I have decided.
My vote goes to Hillary.
This comes from someone who protested the war (at her office a few times) and voted Jonathan Tasini in the primaries of 2006.
I did plan to vote Gravel - the one who mostly reflects my positions. But he is not on the ballot in NY.
From the existing candidates: I know all I need to know of Edwards from 2004 - let's leave it at that
That leaves a choice between Hillary and Obama.
Their records and platforms are similar enough leave me look just at the candidates.
I considered Obama's initial opposition to war - and his subsequent votes to fund it. I also remember a speech he made in 2006 about not needing to look in how the war got started, just what to do from now on.
Still, I celebrated his Iowa victory.
Then the media zoomed on Hillary looking for a "scream" and got me screaming. So I cheered women winning in NH.
Then I find out about Obama's admiration for Reagan
From his book:
"
"The conservative revolution Reagan helped usher in gained traction because Reagan's central insight--that the liberal welfare state had grown complacent and overly bureaucratic, with Democratic policy makers more obsessed with slicing the economic pie than with growing he pie--contained a good deal of truth."

I want to slice the pie - and Reagan grew nothing but the debt.
And I had enough with the St Ronnie worship!
So, I cheered Reagan losing in Nevada.

Then Hillary came for the Florida and Michigan voters - and that was a major factor in my decision. Voting rights matter to me. Party squabbles shouldn't slight constitutional rights.
Obama's "sorry voters but ....me, me, me" - was a painful reminder of the outcome of 2004. I want a candidate who would fight for me in November if needed this time.

Last night when Tim Russert started lecturing Bill Clinton I was almost angry enough to say: just for this and she should get my vote. But I slept on it. My voting decision is important to me, and it will not made to spite this one or that one. I told myself I'll wait to see what the candidates do on FISA.
Upon finding out Hillary is ready to vote stand for our rights, I am now ready to decide.

Other factors that helped me eliminate other candidates - the quality of their supporters. I'll never forget being hounded by 2 Deanies in 2004 when trying to collect signatures to put Clark on the ballot. For a whole hour they made sarcastic comments and laughed every time I would fail to get a signature.
I had deja vu when an Obama supporter gloated about tripping a Hillary volunteer on the phone. But what really will stay with me - and will become a story to my grandchildren one day is the response to my sincere attempt to congratulate the winners:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4216621&mesg_id=4216621
Not really a factor in my decision making, but something that cemented my resolution
Oh, and one more thing: my fellow anti-war protesters called m/wrote me to say that they to will vote for Hillary (thanks Timmeh!!)

Yikes, you tell everyone who to vote for?

as none of us watch MSM. Timeh is a regular recruiting poster boy for Hillary!
For those of us who remember.

I agree with you on most everything. I did not see Timmy last night, and would love to know what happened.

Thanks
Emmy

It's like he took dictation from Rush Limbaugh.

... and Team Obama is entitled to a victory dance, but the viciousness has reached an epic level.

I don't think they realize that the press and the on-line world are not representative of the population, and public sentiment is very much in flux.

Hillary's big comeback in NH was from people upset with the press and Obama team arrogance. If you notice, the polls are tracking against the candidate that the press is celebrating. If I was BHO, I would work especially hard to be gracious, try to calm my enthusiasts down, and be very wary of the press and its kiss of death. And if I was Hillary, I would just be worried -- a lot.

I am not saying this in the mode of sour grapes. The same thing will apply to Hillary as she develops momentum again. This is going to be a white-knuckle primary season and no one can take any change in their candidate's fortunes for granted.

--p!

But I saw no joy there - at least not on this board.
A bit later, the better people came. But for a while - it all looked and sounded like a mix of MSNBC + Rush Limbaugh& Free Republic.
It wasn't "yeay, us! or even "I told you so"
It was "die scum!" and "I hope you suffer!"

Should I thank him?

He was almost saying: Gotcha Bill! You thought you gonna escape us? We gotcha!We won! You lost!
The whole MSNBC crew looked like happy chefs after their meal is eaten - but Tmeeh was the most effective - because we know him from back when.
I always felt a bit guilty for never being an activist during those times, never taking a stand. Life gives me another chance - and i am taking it!
I have no doubt they were showing Clinton's rally in the hope to cath a "scream" or a "tear" or something - "show you hurt, damn it!". Failing that, they went with "she didn't even concede" lie - even as she was on screen doing just that.

channels and sullenly watched Blitzer and company. They weren't great, but they were better than MSNBC. Yes, I was also disappointed in Keith O. I know Hillary lost, and she lost big; but I don't remember them treating Obama as they treated Hillary. Perhaps my memory's short, but I do remember reporting with respect; except, for Tweety's gushing, of course. I was glad he wasn't on last night. He is really getting on my nerves. I might give up TV for the duration, and just read online. I'm pretty sick of all of them.

Both on my account, and on Timeeh!

Because it's all your fault.

What are you going to do when she invades Iran? Or more likely when McCain invades Iran, since Hillary cannot win the General Election.

I have no doubt about that. Hillary is more likely to fight the fraud - if they try to steal it again. Plus she is the "anti-bush" rather the "un-bush"
Frankly, the chances of Gravel stopping the war - are not that big.
And - judging how the MSM - from Rush to CNN push Obama on us, it seems they have more ammunition on him (they shot their wad on the Clintons to the tune of $11,000.000. They got bubkus.

and influential GOP supporter at the moment.

The multinational corporations believe she will allow business as usual. And she's already said shell leave us in Iraq forever. She wants the oil. She won't stop big oil, big pharma, big insurance, none of it.

Whatever you see in her that's supposed to be anti-bush is mostly in her brassiere. Or your uninformed imagination.

Imagine that!

I live in NYC. I see the NY Post covers. That Murdoch put money in all boats is irrelevant. he supports the GOP pic. And MSM supports Obama thrse days - or have you not noticed? Here are some stats:

Obama: 47% positive, 16% negative.
Clinton: 27% positive, 38% negative.
McCain: 12% positive, 48% negative
Giuliani: 28% positive, 37% negative
JDNE

Net numbers

Obama +31
Giuliani -9
Clinton -11
McCain -36

I keep hearing that she's getting "a lot of money" from Murdoch. I want to know how much. With a link please.

just because she is a woman. Mrs. Clinton is my last choice, but my mother's first, based on gender alone. Glad you made up your mind based on other factors. I feel she and Obama are both too closely tied to corporations to offer any sort of change in Washington. Yet it looks like one of them is our likely nominee.

My main concern with Mrs. Clinton is electability. I am concerned with her leaning on her husband so much--it is almost as if this election will be about his time in office rather than her ideas, and diminish her perception as a strong individual standing on her own two feet. If she, indeed, is our nominee, we will need strong arguments to use to convince people to vote for her. And I hope she wisely takes some good ideas from the other campaigns--Obama's use of lawyers as poll watchers, ready to make challenges, is something we need to do in the General Election.

The sexism against Hillary Clinton's campaign has had my blood boiling for weeks. Add to that Obama's pandering to the worst kind of homophobes, and it tipped my decision to support Clinton.

I am disappointed that this country is so far to the right. Both Clinton and Obama are far to the right of my personal beliefs. But either of them is better than any Republican in the White House.

I support Hillary Clinton but I'll vote Democratic in the general election.

are awakening from our slumber. The noise last night got to our ancient, feeble, historical ears. We're in! And we vote! My, how we vote!
The rumors of the baby boomers demise were a bit exaggerated.
To paraphrase a line from Angel: "Mommy is back - and there's gonna be a spanking! :spank:

And all they have to tell me is how inspiring he is. Maybe I'm immune because I don't listen to debates and speeches. I do what Ulysses did so that he wouldn't be tempted by the siren's song: I stop my ears. I've lived among actors and thrilling speeches just mean talent and excellent technique to me, they say nothing to skill in governing.

She is Mrs. Clinton as opposed to Mr. Clinton. If he isn't involved in the discussion, I call her "Clinton" as I do "Obama" and "Edwards". To call it "sexism" to designate that she is a married woman is a complete turnoff for me. I was raised by a single mother who know what real sexual discrimination was--lower pay for the same work, inability to get a housing loan without a man co-signing for it, etc, etc. When I started work, my pay was lower than men who were paid the same. When I started working in local politics, I was put down because I was female--interestingly, my insights and concerns turned out to be correct. I wonder about someone who is offended when a person uses a correct title for a person.

It is not correct to speak of her as "Mrs. Clinton" in the context of the election. Period.

although I am not a baby boomer, i think the sexism and the pandering to the homophobes and the gloatings of the Obama supporters are all the main reasons I am now supporting Clinton as my second choice, and Edwards as my first choice.

Edwards, Gravel, Kuchinich - any of them can beat any of the dufuses on the other side.
Hillary will do the best job - because she'll run against Bush (candidate X being a surrogate of) She did that before in 2000 - beautifully.
She is less thin skinned than others - can take attacks without whining. She is fierce - that's why MSM wants another designated loser to their guy.

I do talk to folks face to face. And from the folks I've talked to, Mrs. Clinton has major problems to overcome. I cannot emphasize this enough--we cannot simply dismiss opposition to her as "media created". If she is, indeed, our nominee, we need powerful arguments to keep people from voting for Republicans.

Not.



in response to this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4201100&mesg_id=4201100

Gloating? Hardly. Just good old-fashioned full-on contempt at the Clinton camp's nonstop play of the Race Card.

And your "analysis" describes precisely the feeling in the Clinton camp that anything, and I do mean anything, goes. Brava!

with a caller until they got the upper hand.People started to make fun of that volunteer - how dumb he/she was!That gave me the flashback.

I never doubted your call to have occurred - or you being rightfully creeped by it. I just think it was a GOP dirty trick - as I posted on your thread,

And it is your blind allegiance to the very same tactics we abhor when it comes from the other side of the aisle that is suspect.

I wonder if the whole ponies promise affects people's comprehension abilities.
Thanks for poisoning my thread though.I would still not do this to you.

The Clintons ARE poison. Get that part straight.

And you do THAT (whatever THAT means) to every single Obama supporter here at DU.

The worst thing about the political season is the paucity of insight as demonstrated here at DU every single day.

Plenty of fighting threads around. You don't need to question my PERSONAL choice - just as I won't yours.

your words.


..


Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject Brilliant rationale!
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4231971#4232598
4232598, Brilliant rationale!
Posted by AtomicKitten on Sun Jan-27-08 01:35 PM

Not.

I had deja vu when an Obama supporter gloated about tripping a Hillary volunteer on the phone.


in response to this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4201100&mesg_id=4201100

Gloating? Hardly. Just good old-fashioned full-on contempt at the Clinton camp's nonstop play of the Race Card.

And your "analysis" describes precisely the feeling in the Clinton camp that anything, and I do mean anything, goes. Brava!

:hi:

primary loyalties - after all, we'll eventually join the same battle again somehow.(It's how I got my tormentors of 2004 to leave me alone, BTW)

all this infighting, not good

I know you remember that I announced my support for her about a month ago with this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3883576

It took a lot of hard thought, and looking at the reality I was faced with rather than the reality I had hoped for before I made my decision. Clark endorsed Hillary in mid September and I held back for over two more months before I did too. I was following no one else's advice, I listened to my own, but as I weighed the actual choices my choice for Hillary became clearer.

From one Tasini supporter to another, welcome aboard!

I didn't imagine back then we'd support the same candidate - but things do change. It took me a longer meandering, but arrived at the same point. Good to be in the same team with you again, Tom!

Who knew?

I guess it was my process. At the end of every day, I would honestly ask myself if I was ready - and until today - the answer was "not yet".
I have not been disingenuous - just slow to come to a final decision.

Even though Senator Clinton is my 3rd choice of the main three, I respect your right to make up your own mind. In the end it's all about beating the GOP in November so let the best candidate win in the primary and then it's on to the GE. :toast:

:toast:

welcome home robbedvote, welcome home

:applause:you truly rock

:)

I'm sorry people were asshats. And I'm very glad you've joined us.

Last night was on - for the obvious reasons. It seems to me it's getting more over the top with each race. I am expecting reenactments with dolls of future rumors they cook up there. I think after NH they felt it backfired - they attempted to tone it down - Nevada wasn't quite as hysterical.
But they are back to the pre-Tweety apology level (Tweety wasn't there - but Scarface,Whora and the woman in glasses did a pretty good job themselves. Pat too with his back handed defenses of Hillary - which were more vicious than the actual attacks.
But Ruslut ruled the coop. Tweety will be jealous he didn't get to deliver that lecture to Bill Clinton.

and Obama wasn't quite an adult when it began. I can't really judge a candidate by their supporters, although Dean supporters seem to hang on forever (even now)

Have you heard that neither Hillary nor Obama are willing to work with coordinated campaigns in the states? Thats going to be very strange.

started to go "1984" on us - and it never let off. They made liberal a dirty word - and Obama seems to subscribe to that meaning when he writes his book.
I am a liberal. I am using this word - instead of "progressive" - because I am determined to take it back. For years I've been obsessed with taking it back. For years I seethed when DU-ers used "PC" as an argument for anything (RW think tank creation to marginalize us and allow them to be racists and bigots)
So, Obama subscribing to the jargon - hit me where I live.
Not sure what you mean about coordinated campaigns in states - I haven't been involved in any campaign this year. I am merely voting - and standing for some truth.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4235200
Obviously, I must have doe something right to draw such fire. Not unlike the candidate I support.

I've been supporting Hillary from the start.

:kick:

DemEx

in my decision. The only club on DU this year I want to be a member of.

Great decision! :applause: