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The chance that Dean will give the Clintons an advantage by permitting MI and FL

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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:17 PM
Original message
The chance that Dean will give the Clintons an advantage by permitting MI and FL
is zero to none. He is an honorable man and will not cowtow to them and their filthy political tactics.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. There are other issues at stake besides "cowtowing" to the Clintons.
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, its called not disenfranchising the voters in MI and Florida!
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 02:21 PM by Windy
For those delegates to be seated, a new primary vote must be conducted in those states. To do otherwise is nothing more than election tampering!

Dean won't stand for any interference in the primary process by voter manipulation.

That is the issue!


I am from Michigan and it is important to ME and other dems in our state!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Do you think MI will spring for another primary?
What a mess. :(
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Dean Better Think about the National Election
If you punish a customer, he doesn't return.
We kinda happen to NEED these states.
Hillary Clinton is absolutely right on this one.
Obama is only playing politics.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. LOL! That's right. OBAMA is playing politics and not that well known
voter advocate, Hillary Clinton.

:rofl:
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. so it's better to lose the state of FLA to the Republicans?
You know - THE BIG PICTURE?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Are triangles your favorite shape?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. No, it's better for FL Dems to vote out thier idiotic state leadership. When was the last time
you attended your local party meetings?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. Why haven't Dem rank and file voted out their party leadership in those states?
I would be pissed off at them for voiding my vote.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. The state can't pay for it, but the party could pay for their own caucus.
Some Dem legislators floated that plan in the midst of all the manuvering last fall, but it didn't win then. Maybe it would now.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I hope Dr. Dean can help this to be worked out with a minimum
of acrimony.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
36. Don't think Dean can do squat as it's the convention that will vote on this question
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I would be fine with a new primary in MI.... and it is not too late to Florida right the
first time.... there will be a major problem for the Dem nom in the GE if the DNC allows ALL of the voters to be disenfranchised in the primary.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Isn't it just a few days before the FL vote? n/t
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yes, but as far as I know all of the names are on the ballot and everyone would
have an equal (limited) amount of time to campaign.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Isn't Clinton scheduled to be in FL tomorrow? I wonder what
the rest of her calendar looks like.
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Blarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. why didn't she speak up before ?
WTF...

You should be smarter than that....but here we are.
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. weak
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I'm with Hillary
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 02:27 PM by neutron
Punishing states is bad business.
Civil Rights Movement was a great cause, but the
manner it was implemented cost us the south to this day.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. It is not too late to do Florida right the first time, and MI could be re-done....
you are correct. We cannot punish the voters and alienate them for the GE.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. HIllary Clinton couldn't care less about those states or she would
have spoken up sooner. I notice she only spoke up after she made her calculation as per usual.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. She is right, even if it is for the wrong reasons.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. It's terrible that the voters in these states have to be put through this
so the state party bigwigs can throw their weight around. I'm all for straightening this out in a fair manner if that is possible.
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Yes, Dean better. If he gives the ok for Clinton politcal dirty pool he will
lost many dem voters.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Michigan And Florida Will Be Participating In The General Election, And Those Votes WILL Count !!!
They took themselves out of the primary process.

:shrug:
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. We in the rank-and-file sure as hell had nothing to do with this.
The state party chair went around to each county party and was told in every one not to mess with the primary, that we didn't want to lose our votes. Yeah, they sure listened to us. :eyes:

As for the GE, my gut says MI will swing red, especially if the GOP nom is McCain. They have all their campaign machinery up and running, including lots of fundraisers, and they've done a damn fine job of spinning this that the RNC respects Michigan and our status as the worst economy in the US better than the Dems do. Hard to convince people to vote for someone who didn't think their votes mattered in the primary.
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. they'll swing red because
they perceive they are being jacked around by DNC.

MI and FLA probably wonder why NV got an early primary and they didn't.
They probably feel like they're being dicked around with.

I think it's time to concede that Senator Clinton is right.
Even though Obama stands to lose a state.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. We're being jacked around all right--by all of them.
Our state party higherups were massive morons to go for a Republican idea like this, and the DNC was stupid to not come up with a better compromise so as not to lose the state in the GE.
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. FLA wants Hillary as a candidate
so you're saying fuck them?
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. If we Lose MI and FLA
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 02:36 PM by neutron
in order to accomodate Obama interests, Dean should step down.
And I am a passionate Dean supporter and fan.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Bullshit.
a Hillbot cannot possibly be a Dean fan, as the DLC have made him their sworn enemy.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Well, that IS a good enough reason.
It's also the only reason Hillary gives a shit about the problem. Which was caused by her own DLC flunkies.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. I agree.
:hi:
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
27. It's not up to Dean. As I understand it,, the candidate who is the nominee
can ask their delegates to vote to let the MI & FL delegates vote. If there is no candidate who gets enough delegates to be the nominee by the time of the convention, the 2 or 3 remaining candidates can and I'm sure will ask their delegates to permit both state delegates to vote as well. Dean can't control that.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
28. So you think he should give Obama an advantage
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 02:37 PM by okasha
by disenfranchising Democratic voters in two states, voters who had no say in their primary schedule? Regardless of who benefits or doesn't, I don't think Dean, or the Convention committee, will be willing to punish two states that are necessary to a Democratic victory.

'Course, this is just another version of Obama's message to LGBT's: "Fuck you, but vote for me anyway."
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Being a Floridian
I can pretty much tell all of you Florida will be a red state in the GE. Whether the primary in florida counts or not at this point many people of my state are disheartened by the turn of events. It's too late for our votes to count because the primary is on tuesday, so the idea of votes counting will not occur. That said, I can promise you Florida will be RED. I'm voting for Barack or Hillary, whichever it is but my vote wont count for much in the big picture. So, Barack and Hillary should just shut up about our votes counting in the primary, it's a moot point. From a upset Floridian. :(
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
37. I believe you are right on the money. Dean is honorable, there was an agreement, and despite the
passionate hoopla John Dean will stick to that agreement, come hell or high water. I could be wrong, but that's the way I see it too.
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. The real issue here is not the state dem party, neither is it the rulings by the DNC...
the real issue is the voters of the affected states. Obama should join Hillary immediately calling for the seating of the delegates. Wouldn't hurt Edwards to contribute something here as well.

Florida, thanks to Jeb Bush and those wonderful hi-tech machines has been a red state for several years. The disinfranchisement lists have been at least partly taken care of.

One Michigan poster on this thread said that the Michigan party went to each district and despite the negative response by the voters in those districts to their plans to jump the primary line, went ahead. Perhaps some major penalty for the state Dem Party officials who did this. Let the delegates be seated.
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