I am so sick of these two people-

I am so fucking sick of you people. I’m sick of you and you. And you know who you are, Hillary and Obama. I can’t come to GDP at all anymore without the first ten or so threads being all about Hillary and Obama, and how much they hate each other. He said this, she said that, I’m a girl, I’m black, you’re not a girl, you’re not black, just who is black, who said, she said you said that they said, what I meant to say, the press said, no one said, I didn’t know he was going to say, but what you didn’t you say was… MY FUCKING EYES ARE BLEEDING.

Me, you, you me it’s all about us. Right?

It’s bad enough I have to put up with this crap from these two mega-egos, but it’s all I see here, and it’s all I see in the MSM. I am so fed up with this that I’m ready to kick something, and I don’t have a dog.

And all you people do, is repeat the same shit that MSM repeats. It’s a fucking echo chamber in here.

Are you having fun yet? Are we just getting warmed up here?

Thirty-seven million Americans live in poverty, just barley hanging on. More than a few of those will go to bed hungry, and wake up hungry. How many are children?

Isn’t that funny? Are we having a good time yet?

200,000 homeless vets are looking for a place to call home. Too bad they’re not getting warmed up tonight. How many of you have ever had to sleep on the street? How many of you have served your country, right or wrong?

Tonight, right this very minute, there’s a mom or a dad out there, who is making the decision that his or her child isn’t quite sick enough yet to go to the emergency room. They are part of the 47 million people in America without health insurance. But hey, we don’t need to care about them because Obama had some guy singing who isn’t right with GLBT issues.

Now we’re having a good time.

Our economy is in a free fall like most of us have never seen before, but why bother with that when Bill Clinton is out there flapping his mouth again? How many families lost their homes today? Who cares right? Look, Hillary is triangulating.

This is great! I’m having fun, aren’t you?

We are occupying another country, and our men and women in uniform are still dying, and being wounded every single day. But hey everyone, look! There’s another fight on the playground.

Can you hear it? Sounds like someone, somewhere, is playing a fiddle.

We continue to be led around by the nose, while MSM, and all it’s corporate fat cat daddies hold the chain. We’ve gotten so used to the feel of that chain in our nose, that we don’t even feel it anymore. Horse, meet bit. But don’t think about that, because Barack said something that made Bill Clinton mad. Oh yeah, and Hillary is wearing a yellow pantsuit.

Now, this is fun. What’s the name of that damn song?

I don’t care about any of this stuff, and I’m sorry for you if you do. It means they are winning you know. It means they got us confused, and they’re leading us into the penn, and that’s right where they want us. How bout, at least here, we move beyond that.

I’ll look at Hillary, and listen to you, if you tell me what she plans to do for the American People. I’ll be all ears, all day if you post Obama’s plan for the homeless vets. I want to know what in the hell these candidates plan to do, I don’t care about these stupid, slight of hand, spats. Seriously, can’t you feel the distraction? It’s that itch between your shoulder blades when you’re walking away. It’s at the base of your soul man. You, me, and everyone we know, we’re all being led and lied to.

Are we warmed up yet? Yeah, I can smell the fire; it’s the smell of freedom burning.
And I think I know the song.

Let’s talk about a plan for America. Let’s talk about the people these people say they want to serve. Let’s move above the trivial, and the gossip, and the crap. It’s no secret who I support, and I’ll talk issues with you all day on John Edwards. Let’s talk some issues about your candidate.

Anyone doubts what I’m saying, please consider this- Every time Britney appears in court, there are 300 reporters there, from all over the world, to cover it.

Oh yeah, this was the song.Thank you lame54!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZxOYF9ZAe0

Damn media is just distracting us.

And welcome to DU :hi: muyojoe.

I was you 101st recommendation.

I woke up this morning angry...very angry. The OP has summed up my feelings perfectly. I'm glad that I perused the forum before posting because I couldn't have said this as well and it echos my sentiments exactly.

I am disgusted!

I think that tells the story, how in the world could someone spend 10 million dollars in one state unless the corporates of the nation weren,trying to buy them

To day I picked up my meds, last year I didn't have a decutable, to day I was told that my ded. would be 260 dollars, now isn't that the corporate world doing any thing they want under the Republicans, I was angry and told them I couldn't wait to mark my ticket for JOHN EDWARDS.

I don't have any type of coverage at all, so I'd better not get sick or hurt, ESPECIALLY 'cause I'm self-employed.

Good luck to us all, eh?

GO EDWARDS!!! Give us a voice!!!

Last year I didn't have deductible either on prescriptions, and now I have a $2000 deductible!

commodities we have become... I know what you mean.

them by the time its done. What is this now? Nearly three years?!?

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Not that you'd know what that looked like.

that you can't tell the difference between righteous and self-righteous. Not my fault if you take that personally.

