. There's Democrats of all kinds, and even these kinds of cretins but they're in the Democratic Party. It's not a reason to slam Obama though.

and is in contact with them to campaign further for Obama.

Like he did with "ex-gay" Pastor McClurkin?

His mentor was Lieberman.

I´m for JRE by the way.

Unless you are prepared to star defending neo-nazis and the Klan, don't start playing little equivalency candidate pot-shot games with the gay "healing" movement.

I really do wish we'd just look at the candidate and not his supporters. Has he said he'll embrace the "gay-healing" movement? It's like you saying I embrace the smoking habit because my friends smoke, even though I absolutely abhor smoking. Obama's spoken to the Advocate and he's even got a "Obama Pride" on his website for goodness sake.

There's democrats of all sorts and we can't just disown a candidate because of two bad apples. Please.

Obama is a pandering disgrace.

The DOMA basically prevents gays from getting married. I wish I could contribute a question to her sometime. Maybe when she swings by Minnesota or something. I'd like to ask her if she would repeal the DOMA.

What would you think her answer would be?

Honestly.

DOMA had a veto-proof majority in both houses of Congress. The alternative, if Bill Clinton had not signed it, was a Constitutional Amendment. Repealing DOMA needs either a solid Dem majority in both Houses and a President who will push to reverse it--and that President sure as hell isn't going to be Barack McClurkin Obama--or a President who will appoint one or two solidly sympathetic SCOTUS justices to bring the thing down because it violates the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution. Getting rid of a Constitutional Amendment would be a lot harder, a lot slower, and a lot more complicated.

And the alternative to DADT was maintaining a full-out ban on gays in the military.

Alerted.

He's got Obama Pride on his website for goodness sake. http://pride.barackobama.com/page/content/lgbthome

If he was a homophobe... you wouldn't EVEN see that on his website.

I am absolutely disgusted with Hillary's supporters trying to paint Obama something he isn't.

and uses homophobes who actively seek out GLBT youth for mental reprogramming to win him votes.

So they go running to Hillary or something like that?

I didn't know that "Obama Pride" was pandering to homophobes... that's news to me. It looks very strangely like a pro-GLBT website to me.

If you support Obama AND GLBT people, TELL OBAMA not to associate any further with this man or his insidious organization.

Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.
Lie down with ex-gay pastors and talk sweet on Reagan, get up without my vote.

GLBT rights. He wants to win and is willing to use homophobes and homophobia to do it..... He can put whatever BS he wants on his website.... his website is nothing but a pile of lies and dreams and promises anyway. I will work for ANY Democratic candidate that can beat Obama.

gives a fuck about GLBT rights? What are her positions considering those rights? Hmm?

Considering her defense of DOMA and Don't Ask Don't Tell... why do you believe her? She could be making up shit too, she's a politician like Obama, of course.

I wonder what you will do when Obama becomes the nominee? Let me tell you, people do not like Hillary here in the UK. They really hope it's Obama. They want the people of the US vote for change. Hillary does not represent change, even though she could be the first female president. Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton for goodness sake!

I'm guessing that after all this maybe Edwards should be the nominee... there's so much shit being flung about from Obama's and Clinton's supporters that it's beginning to stink to high heaven.

I could say the same for her campaign tactics lately in NV. Can't believe you support such dirty politics, ugh.

or are you just a homophobe as well and defending his deplorable actions because you agree with him?

He's marched in pride parades and such. ONE homophobe and you seem to paint Obama and supporters homophobes.

That's quite a broad brush you have.

Try an entire line up of Evangelits,each one well known for rabid anti-gay statments. McClurkin, Hezi Walker, Sister Sister, the list is long and the only thing worse is the denial and spin of the boosters. One homophobe indeed. If you can not be honest, there is no hope.
Obama has called anti-gay bigots 'good, decent, moral people.'

I'll vote "present.":evilgrin:

if she knowingly had the Grand Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan involved in her campaign in South Carolina I would say that she's a racist.

If you think the KKK is an unreasonable analogy for these queer-curing ministries then you have no concept of the issue and might want to do less lecturing.

I was thinking the same thing.

Faux outrage! Faux outrage! Faux outrage!

How is this acceptable for Obama supporters? For months we have been seeking an apology for the McClurkin "mistake" and now THIS?!?!

give no quarter, give up not ONE INCH...

EITHER OBAMA AND HIS BOTS REPUDIATE THIS CRETIN IMMEDIATELY AND DON'T TRY TO SPIN IT EVEN ONCE, OR THE GLOVES ARE OFF....

well - we see they've made their decision...

WE WILL NEVER SUPPORT A HOMOPHOBE COME NOVEMBER - NEVER.

NO MORE BUSH!
NO MORE RAY-GUN!
NO MORE PANDERING...!!!!

Pity there's no alert function for that around here. :eyes:

also ALERTED by US...

sorry - no excuses this time around...

what the FUCK is obama and his bots thinking of!!!!

Really? Okay.

The post I was replying to was over the line in attacking supporters of another candidate simply because they support that candidate. My post didn't. And now you're attacking me for noting the above. Whatever.

As we all were in Amerikkka, and the truth is they don't care if homosexuality is ever mainstreamed and people finally get off our backs for our non-crime. How many of them think homosexuality is incongruent the precious fairy-tales they believe in and call their religion? Or whine that there's too many gays on TV, and any public display of homosexuality is shoving it down their throat? How many of them enjoyed making fun of the gay kids in school? How many of them still make fun of gays with their friends? Straights couldn't seem to get enough of Brokeback Mountain jokes, never mind that the story is a tragic tale of homophobia, and one of the saddest movies ever. But just an excuse for endless fag jokes for most straights. Obama is their hero, for stabbing the gay community in the back and getting away with it.

I stopped taking outrage from Hillary supporters seriously months ago.

Sorry, but outrage from folks with Hillary avatars gets roundfiled.

defend Obama no matter what..... I would NEVER do that for HIllary, nor any other candidate.
My outrage is real. And I am not alone. Obama should switch parties. This shit is real popular on the other side of the aisle.

if he's the nominee.

But that's okay --there aren't that many queers for it to matter -- right?

Don't worry --he'll be fine --and maybe I can finally get cured by Jesus and Government funding.

Edwards is still my favorite, but McClurkin bumped Hillary up to my 2nd spot, and I'm very happy she's positioned to be our nominee.

From the FAQ:
http://www.metanoiaonline.org/faq.htm

What is your success rate?
If you are referring to those who have left homosexuality to pursue sexual wholeness in their lives our BEGINNINGS program participants have an 85% - 90% success rate.

Is Metanoia Ministries just for those affected by homosexuality?
Our ministry is for everyone affected by sexual brokenness; this includes homosexuality, bisexuality, sexual addiction and other types of sexual brokenness among men, women and young adults. We also have programs that support family and friends of those who are suffering with sexual brokenness.

Is Metanoia Ministries affiliated with a particular denomination?
Metanoia Ministries is an inter-denominational ministry. We partner with many denominations and affiliations including: Assemblies of God, Baptist, Catholic, Foursquare, Lutheran, Ministers Fellowship International, Presbyterian and others.

I struggle with homosexuality. What can I do now?
First, know that you are not alone. There are others who have struggled with homosexuality. With the help of Christ and trusted others, they left homosexuality to pursue God's intent for their lives. You need a support group to help you understand why you are struggling this way. We recommend that you first get a copy of the book and CDs, BEGINNINGS: Healing the Wounded Soul (available in our online store). Second, you need a support group of people who will come along side you as you begin this journey. You will not be able to overcome this alone. Join a BEGINNINGS Group near you for support.

"I'm gay." Someone close to me told me they're gay. I don't know what to do.
When families and friends hear these words, the news can be devastating. A lot of emotions go through our minds - anger, denial, fear etc. Yet God is present with us. He heard the words "I'm gay" the same time you did. We recommend that you purchase BEGINNINGS: Hope & Healing for Families and Friends of a Gay Loved One book and CDs (available in our online store). Also, whether your loved one is going to seek help or not, you need support right now. You need others who understand what you are going through and can come along side of you. We invite you to join a BEGINNINGS group in your area.

K&R

this entire "ex-gay" idiocy. He needs to very clearly stand up for what is right and what is moral.

:rofl:

that sexual orientation was an innate trait. He stuttered through it.

In his book, Obama talks about this issue, and said that he was in favor of civil unions, but not gay marriage. But he phrased the whole issue in a "hate the sin, love the sinner" type of way. And then he meanders off into this pondering if maybe history will judge him for his position, if maybe it's wrong for him to feel this way, etc. The sense I got is of someone who isn't very comfortable w/gays or homosexuality, in spite of his desire to be "progressive" on the issue. Just my two cents.

I'd settle for Obama stating clearly that being Gay isn't a choice.

How about we get that out of him?

==Todd Hill, vice president of the Mid-Cities Democrats and a member of the Tarrant County Stonewall Democrats, a gay and transgender political group, said he isn’t concerned about Obama’s association with McClurkin. What matters to him is that Obama has said publicly that he doesn’t believe being gay is a choice.==

http://www.truthwinsout.org/news/dallas-protest-against-narth-a-big-success/

Right now all I seem to have is some guy named Todd says he did.

You don't think a gay rights leader (not just a guy named Todd) has done his homework?

Don't be drinking the haterade now.

The amount of involvement of people who are part of the "ex-gay" movement in his campaign demands that he make a STRONG statement that the "ex-gay" movement is horrendous, and soul-killing.

Otherwise, BG --he can count on my transexual ass sitting at home on election day if he becomes the nominee.

cuz I'm having a hard time thinking I'd EVER go and vote for him after this new revelation, barring a direct - "being gay is something you are born with and I don't believe you can change that" comment from the Senator AND his not using these leaders of these exgay groups on his campaign stage or advertising of any sort, that is. if he doesn't this gay boy in Otown ain't going to the tourist workers and asking them to support someone who sucks up to homophobic gay bashing 'Christian' groups.

what is PTL?

because we're mostly trans/gay/bi/lesbians, we know they cannot stop who God made us. I respect anyone who stands up for their right to be heard and, I like many GLBT people will not vote for someone that would have these types of false "compassionate Christians" on their political stage. That whole "Gospel Tour" Obama did was extremely embarrassing, he NEVER should have done that as a candidate for office - NEVER!

This Jewish trannie never heard PTL before ;)

All the candidates, I'm sure, can be linked to some homophobe or another in their campaign staffs (yes --even Kucinich), but damnit --I have to draw the line someplace.

Too many people are not getting how dangerous the "ex-gay" movement is.

"Jewish trannie" is so adorably cute. Yes, all the candidates have connections in some manner, and you just NAILED IT, you, me, us - have to draw the line somewhere - I draw it here. TOO MUCH OBAMA, IT'S JUST TOO MUCH!


The ex-gay movement I believe stole my beloved best-friend from me. I think they're abhorrent and agents of the devil, I do - they just don't know it. They bring sadness, self-hatred, and suicide.

SUPER BIG :hug: from the pudgy born-again gayboi

That's how it works, bucko. You don't get to claim shit, then ass-u-me a third-party/"some say" is good enough. It ain't, bubby.

YOU do YOUR fucking homework, and don't you come back to class 'til you've got some verifiable footnotes.

Here's some help:

Don't make up shit
'Less you can link to it

Repeat.

That support was not seemingly offered on the basis of this one issue only and every candidate has people supporting him or her with whom they disagree with on one or more important issue. But that is assuming that Obama makes his full view on this clearly known in opposition to that moral teaching. His association with this camp is otherwise becoming too close to ignore.

Not only once but twice now he's dissing the gay community. What's going to be his excuse now? Why he does allow bigots to speak on his behalf? Throwing a whole bunch of people under the bus to pander for votes from homophobes enrages me. This sucks big time.

:grr:

Anyone who wants to begin the "get over it" or "fake outrage" chanting circle might check out the good works of the Metanoia Ministries.

This shit kills people, including loved ones of a lot of folks on these boards, so please think before deriding the "faux" sadness caused by the (repeated) tacit acceptance of what this stuff causes

http://www.metanoiaonline.org

Code words for "you're sick and you need to be cured".

I can't begin to express how evil these people are. And how furious I am that a Democratic Presidential campaign seems to be tacitly condoning this stuff.

It is overt. You're right. But I don't find myself being gleeful about this. Just angry and hurt. I expect this crap from Mike Huckabee. But not from someone...who is one of my state's United States Senators, btw...who wraps himself in a mantle as a friend of the GLBT community. But actions, as they say, do speak louder than words. And man, those actions are screaming right now.

If Obama is the nominee, I will vote for him. But as a gay man and Democrat, this is a personal insult to me. And to GLBT people.

This shit does kill people, it destroys lives. I was never forced into an "ex-gay" thing but I heard so much preaching on this when I was still in the church, I was suicidal because God wouldn't "cure" me no matter how hard I prayed. When I took GED classes at Harvey Milk there was a trans Latina in my class who was living on the street because her parents threw her out for refusing to go to one of these brainwashing "ministries". If it wasn't for HM she'd have gotten into prostitution.

I am shaking with rage at this.

I'm no Hillary supporter, but...fuck Obama. Last straw. :puke:

:D

To paraphrase Muhammad Ali: "No houseplant ever called me 'diseased'."

I'd vote for a houseplant before I'd vote for Obama... for dogcatcher.

and so what?

that if Obama had known about McClurkin, he would not have allowed him on the stage.... I'll be waiting.

They all have The BAM and gays aren't welcome.

And frankly, the more I think about this crap...why SHOULD I give him my vote if he's the nominee? What the fuck...am I supposed to just sit back and accept this shit?

but what if the choice is between somebody who has voted against an constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and who says that he'll work to repeal DOMA, and somebody who actively supports an amendment to ban gay marriage and civil unions? If it's between somebody who sponsored a hate crimes bill that includes sexual orientation and someone who would vote against such a bill? If it is between someone who supports recognizing that committed gay couples are entitled to all the rights of marriage (even if he is hung up on the word "marriage") and someone who will work to deny those rights?

Even if the first one is disrespectful enough to use homophobic bigots to campaign for him, isn't he still better than the second?

I understand that you are sick of settling and won't support Obama in the primary. But if the general election sticks you with the choice of at least maintaining and maybe moving forward and definitely moving backward...

http://www.americablog.com/2008/01/obama-and-gays-again.html

Thppppffft to your canned outrage.

"Hello! LGBT Edwards supporters! My goodness, you all look smart today."

That's the last straw. :grr:

edit: too pissed to post!

:hug:

:crazy:

We don't want a Democrat, ANY Democrat to give them credibility.

Why can't OBama just denounce this entire ex-gay movement? It wouldn't take that much time and effort and it would heal a lot of wounds.

To say nothing of the fact that it is the RIGHT thing to do.

How many of these preachers can we dig up who have connections to Clinton?

BTW, who's to say he won't condemn this fella.

Take your filthy insinuations somewhere else.

to criticism as any of them. It's an election not an anointment.

When he does --he can have my support if he becomes the nominee.

Otherwise he can kiss my queer ass.

and I would be gladly speaking out against Clinton or Edwards if they got into a similar situation.

I fail to understand how this is so hard for some to understand.

:cry:

Your inability to empathize tells me more than you know.

You just don't get how insulting this is. I'm not an Obama hater. Hell, I voted for him for United States Senator. I'm a gay Democrat living in Chicago.

But you just don't get how evil these "ex-gay" types are. And how insulting it is for Obama's campaign to have these people in his campaign.

You just don't get it. And, damned if I can figure out how to explain it to you.

Or didn't you read the OP?

where did he say that? link?

He didn't, but his longtime connection to Tex Marrs, the holocaust denier, speaks volumes.

When did Bush say he'd overturn Roe v. Wade? He didn't. He said he wouldn't support Dred Scott-- which is code for Roe v. Wade in fundamentalist speak.

One-third of all teen suicides are LGBT. Over 40% of all homeless kids are LGBT. The ex-gay movement plays an enormous role in these statistics.

Promoting self-hate to kids is a vile act and any candidate who supports such abuse is partly responsible for their fate.

See post #91.

Since Hillary is the enemy, it is impossible for anyone who criticizes Obama to not be a Hillary agent, and all things must be defined in terms of either Barack or Hillary.

There can be no abstract morality, only some kind of floating transactional ethos. Thus, "Hillary did it" becomes a moral argument.

Excellent observation, K_and_H. Many thanks for your participation here, I appreciate your posts very much. :thumbsup:

To me, this is every bit as offensive as Trent Lott's remarks about Strom Thurmand. It's as bad as Don Imus.

If Obama doesn't condemn the ex-gay movement and/or "Metanoia Ministries" then he's complicit. Parse that out, why don't ya?

:eyes:

they're closing down, haven't you heard?

:)

Its more like gay haters unite with nobama

ooops

and it is JUSTIFIABLE HATERED now - YOU declared this war - WE will END it - but NOT to YOUR "liking" thats for sure...

:puke:

K&merceR

He has no attitude of gratitude to the party that he actually belongs to and that helped get him elected.

He is worse than Lieberman.

I know what I get. I get nervous.

That term, created by Obama, is incredibly telling. Not a Democrat, not a progressive, but a cause of one. And his idea of unity seems to involve co-oping some of the worst aspects of the GOP - homophobia, Reaganomics, & mixing religion with politics.

Where please?

“What I said was Ronald Reagan, back in the 1980s, was able to tap into the discontent of the American people,” Obama said. “There were Reagan Democrats. So what I said is we need to tap into the discontent of Republicans. I want some Obama Republicans. I want ‘Obamacans.’”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4135650

neoconservative.

I started to think the same thing last week.

It's making it hard to think about being forced to vote for him in the GE.

If he continues, he'll be to the right of Clinton, with his pandering to religious intolerance, religious conservatives, Independents, and Republicans. It's fine to try to bring people together, but not by tolerating their small mindedness.

and there is no way in hell he will getting my vote in the primary.

If this became a story he would gain votes by it. Win/win.

disgusting and SHAMEFUL...

For those who don't think this is big to US (Gay & Lesbian people and their friends), then you're wrong. Respect the vast majority of us who are deeply hurt and offended by this. I have MADE myself look beyond the McClurkin escapade on Obama's campaign stage - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dUp16hFzY8 - but to see he may have a man who RUNS an organization aimed at the attack on GLBT youth, not only be at the McClurkin event that we didn't know, but to do more campaigning for him - directly - that just totally TURNS ME OFF FROM VOTING FOR OBAMA EVER. He MUST rebuke this - or he's gonna lose an easy 75% or more of the gay & active gay supporters votes - we will just not vote - or will actively work for someone else that does not promote men to be heard, like Obama is doing, who attack the GLBT people - especially youths.


I am beside myself over this. Kiss the GE goodbye if he gets me and the activists against him. A lot of the people who I knew who worked for the Democrat last time were gay (GLBT) or extremely gay friendly.

I share the OP's disgust.

Like Hillary voting for Kyl-Lieberman, Obama has just demonstrated he has learned nothing. Some journalist needs to ask him publicly and officially if he believes in the goals of the "ex-gay" movement, because he sure seems intent on getting their support and hanging out with them.

and I'm very close to declaring that I couldn't support him in general. The ex-gay movement is, if not the worst you can get, pretty damn close. I have to think about this a little more, but I would be perfectly willing to leave my prez slot blank or go Green, and stfu about the general election on DU, as per the rules. You guys and gals are worth it.

The Human Rights Campaign all but begged Obama to drop McClurkin. And well....

Apparently, if the Obama campaign has any GLBT advisers, they are either not an important part of the campaign or their advice is being completely ignored.

I will NEVER vote for a candidate who garners votes by pandering to the gay bashers.

Ever.

Don't think so.

ignore-land beckons

Again, thanks for the empathy. Why don't you ask your guru to condemn ex-gay ministries -- specifically, Metanoia Ministries? Phphutttt! It'll never happen.

That a guy in charge of an ex-gay ministry is B*SH'S spiritual advisor who did the prayer for his inauguration??? Just saying.

I read a comment about the minister stating he was supporting Obama. I said that a candidate can not control, and has no responsibility, for whom decides to support him... as long as that supporter has not been actively recruited by the campaign.

This additional information suggests that there has been an active role (being on that tour in SC) - and thus it does become a reflection on the candidate. I won't make the mistake, again with this info.

I have just gotten so tired of pointless smears between the candidate supporter groups that I have gotten into the habit of sometimes trying to dismiss those OPs that fall into the pointless smear/rhetoric category. Had the other poster done the work as is in this OP, I wouldn't have read it as more of the same ole same ole candidate wars on DU. (I say that cause I am anti candidate wars (when they get to the point of the ridiculous) not because I am pro Obama - which I am not - nor am I pro any candidate at this point.)

If it weren't for my post this post might not have existed this evening.

:P

per barackobama.com:

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/07/30/obama_aide_holds_faith_forum.php

He was part of the "Faith Forum" Obama's campaign organized.

this election is so frickin depressing!

On the one hand we (as a party) have a great shot at 2008 - and at larger majorities in congress. And comparatively (dems vs repubs) that is a good thing.

On the other hand - the politics of pragmatism and politcal calculus have so deeply enwebbed (is that a word? it should be) the candidates that at this one point in time where some significant change in direction for the country - not on one issue but on may - is possible - the candidates are tied, no *have chosen to be tied* to serious constraints of this prejudiced, belligerent (war), and corporatist era.

So while I am glad to get this information - so that I do not defend the indefensible (due to lack of info) - it just adds to the mountain of weight on the shoulders not just from Obama - but from them all... feels like to quote a song out of context... "just another brick in the wall."

anyway. Had enough of that with GW.

"I have been in contact with the Obama campaign team," he said. "I will be making visits on his behalf."

That's a little more than just an endorsement that the candidate can't control.

the other item I read didn't include that information - I was trying to explain my response elsewhere - and why I was glad to get this info so I wouldn't say something so ignorant elsewhere - now that I have the info.

But thanks for judgeing me on part of what I posted - rather than on the point that I was glad to have the info that was contradictory (and instructive) and why I recognized my earlier mistake, because clearly this OP gave me the info that there IS candidate responsibility in this situation.

supporters, he is not fit to lead. Isn´t that what Obama has said of Edwards and Clinton? Obama could say, "no thank you".

will ever disavow the ex-gay religious leaders that he appears to be courting. I realize that he needs to come across as SuperChristian to combat the "Obama is a muslim" lies, but surely he could do the same thing without tying himself to people who do so much harm to GLBT Americans.

I might believe that one vile ex-gay homophobe is a mistake. Two vile ex-gay homophobes is a pattern.

Would President Obama support giving faith-based federal funding to groups like METANOIA? I'm not so sure anymore what he really believes.