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sunonmars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:05 PM
Original message
The End of the Obama Revolution
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,530129,00.html

The End of the Obama Revolution

Very interesting article

The euphoria is gone, the friendly fire has started: Barack Obama is suddenly looking less like a superstar and more like just another candidate. His message isn't hitting home with the three most important groups of voters: women, older Americans and blue-collar workers.

........etc

All it takes to understand Clinton's appeal is to observe the way people react when she speaks with voters in small groups, as she recently did in a lecture hall on the campus of the University of Nevada. Hardly any college students were in the audience, but about 100 middle-aged women, some of whom had even dragged along their husbands, sat around the candidate on folding chairs.

Clinton told her audience about the hard work waiting for her in the White House, about responsibility and about her view of herself as a problem-solver. No one cheered, no one jumped up from her seat and there were no choruses of approval. But the women nodded quietly in response to Clinton's words. They didn't seem fired up, but they did feel understood.

Watching the group, I realized that perhaps this election isn't about visions at all, but about something even bigger: trust.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Middle aged women dragging their husbands.
Hoo boy :eyes:

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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Yeah to hell with them old broads!
:sarcasm:
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Whoa, Whoa, Whoa... I'm One Of Those Women... One Year Older
almost to the day than Clinton! MY VERY LAST CHOICE!! I WILL NEVER vote for her!

It's John Edwards, and NOBODY else! This old "broad" ain't STUPID!!

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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. Talk to the previous poster not me.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. This Gen Xer sure wishes they'd start voting smarter.
Going for the triangulating, warmongering, corporatist, racebaiting, smear merchant because she has a vagina doesn't make them good role models for me right now.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. This gen-xer isn't into Obama...no matter how nice of a guy he seems.
I wish people would stop generalizing!!
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Neither am I. There's another candidate in the race ya know.
I also know plenty of older women who can't stand Hillary. They're the ones that pay attention and do their homework.
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Dante_ Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Hillary has new web video using Obama's words against him
Poor Barak, he's going to lose the battle of the words. He will trip himself up because he is starting to believe his own spin
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Too bad that Germans won't be voting in our election....n/t
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Karl Marx Was German
I don't think his influence was confined to Germany...
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. How often do you read that site?
Daily?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. LOL! what the heck?
Are you actually drawing a comparison between Marx and an article in Der Spiegel? This article will have no influence on the election here and neither will Germany. Whether or not the observations of the writer are accurate or not, is another story.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Karl Marx Wrote For The New York Herald Tribune
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:23 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
You don't have to be an American to have an insight into American politics...
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Not only that but whomever
wrote this article doesn't have a fucking clue.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. If they were, Obama would win.
They love him there.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. But, we have morphed into what was termed "The Good Germans" of the 1930s
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. "trust" - exactly!
I've been saying that all along.

They're all politicians... they all have their blemishes and mistakes and what have you... it all boils down to this:

Which candidate do you trust to do the best job once elected?
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think the election is about empty buzzwords, packaging, and a jr. high level popularity contest
and we need as many threads as our bandwidth can handle about just those things.

I'm glad to see some Germans are as retarded as our press.
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Tropics_Dude83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Americans love dynasties
Americans love dynasties. Kennedy, Bush and now Clinton. This race is so over.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. To hell with dynasties. We broke with the UK to rid ourselves of "the royal elites"
It's NOT over ... well unless we SURRENDER and CHOOSE to be sheep? :patriot:
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Tropics_Dude83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I want to have hope but...
Clinton now leads in 12 after leading just by 4 in Rasmussen's tracking poll on Sunday. And remember the Clintons have never ever lost any political campaign that they have ever fought directly involving them.
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Dante_ Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Dynasties? hahahahahahaha, two Bushes get elected 12 years apart and you call...
..it a dynasty?

and then only ONE CLINTON was President and you call that a dynasty?

OMFG, call the hysteria police....the sky is falling.

One Clinton and two Bushs equals Dynasty and Dynasty?
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Dante_ Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Clinton Dynasty? Don't you need more than one to be elected to have a dynasty?
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 01:22 PM by Dante_
Three Bushes in politics (oops 4...grand dad ages ago) equals a dynasty?

We had one Kennedy as President and a few more in other offices. How many Clintons have we elected...two?

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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. always has been
always will be.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. Man...you nailed...
"I'm glad to see some Germans are as retarded as our press."

I wish I could have said that! }(
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. As much as people talk about change,
in reality, Americans hate change. Look at how they have voted in the past.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. Excellent article; perfect assessment !
"The Thrill is gone", as BB King sings it.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Perfect in a parallel universe where everything spins positively Clintonian.
Otherwise it's just "wishful thinking."

Americans fought to break from UK royalty.

Fuck Dynasty!
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. kids against their parents and grandparents
Those of us who'll be paying for their retirement vs. those who will be collecting the checks.

Those of us who'll be fighting the wars vs. those who will be watching them on tv.

Those of us who'll be trying to afford to buy a house vs. those who refuse to build more housing in their neighborhood.

I hate divisions like this.

I appreciate what the generations before me have done, tried to do, and accomplished, but my generation faces a hell of a lot of challenges and we'd appreciate it if we weren't left out of the discussion.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. Might be getting
the Huckabee treatment. Trying to fire up and rise above the fray is being dealt with toughly by rivals in both parties. And it works.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
27. Excellent article...
Along with older women and Hispanics/Latinos, Obama also fails to enthrall the LGBTQ community. Perhaps he should not have thrown that group under the bus in favor of the anti~gay vote.

:kick: and recommend
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
31. You can still have the Obama Revolution while you slam back at the Clintons
Part of any revolution is getting rid of the old, tired, corrupt, scandal-ridden past.

We're on it. Don't worry.

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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
32. Reality check: progressive groups give Hillary very high ratings. Are they all stupid?
The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
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