--For the valid point it makes about the media's inane fixation on the petty interpersonal disputes in politics, which stoked into fires by the infotainment industry then override and devour the honest policy discussion lying beneath-- here in the comment thread, it's become an example of itself. Thread upon thread of messages, screenview upon screenview, and half of it amounts to bickering back and forth among people who probably agree on almost everything, trying to determine who insulted who first and who misconstrued the other's meaning.
I don't point this out to point a finger. Maybe it's an inevitable part of the process. What fascinates me is the extent to which personality determines political choice, and how it feeds and detracts from conflict, agreement, progress and stagnation. I don't think this is off-topic; I think it's at the center of this issue. Some friends and I have begun a discussion about the role personality plays in politics at a site called Know Me Now, and I'm going to point to this thread over there. No one's posted an Edwards thread there yet. I'm curious to see what happens if some people from this thread join that discussion.

just wondering why you responded like you did.

born stupid, or work hard at it?

for people who disagree with your subject matter, the angle of attack, the attitude displayed therein, etc. You are opening yourself up to criticism. Making a post that declares that you are sick of our top two "mega ego" candidates and that they don't discuss the important issues the way YOUR speshul candidate does is just begging for a strong response by the other candidates' supporters--unless we're all hoping for pointless unchallenged circle jerk love-ins here, in which case, don't mind me--carry on. But when another commenter responded to me, he did so in a way that implied that he was sorta familiar with my habits, so I remarked on it.

Just having a lil fun at your expense : ) Anyway, take care.

:spray:

:rofl:

Edwards to be the phony he is, which is why he's only netting between 4 and 12 percent in every state. I wouldn't let it get to you.

I don't see a need to single out Edwards on that

:eyes:

fault that they get more media attention and have to engage each other in vicious hand-to-hand combat--one of them is going to win the nom and thus probably the Presidency, and the stakes are very high for them. Barring something terrible, Edwards is not going to be the nominee. If Edwards was number two in the polls and won something, he and Hillary would be trading the barbs in just the same way--what would all the Edwards supporters think then?

Turn the questions and leads back at the media and get to an issue. They don't "have to" participate in this petty fighting. Just get to the issues and tell us what you are going to do. They don't seem that interested in doing it, neither does the media. It doesn't matter who's number 1, 2, 3, or 4. Just talk about what your plan is going to be.

Kucinich and Gravel get no voice with this media. Edwards is getting nothing because the media likes the infotainment value of this stupid race. What would be nice would be if they would all insist on inclusion in the debates AND insist on sticking to the issues.

This fighting is just dumb.

Phony is a right wing talking point. You've been watching too much Faux Noise. So what about the issues I asked about, do you have anything on that?

You replied by ignoring that request and making an ad hominem attack.

Don't you see how you bolstered the OP's point?

Un-freakin'-believable. It's almost as if the Clinton and Obama supporters are (dare I say it) AFRAID to discuss the issues because they know their candidates are on the wrong side of them.

is a lot of people lack reading comprehension.

How some people made it out of High School, if they even managed that, is amazing.

Just carbon copies of the blather that's perpetuated on the MSM. John hit it RIGHT ON THE HEAD the other night. He said: It's not ABOUT US! It's about the issues this country faces! But of course, the MSM is a tendril of the cause of the issues we face so they're gonna play up the American Idol aspect of this race and conveniently IGNORE the issues facet of it.
I've heard nada about the issues from the celebrity duo except vague generalities. There's "hope" and the notion that an "old dawg" can step away from the inside-the-beltway tredmill and produce "change". Boy, is that ever promising. :p

what the poster is talking about... THEN CARRY ON!!

As I quote once again, from a SONG I feel says a great deal.... "They sell us our Presidents the same way they sell are clothes and our cars!'

This is a real FACTOR in the U.S., but NOT AN ADMIRABLE one. I agree with the poster, but if you want to inject or spew the same stuff over and over again... then don't complain when something "does" creep up on you" and bites you in the ass. Guess it's YOUR ass, but some of us might feel the aftermath!

That's was so unsavory about all the crap that gets thrown around. Others will pay for some BIG mistakes, and we would prefer fighting the ACTUAL people who are screwing us.

...a response that was substantive, then I could see how your justification could apply.

Unfortunately, what you wrote was a personal attack on the original author that had nothing to do with the current issues that our nation faces.

So in essence, your post became a part of the cacophony of bickering that is eroding the discourse on DU.

I'm just saying...

at least in so far as i read your post, and in that post it is clear that, in fact, you do not know the difference between righteous and self-righteous.

please feel free to take it personally if you are so determined, because it does address the idiocy of your post. and by the way, wienerdog (!), how personal do you think 'smug and self-righteous' is. those, you will recall, were your words.

At least you were accused of only not knowing the difference between legitimate outrage and self-righteousness, ie you were not called self-righteous or smug.

I will call your post - not you but your post - sophomoric and irrelevant and a good example of how the Democratic party follows idols more than using their heads.

feel sorry for John--he is the underdog. This is a very pro-Edwards board in general, in tone. However, both Hillary and Obama supporters get insulted and/or demonized here on a daily basis, and it's true, we can get obnoxious--but I find the "St. John is pure, St. John is above it all, St. John deserves the attention they are getting more than they do, only St. John talks issues and cares about poor people, St. John isn't corporate like those other two" a bit wearying, and I will call bullshit on such posts. So, yes, I find many Edwards supporters to be insufferably smug, superior, and somewhat delusional about their guy and his chances. We are all like fan-club groupies at this stage for our candidates, but I resist the implication that Edwards and his supporters here are any better than the rest of us.

I never said we were better. Not at all. Again, all I'm asking, is to discuss issues, and you still, through all of this, have not brought up one. I'm frankly, kind of tired of watching you prove my point here.

and the media black-out is real.

these thoughts make an edwards supporter angry - ie that a judicious comparison of the candidates has never taken place.

I can only imagine the frustration of Kucinich supporters, as he gets it even worse.

So, recognize that what you call the self-righteousness of the edwards supporters is actually righteous indignation at the state of our nominating process, and the enthusiasm is an attempt to balance the blackout.

have brought that on themselves. That's not to say Edwards supporters haven't thrown their share of flame-bate. They have. But clearly the most vociferous on DU are Hillary and Obama supporters and they are also the two candidates that get the spotlight. For the first time in American history, a minority-class citizen has a better-than-snowball's chance of winning the nomination and the presidency. Minority status, however doesn't qualify one for the highest office in the land. That's not to say that John Edwards is anymore qualified than Hillary or Obama either. Maybe he is... maybe he isn't... Whoever the Dem nominee is gets my vote. Unfortunately, so many hardcore Obama and Edwards supporters have claimed the opposite should Hillary get the nod. I say to anyone who makes the statement that they would NEVER vote for HRC, I hope you find comfort in the conviction of your vote (or non-vote - doing nothing is a choice) should the Republicans win again. Hopefully we will all have a warm place to live during the extended winter of Republican rule. I haven't seen too many HRC supporters say that about Obama or Edwards - not that there aren't any, just nowhere near as many. And no... contrary to the anti-Hillary talking points, Hillary is not another Republican... no more than Obama is. Telecoms still have immunity, folks. Paging Senators Clinton and Obama...

Unfortunately, instead of presenting the positive reasons for supporting John Edwards (who I support as well!!!!!) the poster took the easy way out by pointing out the faults of Edwards' opponents. Karl Rove couldn't have done a better hatchet job.

:eyes:

I've been there. I've been to Iowa, I've been to Nevada, I'm here in Ca, doing it every day. Talk to me. Have you ever phone banked? Canvased?

Pretend I'm the voter. Tell me what Obama is going to do for the American people? You miss the whole point.

you believe John is the Real Deal and should be President. I just think your post is largely overwrought BS. Hillary and Obama have discussed issues ad nauseam, same as Edwards. You can find their stands on just about everything if you Google. Just because the media ignores your guy and likes a catfight between Hillary and Obama does not mean John is inherently endowed with more virtue and substance, yet that's a theme I've noticed Edwards supporters like to run with--"they're ignoring him, 'cause he's a THREAT!" Could be, or they're ignoring him because he's low in the polls. Fair? Maybe not. A reason to reflexively slam the frontrunners as show ponies? Not really.

Again, all I'm asking for is a discussion about issues. From you, and everyone else here. I know about the horse-race, and all the other distractions. Tell me about your candidate. All I see Obama people do lately is talk about Hillary, and visa-versa.

Let's talk issues.

they can't tell you anything off the top of their heads...they all have to go to his site and copy and paste stuff here. I see it over, and over....there are only a couple of Obama supporters that actually know what he stands for, without looking the info up.

Honestly, I kind of miss Joe in this conversation.

Too bad the real candidates went largely ignored. It's such a superficial world we live in. Style over substance.

They knew they would get ignored, so why bother?

but instead it appears we're getting stuck with a choice between Heckle and Jeckle

I've heard about Obama's stimulus package, Hillary's stimulus package, Obama's legislation to pull troops out of Iraq, Hillary's proposal to pull troops out of Iraq, Edwards' plan for Iraq, Obama's non-mandated health care plan, Hillary and Edwards' mandated plans, etc. etc. You must understand that they have been at this for a full year now, and there are only a couple weeks left before Super Tuesday. NOW is the time for politics, and tit-for-tat, and strategy, and dirty tricks, and "closing the deal"--sorry you're sick of that, but it doesn't reflect badly on the candidates--they're fighting to the death in the last few weeks now, it's high stakes. Insults and distortions will be met and answered, little comments have greater magnitude. That's just the way it is in politics.

But hey doggie, if you think this is GOOD for the party then I think you are grossly mistaken.


It usually inspires me that we have good candidates, but I worry about the level of mudslinging and turn of events and how that could really hurt the party in the long run.

I'm not talking about our party uniting behind our nominee. I'm talking about ALL the dirt the other side will have against us.

Is exposing our candidates flaws serving anyone???

Who really gets to benefit by this behavior???

Why GIVE the other side ammo to use against us if either one of the the mudslingers wins the nomination???

this primary season......i do believe alot of this hate and discontent is started by a few rebel rousers or RW trolls just to watch us attack each other....Just my opinion:shrug:

I often wonder how the posters here conduct themselves when they are face to face with someone who doesn't support their candidate:scared:

I've definitely seen my share of the attacks here as well, and it isn't very becoming to the candidates or the posters.

I also agree with your assessment.

For days we have heard about race and sexism. Every freeper insult that's ever been hurled at Bill Clinton has been hurled here. Both Hillary and Obama have been accused of everything under the sun. I happen to agree with you that politics is a dirty business but I am also old enough to remember 68 and how fractured the party became. I don't think anyone is suggesting Hillary and Obama start singing each other's praises. The MSM loves the sniping and most people don't know enough to read or really learn about the issues. Both candidates are letting the MSM control the message. Lord knows, there is enough crap and corruption on the repukes but we don't hear about it.

They got/get plenty of attention.

Or are you just spewing shit?

have talked issues--Jesus Christ, how many debates, how many policy papers, how many speeches have they done, by this point? It's an ugly, hard-fought, trench-warfare political battle between them right now, and that's NORMAL. But on DU, there's a popular meme that Edwards is from the "grown-up wing of the Democratic party", above the fray because he's not involved, which is just a complete joke. That's just a way to salve the wound of him not winning or gaining traction--he'd LOVE to be in Obama's position. I don't mind if people advocate for their candidate, but make a post slamming MY candidate, and I'll respond.

can you please enlighten us to what those policies are? The problem is you didn't/can't. You jumped in with a comment that you didn't even know what it meant. I think there is a video of the SC debate that makes the point all to clear that Obama & Clinton would rather spew shit & misconstrue each other's public statements (or the ones of their lackeys) than talk about their plans. & that doesn't mean in front of their brainwashed supporters who won't ask the tough questions (not staged ones). That to me is sort of like dumb ass W's social security public meetings, all one sided & bereft of details. You still haven't said one fucking thing about a policy difference between either candidate & you've posted twenty fucking times in this thread. It is a waste of fucking breath & space for those of us who care what they are going to do so that we can continue to have freedoms & the ability to provide for our children.

people's ignore list you were on

fuding Obamite who's setting the tone to most of the threads here.

boy we don't see much of that type around here.

notice you didn't say anything about what asdjrocky actually said, most likely because you support someone for reasons other than what they actually believe, just like you respond to posts not on the basis of what they actually say.

like asdjrocky, i'm tired of these two, and i'm completely exhausted by and over the sophomoric idiocy that passes for rebuttal here.

It would be nice to bring the conversation around to the American people, don't you think?

Of course you do, because you support Edwards!

It is the same argument the Hillary-ites and DLC people used against Kucinich!

But now Obama also has the DLC blessing as well...

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I'm about ready to chuck the whole fucking election. It's such a joke. I can't see how anything is going to improve once BushCo leaves office because whoever wins the election is going to be too busy having petty arguments. And 90% of DU is going to be too busy snarking at each other to notice.

Someday you're going to have to explain that name to me.

For whatever reason I have always found frogs and toads to be really cool critters

As they go through their metamorphosis from hatchling to mature hopper they kind of demonstrate the evolution of higher life forms over the last billion or so years. I have always thought that to be elegant.

Since I am a bicyclist and a frog lover, my daughter gave me a cycling shirt a few years ago with a picture of a frog on a bike. Soon as I saw it I adopted that handle. My icon represents ol' frogcycle after crashing in Oct. and shattering collarbone. I'll have to change it - I am once again a quadruped.

and he'd have no choice but to fight back or die.

is always horsebleep. You prove the OP RIGHT. It's ALWAYS ABOUT YOU!!!

But you'll never get it.

Righteous rant Rocky! Great Job!

Oh that's right, we can't . . . but what an awesome post.

I think you forgot one...Bill Clinton nods off!! Makes you wish they would just swiftboat each other and leave Edwards the only possible truthsayer.

Maybe I need to build an excel doc.

It's a classic technique called "divide and conquer".

It's also used in union-busting. Gee, imagine that...

To something other than this stupid constant spat.

}( "I’m ready to kick something, and I don’t have a dog"

I just knew someone would say something like that. By the way, no I do not still beat my dog. Want to talk about some issues? Maybe a plan? What do you talk to people about when you volunteer?

Great rant, Rocky.

I too am a JE supporter so I come in peace.

Regarding "some issues" -

fair and humane treatment of all living creatures IS
an issue for some of us, here.

It goes along with caring, especially for those who
don't have a voice.

;-)

Let's talk some issues, please. The fight of our lives has been turned into a hair-pulling match and pissing contest while the country and the world circle the drain.

:argh: What did Edwards say, something about how it doesn't do any good for someone too get the nomination who won't win the GE? And of course he is right.

you've said it!

:yourock:

Thanks for a fabulous, much deserved rant.

:hi:

Yuck! I really just post to defend Hillary and deflect some of her haters. But, I'm with you. I'm SICK of it too. :puke: I'll try not to get so involved but it's so hard to see the lies told about Hillary and must jump in to defend her. My bad! :bangshead: I'll try to ignore those comments but it's hard. :grr: Wish me luck!

well then you are far better off than me... my ears have been bleeding since 2000:(

No way all of those animals live with you.

the ferrets with halos have crossed the bridge.

soft touch person. They find their way to the door knowing I won't let them get cold or hungry. Good thing to SO is as much of a soft touch. I love them all and couldn't see life without them.

i swear there's some invisible "VACANCY" sign that only homeless animals can see that lead them to my door. all my cats were homeless & wormed their way into my life. we have a graveyard in our backyard of all our homeless pets ... 2 birds, 3 ferrets, 8 cats, no dogs. they come, they stay, they steal our hearts.

They know a good soul when the hear of one (and you know, they do talk). Word has spread there is a kind human who will take care of them.

on edit: i taught them all using the theory of Pavlov's dogs. it really works too!

Those cats are lucky.

I sure I'll be personally attacked here. But, I believe in freedom of speech and anyone with an opinion has the right to voice it.
This is just a fact that I cannot resolve in my own mind. Obama and Hillary are Senators right now. They can call for the impeachment of the criminals in the White House right now. It is hypocrisy to not uphold the Constitution and impeach these criminals. They need to be asked these questions. "You are in office currently and you do not have to wait to be elected President to hold the criminals accountable for the 935 lies that has killed thousands of innocent people. You can do something right now about the fact the Bin Laden has not been killed. You can do something now about the thousands of Americans that died in the national disaster called Katrina because of neglect. You can do something now about the lies regarding torture. Hillary and Obama you are in office now. Why are you not doing anything about this? Is this an example of how you will act if elected president?" :dem:

You get a "You're Good Award"

You're good. You are good.

Impeachment starts in the House of Representatives.
Congressmen, not Senators can bring Articles of
Impeachment

And I would love to hear either of them open their mouths without enough spin coming out to whip up a tornado.

Just for a "change."

as the senators are actually the "jury" - would that be ethical?

that are responsible for damaging this great country and it's Constitution. Just because they are Senators doesn't mean their lips are sewn shut. Nothing is stopping them from talking to their Congressional colleagues or to US citizens about what to do with these criminals. :dem;

... what GREAT points you make! Sure, as senators, they can't initiate a move to impeach, but they sure to hell can prod those that CAN initiate action!!! :grr:

There's gotta be a hidden agenda in DC. There's gotta be something sub-surface to the way the Dems are allowing the crimes and the blocking of progress to happen! I'd submit that there's a tie to the corporate influence, since most of them feed at the same trough!

Heh - here's Obama and Clinton - crowing about the changes they'll make, IF ONLY we'll annoint them to the oval office. SHIT!

Go Johnny GO!

Terrific Post!

!

and I couldn't agree with you more. I'm sick to death of the Obama & Hillary show. I wish they'd both just go away. Hey, I have an idea. How about they get back to Congress where they're supposed to be working for us RIGHT NOW. I'm sure Chris Dodd could use a little backup with his FISA filibuster.

It's bad enough that we have to deal with them, but then we also have to deal with the pundits.

This is great Rocky, thank you.

:kick:

I just found out that the campaign is organizing here in the Constitution State! I was contacted by a lovely volunteer earlier today!

Edwards 2008!!!

Let's work to meet up in the middle Rocky, say Missouri?

Ahead of us, we shall bring a tidal wave of change. Behind us, we will have left states that bring John Edwards closer to the nomination. Count on it.

Edwards 2008!

I totally agree. I was a Hillary supporter who has totally turned off by her tactics since New Hampshire. Obama's performance in the debate on Monday turned me off to him as well. Now I'm all the way with Edwards.

Your first post is a good one. :)

Welcome to DU!:hi: I'm so proud you used your first post on my thread! Again, welcome to DU, and I'm glad to have you with us.

Thanks for the welcome and thanks to Blue_In_AK and NastyRiffraff for your welcomes too. :toast:

And also welcome to the Edwards fold! :hi:

:hi:

Thanks to Edwards' efforts and votes, we have lots of jobs that left for China. We have lots of vets coming back very fucked up or DEAD from the Iraq War he endorsed.

Does Edwards understand or realize that people who are living paycheck to paycheck cannot afford even a fine if they are forced to get healthcare insurance? Yes, these working people will get their wages garnished for enforced coverage that might have gone to buying food, clothes or paying rent.

You can be sick of the Clintons all you want. They are the Democratic Party's triangulated ball and chain.

If you seriously want to learn about Obama's plans for vets, here's a link:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/veterans/

Here's some information on his background on veterans:



Obama has been working on veterans issues for years.

And Obama has not been perfect either. Find me a perfect Senate record, and I'll find you a Senator who is not doing their job.

And thank you for the information. It's one of the first times I've ever seen something posted here about policy on Obama. I took a look at it.

I do think, however, that information can be shared without attacking the other candidate.

...as the title of your OP pertains to this statement?

Good luck.

If you read me, you know I don't spend much of my energy on the attack. I invite you to look at my journal, or just ask around.

I mostly post about issues, and atavism.

But yeah, I'm sick and tired of the circus, if that yanks your chain, I'm sorry.

:yourock:

I do think the last debate woke up a lot of people. A lot of people were impressed when John Edwards pointed out that all the bickering wasn't doing a thing about what people care about, nor were the two bickerers talking about it.

4.9 million people saw it. We can hope.

Excellent post, Rocky.

John Edwards is the only candidate cutting through the bull crap. Barack and Hillary fight back and forth, but the fact is both of them are in a position right now to take steps to make things better for us, and what are they doing?

What are they doing - right now - to help the veterans sleeping under bridges?

What are they doing - right now in the Senate - to provide health care to the millions of American citizens who don't have it?

What are they doing to help the millions who can't sleep at night worrying about how they're going to pay their bills? Terrified that each time the phone rings, it's a bill collector calling. Tormented over coming up with enough money for their children's prescription drugs?

What are they doing? What have they been doing? I'll tell you what they've been doing: NOT ENOUGH.

Both Barack and Hillary could take a stand, cut off the corporate money, and say enough is enough. But they won't. And that's why John Edwards is the best candidate for President, because he has looked the abusive corporate policies in the face and said no.

Edwards is the only candidate who has consistently beaten every Republican in the general election. What good is having the first woman or the first black man as the nominee if they can't beat John McCain?

:thumbsup:

http://www.allbusiness.com/government/3573498-1.html

The office of Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., issued the following press release:

The Senate today unanimously approved legislation introduced by Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) that would provide $28 million in additional funding to help homeless veterans and $12 million dollars to increase employment services for veterans as part of the 2007 budget.

"Each and every night, more than 200,000 of our nation's veterans are homeless," said Obama. "More than 400,000 will experience homelessness over the course of a year. In my home of Chicago, as many as 38,000 veterans spend a night homeless over the course of a year, but our government is doing far too little to help these veterans find homes and employment."

Obama said his legislation would help homeless veterans by increasing funding for the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program (HVRP), which provides food, clothing, mental health and substance abuse counseling, and employment and housing assistance to homeless veterans.

The President's budget funds HVRP at less than half the intended level. Obama said that with its funding diminished, HVRP would only be able to assist 16,250 veterans next year, which amounts to less than one third of the homeless veterans in the Chicago area alone.

Obama said his amendment would allow the program to help more than twice that many veterans. "This funding would put a roof over the head of another 20,000 homeless veterans and would take another step towards ending the shame of a nation that allows those who risked their lives in war to come home to a life on the streets."

Obama said the legislation would also provide an additional $12 million to the Department of Labor to improve jobs services for hard-to-place veterans. Earlier this year, Obama voiced concern about the fact that Illinois ranks dead last in job-placement rates for veterans.

"According to Labor Department statistics, only 34 percent of Illinois veterans who seek assistance find jobs," said Obama. "That's almost half the national average of 62 percent and nine points lower than the second-worst state. Part of the solution to this problem is to increase funding for this program, which is why I am extremely pleased that this legislation passed the Senate today."

Last year, Senator Obama has emerged as a leader on the issue of Homeless Veterans. He introduced the Sheltering All Veterans Everywhere Act (SAVE Act) to strengthen services for homeless veterans. The SAVE Act reauthorizes and expands two critical programs that serve veterans the HVRP and the Homeless Providers Grant and Per Diem (GPD) Program, which helps local governments and non-profit organizations build, improve, maintain and staff homeless shelters and service operations. The SAVE Act would double funding for the GPD program to $200 million and extend HVRP to help prevent homelessness for at-risk veterans.

Senator Obama is a member of the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee. Contact: Robert Gibbs and Tommy Vietor, 202/228-5511; Julian Green, 312/886-3506.

Robert Gibbs and Tommy Vietor, 202/228-5511; Julian Green, 312/886-3506.


***************************

Obama INTRODUCED Bill to Help Homeless Veterans, last April...
http://obama.senate.gov/news/070411-obama_files_bil/

Obama Files Bill to Help Homeless Veterans
Wednesday, April 11, 2007
Printable Format

POST-DISPATCH WASHINGTON BUREAU
By Grant Slater

WASHINGTON — Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., introduced legislation on Tuesday to increase funding for housing and rental assistance programs for homeless veterans, including down-and-out service members returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan.

The introduction of the Homes for Heroes Act follows visits to a veterans' home and a Veterans of Foreign Wars rally last weekend in Iowa during Obama's campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination.

An estimated 200,000 homeless veterans of American wars sleep on the street on any given night, according to the Department of Veterans Affairs. Officials told the Post-Dispatch that some 300 veterans of the wars in Iraq in Afghanistan have filtered through their homeless assistance system but acknowledge that the number could be much higher.

The Post-Dispatch featured the struggle of homeless veterans in an article on Monday.

Obama has sought to balance his opposition to the Iraq war with a legislative message of support to returning troops.

He also is co-sponsoring two other bills aimed at assisting veterans seeking treatment for mental health issues and navigating the veterans' medical care system.

"As we work to end the war in Iraq, we must also prepare to deal with the generation of service members returning home from war," Obama said in a statement.

The housing legislation would:

* Establish a $225 million program to buy, build or rehabilitate housing for low-income veterans.

* Expand rental assistance programs nearly tenfold.

* Create a position for a homeless veterans coordinator with the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Obama introduced similar legislation in 2005. The bill was referred to the Committee on Veterans Affairs but never reached the Senate floor.

That's what I'm talking about. I'll admit to getting a lot of information here, and you've just given me some. It's hard to fight with what he's done, so far, and I'd love to see a lot more stuff like this on DU, and a lot less of the attacks. That's all I'm saying. When we attack each other, we're just following the path the MSM has set for us.

is a good, worthy man to consider. He's my guy, warts and all! :thumbsup:

I so respect the work you do here. On behalf of all of us nut job Dems, I thank you for bringing the good stuff to this table.

Let's take one issue, and demand only serious people with links, etc., address it.
Hopefully, only serious people would answer. Who might coordinate that I would help and applaud.

I'm all for your idea. How bout an issue a night, leading up to Super Tuesday?

I hope Edwards stays through all the primaries so that I get my chance to vote but in the event that he drops out I'll definitely be voting for Obama.

I am an Edwards supporter, but I'd be a lot more willing to listen to what Clinton and Obama (and some of their supporters) had to say, but it's difficult because of all the fighting, name calling, etc.

Tell me where you stand on the issues, Clinton and Obama.

Tell me why your candidate is the best, Clinton and Obama supporters.

Right now, all I hear is the cacophony of voices engaged in a meaningless, ugly fight.

I'm sticking with Edwards, but if, as I said, the other two camps can give me some meaningful information, I promise I'll listen.

K&R

This should be about ideas. No, it should be about great ideas, because as a country, we are in peril.

And I really want to thank the Hillary and Obama supporters who bring the plans and issues to the table. I'm Edwards all the way, but I want to the others, I want to hear great ideas.

I don't know, I'm guess I'm just looking for "the great conversation" and maybe it just doesn't exist anymore.

And it's drowning out DU's top notch news hounds that really make this site great.

:argh:

I have always said I will vote for the Dem nominee whoever it is, but these two are really testing my patience and can be sure that they will not see any of my money in campaign contributions. It would be nice to explain to us just how they plan on unscrewing the mess we are in and what they are going to do to make things better as opposed to he said - she said over and over and over and over.............



:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

K & R!

:headbang:

I'm so confused.

:applause: :kick:

This is where I stand ======v

And I just love your sig.

...I don't buy an ounce of your fluff. I remember how cocky and annoying the Edwards supporters were before the caucuses when they believed they were a shoe-win. I say all three candidates and their fanboys/girls are all equally appalling to neutral spectators.

And I'm not selling fluff, or anything else for that matter. All I want to do is talk about issues, and have an even exchange of ideas.

By the fact you have an avatar that is Joe Biden, does it mean that you speak for all Biden supporters?

I can only answer, and I can only speak for myself.

Just kidding :) But this forums swings support so many times that you just have to bite your lip and live on. First it was Kucinich, then Obama, then Edwards, then Biden briefly, and now its split between Hillama. It's been a crazy ride.

:shrug:

This is a great post... I wish I could of said that first... thank you.

And welcome to DU. :hi: Nice to see so many new people here tonight.

Saving our country IS the issue!

Positioning someone interested in merely helping the corporate clowns control our country and lining the pockets of the elite is not what we are interested in continuing.

The corporate M$M has been heavily distracting us and lying to us for a very long time. Many are still not aware of the depth of their control over us. Let's bust that bubble.

Let's take this country back!

Kick 'em outa' town John!!!

:kick: :hide:

Discussing substance between camps would be preferable to the insanity that carries us away here.

Try Fox news.....

:rofl: :crazy:

It's a war, it’s a battle, it’s a brawl, it’s a...it’s a...it’s a...our national campaign- and hey - it’s all we got, it’s our baby and we gotta love it and we gotta vote, no matter how tiring the media over coverage and spin become.

Newsweek editor, Jon Meachum, speaking to Jon Stewart yesterday, explaining how editors have a bias for drama. They want to show conflict and tension and not fluff stories. Sure ‘nuf, I went to check today’s headlines from some big name papers and last night was a nasty, tangled battle of the toughest, landing blows and punches for the survival of the fittest by underscoring their fierce competition with sharp exchanges.

Oh, yeah, what about us, the little guys...geez....according to the editors this was a clash of the Titans on Olympian Heights dueling for the fate of the little ants out there- the voters. I don’t think so. It ain’t the campaign that’s so bad - after all, the candidates are out there killing themselves in this over long exercise in democracy- it’s the punditocracy who’s telling us what we think- that is hard to take.

========
Tuesday, January 22, 2008 Headlines:

New York Times
Obama and Clinton Tangle at Debate

LA Times
Democrats' debate turns nasty

USA Today
Clinton, Obama lash out in S.C.

Chicago Tribune
Clinton, Obama show toughness
The Swamp: It was clear they had come to battle.

“...last night's Democratic presidential debate in Myrtle Beach, S.C. that both Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama had come to battle, that it was going to be survival of the fittest which would be determined by who could land and take the toughest blows...”-by Frank James, Chicago Tribune.

Washington Post
Democrats Clash in S.C. Debate
Sharp exchanges underscore fierce competition five days before a pivotal test in South Carolina.

"David Letterman tussles John Edwards hair- click to watch video."

I swear it was the headline on yahoo for about 3 hours.

I think probably we'll have a five or six more threads now talking about how mean the DU has gotten!!!

And, maybe they'll build a special room in the Dungeon for you --- !!!

I have met and heard JE on the stump. He was great, ideas too true and right on.

Now, what is your analysis as to why he has not risen to the top of the pile?

What can he do to get the lead and win a state or more?

I'd be working for the campaign, instead of volunteering. This is where I'm at on this. I've been to both Iowa and Nevada for caucus. I've made more than 2000 phone calls and I've talked to hundreds of voters. And the offical answer is, I just don't know.

The people that are for him, are for him. That's simplistic, but it's the best way of saying his core support, in my opinion only, is unwavering. I'd also like to say, most of the Edwards voters I've talked to, in four different states, are pretty well informed people. Also, like you said, when you see him, or hear him speak, you sometimes get it.

I don't want to lay it all in the medias lap, but anyone with eyes can see he hasn't received a fair shake from the beginning. Part of it is certainly the celebrity of Obama and Hillary and the celebrity culture we live in. All you have to do is spend a little time talking to people that are not as curious about politics as we are, and you'll find out how little they really know. I've been asked by people I thought were smart, "Isn't John Edwards that phyic guy?" SurveyUSA has been polling and including only to Democratic candidates. Edwards was outspent 6 to 1 in Iowa, and took a second place, and got very, very little press out of it. If you add it all up, it smells funny.

But what does he have to do to win? Again, I don't have a clue. Keep telling the truth to the American people, and win or lose, you walk away knowing you did the right thing. Another good performance in the next debate, would go a long way to help there too. I don't think we have a harder working candidate out there, and maybe that's all it will take. I never make predictions, and I try to stay away from poll numbers, that's a fools game that I try not to play.

I know I didn't answer a single question here, but I'm making an attempt at honest dialog, so what do you think?

Like those VISA commercials that had the unintended (or intended perhaps) affect of smashing Mastercard by eliminating them from their commercials.

"They don't take American Express, but they do take VISA."

It comes down to the fact that Edwards is the only candidate with the possibility of effecting serious change of the corporate totalitarian status quo. As such, he will be denied in every way possible.

We live in an era as detatched from reality as the 1930s Germans were, and largely by the same mechanisms, though they are orders of magnitude more powerful as the advertsing, psychology, PR, marketing, and the rest of the "science of propaganda" available to our Bushie-Nazis is so much greater than that available to the 1930s Nazi-Bushies.

Anyway, Edawrds is the only candidate that is a threat to business, so the media business would be crazy to give him a platform. This only serves to highlight the dangers of corporate media consolidation and homogenization, but it's too late to do anything about that.

I almost don't want to say any more, Rocky, because I don't want to drag your morale down when at this time all of us need as much morale as we can get.

In fact, I won't say any more, except to thank you for your efforts and your service to the nation. Yes, a campaign worker for Edwards now serves the American People far FAR more than a soldier in the Imperial Amerimacht, which only serves the Bushie Elite and against Old, Free America.

'Nuff said.

I would say that, because most voters do know very little (sorry, but they do), they see Edwards as a 'has been' -- someone who had an opportunity and failed. That, and the fact that with Hillary and Obama, the media has done a lot to make it out to be about race and gender -- that's a huge deal for American politics. And that constant focus on 'race v. gender' -- that excitement that has been created by being an unprecedented race -- has drowned out Edwards' message. That's just my .02 to add to the things you've put out there.

I for one love new things. I love stuff that is "unprecedented." (Which is one of the reasons I support John Edwards candidacy for President.

Don't know how much more of this I can take.

It's not personal and it's probably not even their fault. But I'm saturated. Period. Please please will they leave me alone already.

That is so laughaly untrue, and I include myself here, as to be tragic.

The Bushie Memes are now Conventional Wisdom by dint of repetition and sheer audacity, not to mention the Demnocratic Leadership's two-and-a-half-decades of willful ignorance of the problem and thus total lack of opposition to keep those memes from cementing into stone, which they have.

Because of this absolute non-opposition for 25 years (even before I knew what it was, I was perplexed at a problem I could see vaguely, but it's outlines were just outside my mental vision to understand the enormity and the monstrousness of what I was looking at) Bushie Memes and being lead around by the nose by the Bushie Sub-Media and toadying MSM is as much a part of our surroundings as the air we breathe and NONE are immune from it. Even those who consciously defend against it.

Why? Because like all properly designed advertising and marketing, Bushiganda works at the subconscious to implant and innoculate. Why is this good business practice? Because subconscious innocuation cannot be directly defended against nor purged, it is more effective as an advertising and marketing delivery system.

So I have to laugh at DUers including myself, as we are all so convinced that because we can see through it, we are above it and immune to it. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is as much a part of us and our surroundings as the air we breathe now. We can no more fully dissociate ourselves from it as we could hold our breath and deny the need for oxygen.

THAT, at bottom is why the Bushies have so easily sold totalitarian tyranny to we who were supposedly the "freeset people in the world". Advertising works. Marketing works. Psyhcology works. And in the hands of "Double High" Authoritarian Leaders (see my siglink to Prof. Altemeyer's book and also John Dean's "Conservatives Without Conscience" for greater understanding of this phenomena) in a media-saturated society, it is more potent that the atomic bomb, in mental terms.

I don't know how to beat it or even turn it back at this late date. Because our Democratic Leadership has been so asleep at the switch for 25 years, allowing an open and unopposed playing field, I am not sure it CAN be turned back, not without a massive national uprising which would make things worse in the short-term and maybe the long term, too.

Personally, I blame Ray-gun.

:thumbsup:

and everyone should be voting for him. :D

Make him victorious and the American People represented by someone once again!

Even before the first primary or caucus the corporate press decreed a race between the two most right wing candidates. Clinton & Obama are both "triangulators" with the Republicans; the Clintons with their welfare deform, and now Obama (his Senate mentor was Joe Lieberman) praising Reagan for correcting the "excesses" of the 60's. (Which "excesses," Barack, the Civil Rights Movement, the War on Poverty, or perhaps the peace movement?)
When only issues are considered, the Democratic electorate prefers the positions of Dennis Kucinich - immediate end to the Iraq occupation, single payer health care, and a real graduated income tax. Or Edwards, who comes closest to Kucinich. The corporations and their press, however, will always veto anyone who at all threatens their profits. And their veto will stand unless progressives learn to organize more effectively.

college Young Democrats and Young Republicans are allowed (of course) but the SDS and so on gets kicked off campus. I have always thought the Establishment picked out some promising Boomers (promising to them) like Hillary way back around 1970 and nurtured them through the years to the exclusion of more radical people. I know of another example or two.

just as nasty as they are. What happened to promoting human welfare that used to fuel the Dem party? Seems like assholes and asshats are destined to inherit the earth....:cry:

If only Edwards could get Bill Clinton all riled up, he'd get the pro-wrestling coverage our MSM likes to do best.

Unfortunately, it isn't only the press. Who's winning the primaries? The Democratic party isn't brimming with voters who care about much beyond their own identity politics and economic interest (read: please, please don't foreclose on my McMansion!).

on my side!! I hear you, we have to just keep trying to help however we can in South Carolina.

I hope that everyone will read this and get back to the issues. Thanks!!

Someone who'll bring back dignity to the WH.

Excellent post!

This lil' army of keyboard commandos is well occupied here on DU and not underfoot out here in the real world where the grown-ups are trying to get stuff done.

Let 'em sit in their poop and cry here, it keeps 'em outta my hair.

Julie

:thumbsup: :hi: :dem:

:evilgrin:

The coverage of the cat fight between these two is putting me off voting for either of them. Further more it's not about issues anymore it's about the nasty fight between THEM. I'm voting Edwards in the Florida primary just to send a message to the so called front runners.

I couldn't agree more with you, friend.

I'm so sick of all the crap I see flying on GDP I've got almost 100 posters responsible for it on "ignore" by now, and the list keeps growing every day I visit this place.