Edwards and Clinton managed to keep ads out of Florida. Is Obama that incompetent?

couldn't even manage to keep ads out of Florida after pledging not to run them?

Is he that incompetent? Doesn't bode well for a president. :scared:

Or is he just dishonest?

Aren't we tired of asking that question about Bush?


Obama falsely claimed he had permission to run the ads:


http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/obama-wrong-abo.html

Obama Wrong About D.N.C. Claim
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January 22, 2008 12:00 PM

ABC News' Teddy Davis Reports: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., inaccurately claimed Tuesday that the Democratic National Committee has defended his decision to launch a national cable buy reaching a substantial number of homes in Florida, a state which violated D.N.C. rules by scheduling its contest before Feb. 5.

"The DNC has consistently said that we have not broken that pledge," said Obama.

Obama's claim is not true.

"The DNC has not weighed in on the pledge because it was a pledge with the state party chairs from the four early states, not the DNC," DNC spokeswoman Stacie Paxton told ABC News.

back in 88 and 84.

Why do you keep posting this stuff day after day? You've already asked this question.

ETA: Take your argument to the DNC, they approved it.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/obama-wrong-abo.html

January 22, 2008 12:00 PM

ABC News' Teddy Davis Reports: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., inaccurately claimed Tuesday that the Democratic National Committee has defended his decision to launch a national cable buy reaching a substantial number of homes in Florida, a state which violated D.N.C. rules by scheduling its contest before Feb. 5.

"The DNC has consistently said that we have not broken that pledge," said Obama.

Obama's claim is not true.

The only people in a position to alter and/or reinterpret a pledge are the parties to whom the pledge was made. In this case Obama made a pledge to 4 State Democratic Party. He only asked one of them to agree to see it his way.

Why do people keep bringing this up when it has already been explained away? The only reason Obama's ads are running in Florida is because they are part of a national advertising campaign. It's way easier and cheaper to run a national campaign than running separate ads in each district.

That's his reason?

Because that's not the same as explicitly running ads in Florida.

Why? Because the way that Obama did it sent his campaign ads into over 6.5 million households and that broke the no campaigning in Florida pledge.

Do you think only Obama was clever enough to figure out that it was easier and cheaper to take out a national ad contract like that? Do you think only Obama has a need to save money by going that route? I don't. What I DO know is that only Obama is running campaign ads in Florida. You can spin like a top but the truth of that remains.

Unlike Clinton, who started pushing to have Florida counted only after it was clear she would have a majority there.

And opposed the Cullinary Workers vote in Nevada only after it was clear she wouldn't win their vote.

And stayed on the ballot in Michigan after Obama and Edwards had pulled their names off it.

Hillary now appears to be. Even though there are 0 delegates there.

And all candidates abide by the same rules against campaigning there so that no one gets an unfair advantage, are you telling me that it is irrelevent how millions of Florida residents vote? Are you telling me that it will not tell us anything relevent if 50% voted for Edwards while Obama and Clinton split the rest down the middle? Are you saying those results would have the same impact politically as if Obama got 50% of the actual Florida voter votes while Edwards and Clinton split the rest down the middle?

Are you suggesting that while we debate endlessly the significance of Edwards being popular in the South or Obama doing well in States that have large black populations, or who connects in Ohio or who latinos are likely to come out for, that it does not matter who Democrats in Florida are enthusiastic for when they get a chance to vote?

Do you think Florida is an inconsequential state when it comes to the 2008 election?

Obama arranged for his and only his campaign ads to be broadcast into Floridas homes. Assusming his campaign knows what it is doing campaign ads tend to win rather than lose campaigns votes. Has the obvious not occurred to you? Obama would like to improve his showing in Florida.

the democratic party as a whole for not working something out before hand. If there was some way for obama to get his national ad buy without undue expense without the ads being seen in florida, sure, i agree obama should have taken those steps. But since florida has 0 delegates this year, and the all campaigns havent fought in this state like they would have if there were delegates, the vote will mean about as much as a poll. The fact that someone can find outrage in obama ads showing up in florida, while not finding any in hillary breaking her word, is mind boggling.

1) The pledge was voluntary but Obama made it. He has not been released from it by even a majority of those to whom he made the pledge.

2) If no other candidate takes advantage of whatever wholesale arrangement that Obama made to air national ads that penetrated the Florida market, then he was put at absolutely no competitive disadvantage by honoring the pledge that he made.

3) Do you honestly believe that if Obama does much better than expected when Millions of Florida residents actually VOTE (not just some 400 respondent sample opinion poll)that the Obama campaign and Obama supporters near and far will not proclaim the importance of that vote? Do you honestly think an Obama victory in Florida, or a much stronger showing than expected, will be ignored by Obama supporters? Or do you think Obama supporters will suddenly find very important meaning in Florida's results if they turn out to reflect well on Obama's campaign? I think the latter. And I think the national media would react exactly the same way, right before Super Tuesday.

1- if your refering to his pledge not to air ads there, like i said, if there was some way he could of had a national buy without them showing up in florida without undue expense, sure he should of taken those steps.

2-you'll have to dumb it down cause i cant understand your point. I'm not afraid to say im not as smart as you :)

3-absolutely i agree, either of the campaigns will have somebody say something about the vote if they place well like what hillarys campaign must have put out about her showing in michigan. But considering that the vote will be awarding 0 delegates, considering that no campaign fought for the state like they would have if it was in play, considering that it will be a representation of people who decided to go vote where no delegates are being awarded, simply put the vote has as much bearing on the convention as a poll.

