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And what if the Karl Rove virus does cross the GOP/DEM barrier?

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:49 PM
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And what if the Karl Rove virus does cross the GOP/DEM barrier?
http://lessig.org/blog/2008/01/and_what_if_the_karl_rove_viru.html

And what if the Karl Rove virus does cross the GOP/DEM barrier?

January 22, 2008 3:55 PM


Watching the debate last night, I wondered what happens when we become as bad as they. (WE=Dems; THEY=Karl Rove GOP). For there was a cheapness and dishonesty in the exchange last night that I haven't quite recognized before. Why I hadn't registered this before is an obvious question -- for of course, cheapness and dishonesty in presidential politics has been with us for a long time. But I recognized something about it last night I hadn't recognized before.

Let's start with the disappointment: Debates are not Obama's forte. If he were running for Prime Minister, I'd have second thoughts. I can't understand why he isn't better prepared for the obvious exchange that was going to happen. It took way too long to get to (w/r/t the Reagan absurdity): "I obviously don't agree with his ideas and never said I did, and indeed, I worked against them." It took way too long to get to (w/r/t the "present vote" issue): "In the US Senate, voting present would be bad Senatoring. In the Illinois Senate, it is how the system works. My 180 votes out of 4000 is just the same as ...." And w/r/t health care, he never got to "my plan IS universal because it is made available, in an affordable way, to everyone. I just don't believe in fining poor people. I believe in helping them." Again and again, the echo of Obama's message was "it's legitimate for us to disagree about ..." What good is that line doing -- especially given the completely illegitimate charges raised against him by HRC? Someone has go sit him down and force him to spit back 10 second responses to these questions. It isn't rocket science. It is practice and training.

But disappointment is one thing; (this word sounds too harsh, I know, but) disgust is something else. For there was a basic lack of integrity in the Clinton show last night. As a former friend of Clinton put it to me last night, "I now understand just why people hated the Clintons so."

For example: The absurdity about the Reagan comments (and slowly the press is coming around to the recognizing the absurdity in the comments, at least if you believe the Obama survey of the sources).

First, when I heard about this, it struck me as a perfect example of the generation gap that is this campaign. The ridiculousness of people who think they need to continue to attack Ronald Reagan is simply a reflection of a different generation. For anyone under 50, it is obvious Reagan is a towering figure. And for people over 50 who would reflect upon the matter for a second, it should be obvious that Reagan transformed how politics and government is considered. Reagan's was obviously a transformational presidency, in exactly the ways Clinton's was not. Those of us who worked to elect Clinton hoped he would be the Dem's Reagan. But it wasn't a month into his administration when he signaled as clearly as he could that transformation based on principle was not his game (remember selling out the gays in the military issue? Reagan would never have done the equivalent).

So Obama said the obvious (that Reagan's administration was transformational). And he also said that the GOP pushed a set of ideas in the 1980s that quickly captured many Dems (including, let's not forget, Clinton (see, e.g., welfare reform)). That too was obvious. But just as it's obvious to anyone with integrity that when Time names Putin as "Person of the Year" (or Hitler for that matter), Time is not endorsing the positions of Putin or Hitler, so too is it obvious (to anyone with integrity) that Obama was not endorsing Reaganomics. (Krugman, in my view, has that integrity. But he's just gone off the deep end here. There's no myth about the success of "voodoo economics" (as Bush the First put it) to be debunked). Indeed, as Obama pointed out in the most flashy line of the debate, he was on the streets of Chicago organizing against Reaganomics. His statement about "ideas" was simply identifying the kind of leadership he wanted his presidency to aspire to. That's precisely the leadership I want a president to aspire to too.

Yet HRC repeated the slander that Obama was endorsing or recommending those policies. I understand the political gain from creating that impression in people. But someone who does that in that way betrays a basic lack of integrity.


snip//

We've heard this about the Clintons from the start: they would do anything. But watching her utter words she knows are false, or words which even if technically true, create a plainly false impression, was, again, disgusting. Just how small is this person now apparently leading the Democrats? Just how small have we become?

Now of course I am totally open to the charge of naivete. But I don't think it just naivete. When you think about all the virtues that Obama plainly has over HRC -- indeed, in some ways, the Reaganesque ability to inspire, set a vision, speak across divides, etc. -- this cheapness feels different. The loss seems greater. Bush was small and deeply unethical when he allowed Karl Rove to destroy McCain in 2000 in South Carolina with totally false rumors. Many Republicans rightly thought the better man had been defeated by that dishonesty. We are soon to be in the same place with our nominee unless some measure of integrity surfaces in this campaign.

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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think so. Obama Virtue?
He has been promoting getting along with the repuks since he started this campaign. Running for office is very difficult and he has not shied away from unfairly blasting Hillary. If your going to dish it out you have to take it. He is not ready for Prime Time. He thinks that the republicans can be won over, he is nuts.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I don't agree with you. I think he has the right idea; we need to try and
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 06:49 PM by babylonsister
sway as many people to join our party as possible. For a change, we can all be Americans instead of this insidious divide we've had to deal with for years. Clinton is polarizing; she gets the nom, the chances are slimmer a Dem wins in November. Think about it. And how do you know he's not ready for prime time? Why do you think she is? I can hear her getting frustrated and going off on some leader who won't take kindly to her shitty disposition which shows up when she's challenged. Or maybe she'll just turn on the tears. :eyes:





http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/0...

snip//


What I do want to focus on, though, is how important it is, when you talked about taking on the Republicans, how important it is I think to redraw the political map in this country. ... the truth is that we as Democrats have not had a working majority in a very long time. And what I mean by that is a working majority that could push through the kinds of bold initiatives that all of us have proposed. And one of the reasons that I am running for president is because I believe that I can inspire new people to get involved in the process, that I can reach out to independents and, yes, some Republicans who have also lost trust in their government and want to see something new.

When you look at Bush and Cheney and their record, the one good thing they've done for us is they have given their party a very bad name. That gives us a unique opportunity in this election, and what we can't do, I think, is just to take the playing field as a given. We want to expand the scope of the electorate so that we can start getting a 60 percent majority, more folks in the House, more folks in the Senate, and I think that's something I can do.


In other words, Obama is not reaching out to conservatives just to get along with them. He's reaching out to conservatives because he thinks it offers the best chance to enact liberal policies.
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