Hillary is unfit for office, any office.

She didn't know that this resolution authorized military force against Iraq...

Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,


Either she is lying, or incredibly stupid. nuff said.

especially in light of his long-time friend going to trial next month for extortion and embezzlement.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4148877


The Clinton Fundraising Scandals

"In 1997, the pol, of course, was Bill Clinton and the tainted money came from folks such as John Huang, Charlie Trie, Johnny Chung and Pauline Kanchanalak. A decade later, it’s Hillary Rodham Clinton’s turn to write refund checks to deflect attention from a bundler named Norman Hsu."
http://wonkette.com/politics/suspicious-asians-dept\'/p...

And then there's Peter Paul, "a convicted felon and one-time donor to Clinton's 2000 Senate campaign"

http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/10...

and the Clintons weren't friends with these people for over 17 years nor did they help the Clintons purchase a rather large house for below the list price.

Oh, I forgot - she's a brilliant financier.

he tried to pin something nefarious on her and, after a Grand Jury and millions of tax-payer dollars, came up with absolutely zilch.

Try again.

than Martha Stewart....

or she paid off the right people.

of Hillraisers. Currently in prison. Much more to come, darlin'. And that's hardly the only dubious Clinton pal. Marc Rich.

Clintonians are a riot bringing up Rezco when Fitzgerald has cleared Obama. No one has cleared dear hill and bill over Hsu.

AND introduced him to Obama's largest donor and campaign finance helper--Mark Gorenberg.

You mean that Hsu?

edited to add a link and excerpt for you 'cause I know you love 'em:

Federal Election Commission records show that Hsu gave $5,000 to Obama's Hopefund PAC in connection with the fundraiser and that people publicly identified with Hsu and his companies gave an additional $19,500 to the PAC in 2005 and 2006.

Mark Gorenberg, who now sits on Obama's national finance committee and is one of his biggest fundraisers, said Hsu organized an early 2005 event for the Hopefund and invited him to help raise money.

"He introduced me to Barack Obama," Gorenberg said of Hsu. "He was working on an event for Barack's PAC, and he asked me to help, and I did. Barack came up to San Francisco, and introduced him to a bunch of people."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090703047.html

?

i'm switching my vote...going to vote for Mike Gravel!

:rofl:

Yeah, that's the "ticket"

:rofl:

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:yawn:

is she stupid or lying ?

She knew what she was doing! She's a frickin war criminal!

They need to make a choice.

Is she stupid or lying ? ...If her supporters don't think the GOP is gonna hammer her over this they are smoking crack

Your "choice" is deceptive and misleading; you are lying and misrepresenting the subject matter here, as noted in post #25.

Hillary Clinton is a smart woman with a lot going for her. But one thing she's lacking is political skills. And political skills are 90 percent of the battle (for better or worse). John McCain or Mitt Romney will crush Hillary Clinton in a general election, unless there is a viable third party candidate to split the vote as with Bill Clinton in '92.

Obama is a much more gifted politican. He is also much more inspiring than Hillary Clinton - and that means a lot (for better or worse).

I think Clinton or Edwards has a better shot at the White House than Hillary does. They are preaching to the converted now. Wait until the real race starts.

Even the Hillary haters here readily acknowledge her extensive political skills, that is what the Obama and Edwards camps rail against, the "Washington insider" stuff. Some says it is her only asset, and you come along claiming that she isn't at all?

Seriously, what a dumb thing to say.

Hillary comes across as calculating, insincere, and programmed to a significant percentage of the population. She blew health care reform back in the 90's in large part due to the fact that she didn't pull people from opposing sides into the process (aka "being a politican"). She is certainly intelligent and competent, but she is not an inspiring speaker or leader (that's "fairy tale" stuff to the Clintons).

I'm not going to report you for making an offensive comment. But you made one.

So your one of those people who equate pandering to "opposing sides" as being what counts as political expertise? :rofl: Clinton runs circles around Obama in the political arena. He can talk a good game, and pander to bigoted evangelicals when he needs to shore up support in Southern states, but that is hardly a winning or experienced strategy.

And if you post something dumb, then I'll call it dumb. Ain't the same as calling you dumb, so learn the difference.

I realize that we are supposed to be civil here toward our fellow Democrats, but it seems to me that Hillary Clinton's failures in leadership vastly outweigh any accomplishments. And speaking of accomplishments, what exactly are hers? I haven't been able to identify any significant ones myself.

in March which designated the Iranian Revolutionary Guards a "terrorist organization". The Kyle/Lieberman vote -- which Obama conveniently missed (guess he couldn't vote Present) -- was in September.

As for Hillary's accomplishments, I suggest you do a cursory search. Wikipedia might be a good place to start.

Can you point out where the Guard is called a terrorist org. ?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-970

(8) The Secretary of State should designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guards as a Foreign Terrorist Organization under section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1189) and the Secretary of the Treasury should place the Iranian Revolutionary Guards on the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists under Executive Order 13224 (66 Fed. Reg. 186; relating to blocking property and prohibiting transactions with persons who commit, threaten to commit, or support terrorism).

...

did you even read this thing?

That you can't name a single accomplishment by Hillary Clinton in your post says a lot, doesn't it? In all seriousness, identify something she has done that has added positive significant and lasting value.

here you go:

Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House years:

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

...

okay?

When she authorized George W. Bush to use military force against Iraq back in 2002, I don't recall her saying anything about the link between depleted uranium munitions and Gulf War Syndrome. As a matter of fact the war she authorized ended up dumping thousands of tons of DU onto Iraq and our soldiers over there. Once again, political expediency trumps conviction for Hillary Clinton.

Good for her for pushing for teacher testing and classroom size in Arkansas. That's great. On the little things, she gets high marks with me. It's the big, honking stuff that she gets so wrong that convinces me that she is not what we need right now.

The Gulf War Syndrome connection is interesting because it was something that wasn't being taken seriously at the time even though it was becoming obvious that something was seriously wrong. Had it not been for her strong support and dogged determination in the face of derision and "oh, there's nothing wrong", I don't know that it would have gotten the necessary attention -- as well as the medical attention -- it so desperately needed.

Although I wouldn't necessarily consider teacher testing, classroom size and health care for poor communities (without affecting Doctor's fees) "little things" -- although that was one you didn't list under "little things" --, I do appreciate you responding.

I agree that classroom size and standards aren't little things either.

To tell you the truth, I don't know what to make of any of the candidates. The problems seem so vast and I don't watch enough TV to see them in action - I only read about them. I'm really, really concerned that we're falling into the same old trap as Democrats with Hillary - an over-programmed candidate who doesn't inspire. We saw it with Kerry and Gore as well. Bill Clinton was calculated but his political skills are so great that he didn't come across that way.

I think that we're ready for greater changes beyond the triangulation of the Clinton years. I want universal health care. I want a fair tax code. I want a national energy policy that promotes renewable energy. Who's the answer? Hell if I know.

It's a piece of it. And by no means the largest piece.

as that of the policies of the "illustrious" DLC who has SELECTED the past two of our non-Clintonian Candidates.

We must deny "The DLC" absolute control of our party which has been pushed "to the right" beginning with the first Clinton Presidency.

The Clintonian DLC must be stopped - stop it now by not electing HRC?

Don't let the term "progressive" or "liberalism" on their web site fool you - it means "corporations first and always" to the Clintonian DLC.

Just read what Bill and Hill's DLC stands for and tell me it's NOT Republican lite? :thumbsdown:

http://www.dlc.org/

It would appear that they do not share your assessment.

Is she stupid or lying ?

I assume she was for NAFTA and the WTO too.

The resolution directed the President to "obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion, and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions", as well as authorizing the military to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq."

The President was to act within the context, and confines of, the United Nations in pursuing actions against Iraq. As we all know now, he either (at best) paid brief lip service to the UN, or (at worst) deliberately circumvented the UN when they balked. Certainly I'd say now that the Senate was gullible in believing this hayseed of a President was actually going to follow the spirit of the resolution, but to label Clinton's remarks as "lying" and "incredibly stupid" is disingenuous and remarkably naive.

"as well as authorizing the military to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq;"

Nice try.

Seems like you don't understand how they work, so let's try again.



Defend the US from Iraq, while enforcing the UN decisions regarding Iraq. One was not supposed to go without the other, but that is precisely what Bush did. Like I said, blame Hillary and the others for being gullible for thinking this president would honor what they intended, but don't label the resolution itself as an explicit authorization/declaration of war, nor attack Hillary's defense of it as such.

You are wrong, plain and simple. And are now being rather deceitful in this continued defense of the indefensible.

And if so...did the aumf at least make it easier for him to do so?

So vote for the best of the worst.

No one can discuss anything with the people who 'think' like the above posters who are slamming Hillary. First the poster does not have facts. Second he/she is not interested in facts. Third, if someone presents facts, he/she twists them like a pretzel.
Forget trying to set things right. This type of person has one purpose and it's to let off hate steam. I guess we should be glad he or she is only doing it at their keyboard instead of on the street or in the schools.

Hillary Clinton is a patriotic American who has spent her time since college trying to make life better for others. She probably would have been president before this if she hadn't married Bill Clinton. She's not perfect, but she's damn smart and she has integrity. She could lead us out of this ridiculous black hole we dropped into with the Republican President and Majority.

During the Bill Clinton Presidency Hillary was investigated more than any single American has ever been investigated by the neocons, who did not have America's best interest at heart. They found nothing. Nothing. She was insulted and lied about by these jerks. Our precious tax money was used to try to dirty her and after reading some of the stupid posts on this board, I'd say they were successful to a point.
Why would they do that? Well number one, she's an uppity woman. She won't sit back and she won't sit down. She'll lead the way. She might take a wrong turn now and then, but she's not the Goddess, she's only human.
Why don't you mean mouths say something that would make me want to vote for your candidate? Whichever Republican it is.

and be done with it.

This place is a fucking joke.

Gotta get back to work. I get banned from DU every once in a while and that seems to make me more efficient.

Do you honestly think that people who oppose Hillary Clinton for the nomination are all "neocons" and "mean mouths?"

Back in 2002, I protested in the streets against the Iraq War that she authorized. Hillary said that she didn't have "enough information" at the time not to doubt that there were WMDs in Iraq. Funny, but between Hans Blix and Scott Ritter and the State Department it seemed crystal clear to ME that invading Iraq would be foolhardy and counterproductive.

There is one reason that she voted to authorize Bush's invasion of Iraq: She wanted to run for president and thought it would be politically expedient to do so.

Last year, when she voted to call a wing of the Iranian military a terrorist organization, Hillary proved herself to be as much of a Neocon as any other Democratic lawmaker today.

Bill Clinton deregulated the mortgage industry by repealing New Deal legislation that kept the banks in line. Look where we are today with that. Bill Clinton pushed through loopholes allowing SUVs to pollute more. Look where we are with emissions.

We don't need more of the same any more.

When was Hillary president?

Former President Clinton stands to reap around $20 million -- and will sever a politically sensitive partnership tie to Dubai -- by ending his high-profile business relationship with the investment firm of billionaire friend Ron Burkle.

Mr. Clinton is negotiating to end his relationship with Mr. Burkle's Yucaipa Cos. as part of a broader effort to protect the presidential campaign of his wife, Sen. Hillary Clinton, from potential conflicts of interest. Details of Mr. Clinton's involvement in Yucaipa and his efforts to unwind it come from documents and interviews with people familiar with the matter

The former president has had links to Yucaipa since early 2002, when Mr. Burkle -- a longtime friend and political contributor -- offered him a role there.

Mr. Clinton's association with the firm began at a time when he was looking to earn large amounts of money, partly to pay heavy legal bills accumulated to defend himself and Mrs. Clinton from several investigations during his presidency.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120097424021905843.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

freeperville....see ya!

tight against your ears as you scream freeper trolls. Because if you don't, you might accidentally hear that - surprise! - HRC voted to authorize the Iraq war. And supports Bush's hardline course on Iran. And the way she defends her vote to this day can only mean she's either lying or stupid. And we know (even those of us who think she's a corporate-sponsored warmonger) that she is not stupid.

But you don't want to hear that, you know, accidentally.

who is fit. Many disagree with you.