About point two. The only reason Obama or anyone else can give to justify a national media buy that includes sending ads into Florida is to save money. I have seen it argued by others that some media companies claim one can make an otherwise national buy that leaves out some area, but I have not looked into that. So I will accept that Obama could not make a national ad purchase on cable without sending ads into Florida.

But there are other ways to make ad purchases. Such as regional and State ad purchases. In other words Obama could have shown his ads everywhere except for Florida if that was important enough to him. Doing so may have cost him a little more, that's all. And sure, money is tight during a political campaign, but no campaign has as much money as they think they need. Obama's campaign has been as well funded as Clinton's. She chose not to save money by making the type of national ad buy that Obama did. The reason she didn't was because of the Pledge.

Since Clinton was not taking advantage of any special national ad deals, honoring the 4 State Pledge was a level playing field. No one got to save money on ads that way because everyone agreed not to air campaign ads inside of Florida. It did not hurt Obama relative to other candidates not to do that national deal. Instead it helped Obama relative to other candidates to do that national deal. He alone saved money and he alone got his ads seen inside of Florida. I am sure Clinton would like to save money and have her ads seen inside of Florida also, but she and Edwards abided by the Pledge agreement instead.

for the same amount of resources, then yes, it makes me wonder why he didnt go that route instead. But from what i can see, he didnt have that option, so his ads got seen in a state where 0 delegates are being awarded, and the contest is essentially for bragging rights like michigan. now, can you explain to me why on earth hillary wants michigan and florida delegates to be allowed at the convention all of a sudden, as opposed to any time around the last few months when iowa and new hampshire were going on?

He tried to gain an advantage by doing so even though it broke his pledge. I have no doubt that Obama has good ads and only his ads are getting seen inside Florida. That will help him in Florida. This is a legitimate way to counter that because her position is the correct one for the Democratic Party to take prior to the convention.

You should know that I firmly believe, if this race does not come down to the wire, that all of our candidates will soften whatever opposition they have to seating the delegates from Fl and MI before the actual convention. Unless they would have if they don't dig themselves too deepley into a hole now that they can't back out of later. It is possible that if one candidate would win by barring those delegates but would lose if they are allowed into the convention, that one candidate may oppose seating them. Otherwise it is a no brainer to me.

It was national news in 1968 when the Democratic Party refused to seat delegates from some states and there were very strong feelings aired about it at the time and it was a part of the Democrats ending up so divided when they left Chicago. The last thing any nominee that the Democrats will settle on this Summer wants is to get a whole lot of very active Democrats (and those are the people who actually become delegates) really pissed off by making them return home from the convention without getting any chance to participate in it after travelling all the way to it. And they sure as hell don't want that to happen in MI and FL which both were very close states in the 2004 election.

Some face saving compromise will be worked out if that is what it takes. There will be some pledge made by FL and MI about the future process that the DNC will trumpet as a new begining and then everyone will make nice in public. The real teeth against FL and MI were always the agreements made in the 4 State Pledge. Those took all of the advantages out of moving up their primaries for both MI and FL. That is one reason why it bothers me that Obama broke that pledge.

in florida. Which is what? Bragging rights? A headline? In a state where no one campaigned for delegates. Because there are none. What was the impact of hillary's showing in michigan? That would be the impact of florida. So hillarys decision to counter obama ads slipping
into florida (where he is looking for 0 delegates) is to allow those delegates to show up at the convention at the last minute? For the most self-serving of reasons?

Mind you, at the end of the day, if those delegates will have no impact on the race, sure seat them it doesnt hurt any candidate. But her decision now is so self-serving.

She would have taken that position anyway. Taking it now counters Obama's ads in violation of the no campaign pledge in Florida.

I think you are seriously minimizing the impact of the Florida vote. Fortunately for Obama, he doesn't (even is he has to say he does). Hence he has ads running in Florida now.

not to participate in that primary. How can she agree not to take part in a primary, then miraculously change her position at the last minute?

down to the neighborhood

inadvertantly got seen in florida? He's not trying to win delegates in florida.

Obama is not competing in florida.

It doesn't matter if there are no delegates. Many folks don't know about that game. If the headlines the next day are "Clinton wins Florida with 55%, Obama distant second" it is bad for Obama period.

headlines arent going to be showing up at the convention.

In a state where people know their vote will be sending 0 delegates? Not so much. It would be nice, sure, like being ahead in a poll.

Its so obviously self-serving its mind numbing.

Clinton getting her ass beat by "incompetent" politician? Man, she must be absolutely incompetent.

Mercer for America: to prove Jeb Bush is all in my house with disease.

Pick one.

n/t

Hillry is being dishonest... she wants FL and MI to count now that it is too late for anyone to compete fairly to beat her in those states.

The "N A T I O N A L" ads are running in Florida. That's in violation of the pledge all the Democratic candidates signed not to campaign there.

As for the rest of your post, bullshit. Clinton wants FL and MI to count now that Obama is campaigning in Florida and it's too late for anyone who honors the pledge to compete fairly with him. Obama is on the ballot, and Hillary is not campaigning.

Obama was threatened with the Clintons defining him before he could define himself. Here, he learned from Kerry's 2004 campaign that he needed to put money behind defining himself as soon as others sought to fill gaps with negative characterizations. Kerry did some of this in spring 2004, but likely should have done far more - when he could still use primary money. It used to be that the conventions did the lion's share of this.

Clinton had no need to do this as she is very well defined. Edwards did not have the money to spend a significant amount on national ads.

*sigh* Fine. Let's just make MI swing red.

While you do have a point, you wrap it in so much garbage that the point is lost, so that instead of promoting a respectful discussion, you create hot air and nothing else.

If Clinton were doing this DU would explode.

Cry me a fuckin river. He got permision from the only chair left before florida.

:kick: