About the booing of Hillary Clinton during the debate

Shame on the Obama fans in the audience for disgracing themselves and their candidate.
People are going to have to get used to hearing what isn't pleasant regardless of who is President.

n/t

Or if I did hear it, I must've blocked it out.

Link?

many Democrats do not appreciate other Democrats acting like Republicans. All candidates have been booed at Dem debates when they've stepped over the boundaries.

She was calling him on his record, which is what these debates are for.

"calling him on his record" and "spinning like a motherfucker."

vetted. That isn't spin--not at all.

Why can't you just acknowledge that this could potentially be a problem in his record?
He cannot beat these other two candidates over the head with their records when he has a history of not voting, voting present, or voting after the bill is already a done deal? This IS an issue whether or not you want to acknowledge it and quite frankly, the fact that many Obamites are trying SO hard to spin it away, shows that there is really a problem in this area.
Where there is smoke, there is fire.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html?_r=3&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

In more than 50 votes, he seemed to be acting in concert with other Democrats as part of a strategy...

In at least 45 instances, Mr. Obama voted with large numbers of fellow Democrats as part of the tactical skirmishing with Republicans over the budget.

Seven other times, he voted that way as part of a broad strategy devised by abortion rights advocates to counter anti-abortion bills.

Lisa Madigan, the Illinois attorney general who was in the Illinois Senate with Mr. Obama from 1998 through 2002, said she and Mr. Obama voted present on the anti-abortion bills.

“It’s just plain wrong to imply that voting present reflected a lack of leadership,” Ms. Madigan said. “In fact, it was the exact opposite.”

In other present votes, Mr. Obama, who also taught law at the University of Chicago while in the State Senate, said he had concerns about the constitutionality or effectiveness of some provisions.


http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/obama-abortion-.html

ABC News' Teddy Davis Reports: When Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., voted "present," rather than "yes" or "no" on a handful of controversial abortion votes in the Illinois state senate, he did so with the explicit support of the president and CEO of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.

"We at Planned Parenthood view those as leadership votes," Pam Sutherland, the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, told ABC News. "We worked with him specifically on his strategy. The Republicans were in control of the Illinois Senate at the time. They loved to hold votes on 'partial birth' and 'born alive'. They put these bills out all the time . . . because they wanted to pigeonhole Democrats."

I don't "acknowledge" it because I generally don't agree with politically-motivated lies.

As Karen notes in her post, the Clinton campaign responded with a call of their own in which they highlighted Obama's trend of "present" votes, while acknowledging that it was part of a Planned Parenthood strategy.

“Pam Sutherland was not lying,” said Gaye Bruhn, who headed up Illinois NOW at the time of the votes. “We did differ on that strategy. We talked about it. We still differ on it. And she knew that we lobbied against it.”

Ann Lewis, a Clinton campaign senior advisor said the issue is not just the seven abortion votes, but many of Obama’s 129 “present” votes that were disappointing to women. “Presidents don’t get to vote present,” Lewis said. The campaign pointed to Obama’s “present” votes on a bill that would’ve allowed victims of sexual assault the right to petition to have their records sealed, a measure that would’ve tightened parental fitness requirements for adoption and a bill that would’ve increased penalties for using a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school.

“When we think about electing a president, as women we need to think of someone who will stand up for these issues regardless of what it does to his or her electabiltiy,” Bruhn said.
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/01/obama_campai...

Nothing of my own in there.

You, on the other hand, are lying. It was not just "one vote."

(And if you're gonna talk about spin...I like how you left off how Gaye Bruhn is a huge Clinton supporter. Your other quote? From a Clinton staffer. Hm, we could trust Planned Parenthood and the Atty General of IL...or we could trust a Clinton staffer and a Clinton fundraiser. Tough choice.)

(I also like how you didn't bother getting the full link off whichever post you copy-pasted this from.)

at least not in the standard definition of multiple hundreds (200 or more). It was just barely over a hundred out of 4,000 total votes in the Illinois Senate, or roughly 3%.

Second, that one Planned Parenthood vote is actually very indicative of all the rest, in that voting present is a common time honored practice in the Illinois General Assembly for a variety of tactical reasons. It is sometimes used to indicate a partial or technical problem with a bill one might otherwise support, or to signal a desire for the governor to use an amendatory veto. It can also be used to provide cover for other legislators who may be in more competitive districts.

This can perhaps be difficult for someone who isn't from here to grasp immediately, but the Illinois General Assembly has its own unique practices and rules which are very different from Congress or other legislative bodies. This isn't spin; it's verifiable fact.

Hillary, on the other hand, knows all of this perfectly well, and has chosen to deliberately distort the meaning of these votes, blatantly insulting every single legislator who has ever served in the Illinois General Assembly, both Democrat and Republican, in a shameful effort to score cheap points on Obama. Her obfuscation on this point is inexcusable, and her continued mis-characterizations of Obama's record are quickly making her persona non grata here in her own home state.

I can't believe he stood up there and had the gaul to say what would happen if he hadn't shown up to vote - when he has a record like that one.

It disappoints me GREATLY that our political process takes our elected representatives on the road and away from their job. I believe (and if you do a search you will see that it isn't the first time that I said it), that IF a member of Congress wants to run for President, they should resign their seat because they cannot serve two masters.
If their political ambition is President, then they should relinquish their Congressional job to someone who is happy serving in Congress.
If they lose, they can always run for re-election.

With that being said, I don't excuse Edwards for it (and I didn't during the last election cycle either) and I don't excuse Obama for it.
However, at least Edwards voted when he WAS there...and didn't vote the politically safe "present".

vote "present," any more than I am impressed he did not vote "ham sandwich." You can't vote "present" in the Senate. You can vote yes, no, or abstain/skip.

Because not voting is the way they avoid taking a position on tough votes in Congress. He started missing lots of votes beginning Jan 2003 and they weren't all because he wasn't there to vote.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/e000286/votes/page7/

Shame on those Democrats for booing at ridiculous attacks. Don't they know that MLK, Jr. would have preferred they shut up and silently watch a minor injustice go unnoticed?

poor girl.

realize this was the 'friendly crowd'.

Ours is becoming an even uglier America.

Besides I don't think they were Obama Fans. I think they were SC fans and tired of the smear tactics by both sides. Beyond that these candidates (especially HRC) need to be fearful because she might win the ticket but she will probably have a hard time winning the GE. All of this has heated so many people. I know from my mom tonight she said that if BO or JE doesn't get it that she WONT vote for HRC. That she WILL vote for McCain. I know DU'ers will claim that she isn't a true Dem but my mom is an American. People like her are our American voters and many of these people who feel the same way as my mom do make up the Dem party. For many people they just HATE HRC. Now I've heard this from 2 women one white and one black (my mom) who have both said that they like McCain over HRC. The Dems better becareful is all I have to say.

permit anything ill to be said of him, someone has to get
some truth out.

Bringing up nonsense about slum lords and trying to distort Obama's votes.

Obama needs to address it...this is a good forum to do that.

Oh wait...

and just pull out a slip of paper and see which one to post next?

:eyes:

you're not calling for shame on hilary for all her lies and distortions regarding Obama?

How do you even know who was booing?

The issue is something that could post a headache for Obama and the Democratic party should he win the nomination. Rezko hasn't gone to trial yet and you just never know what accusations he may make (whether true or not).

Rezko is one person that the campaign denounced months ago. It's nothing compared to the truck load of corruption the Clintons bring with them.

She has every right to call him out on his present votes. It just proves that she doesn't understand how things work in Illinois (or rather - she wants to distort how things work to confuse voters). However, she used the opportunity to imply that he was somehow either afraid to stand up to or vote for various laws dealing with sexual crimes. She was basically implying that he was a pedophile / rapist supporter.

Yeah, that deserves to be booed. Even the Republican's would not be that low in a debate.

It would have almost been the equivalent (except not as bad) had Obama brought up Bill Clinton, his scandals and his affair(s). That is just the type of lowbrow politics that is going to get her in trouble. I guarantee what she said is going to come back and bite her.

I was confused about what comment got the boos.

Placed there to gain her sympathy :sarcasm:

been coaching you?

was the rezko slumlord hit. Very telling.

No wavers, no flinches, so stammers, no hesitating, she knew exactly what she wanted to say -- she was the Commander in Chief of the facts. Obama, who clearly at this point in his career, is no match on policy and facts flinched and resorted to a lower road attack (aka Walmart angle) and Hillary responded with awesome weight and without missing a step, slammed him with the Rezko remarks. He opened the door -- she closed it. His only defense was a magic wand ... and thus, Obama turned his 17-year relationship with Rezko into “five hours of work” for Rezko’s project.

Hillary has an uncanny sense of timing in these debates -- she knows she can take a hit and uses it to her advantage ...she waits for you to deliver a low blow and then POW!!!! Boom! Biff --- she's scary smart and tough as nails. She may not be somebody you want to have a beer with, but she is definitely someone you want to occupy the most powerful office in the world.

Don't get me wrong -- both Edwards and Obama are forces to be reckoned with -- each has his own endearing strengths. John Edwards earned a first class ticket to the convention with his progressive ideas. Obama is an inspiration to the youthful wing of the population. But let's face it -- America is a mess at home and abroad, and only formidable strength and competence in leadership will change the course. You don't have to like Hillary -- but one would be hard pressed to say they didn't respect her.

If I was a Republican candidate I would be very depressed today.

and that answer of 5 hrs work is already being ripped to shreds in the media. He lied bigtime and being called on it.

She lobbed a few empty grenades at Obama and should fully expect people to call on her on her bullshit.