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bidenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:52 PM
Original message
Had enough of DYNASTIC politics?
Bush, Clinton, Bush...

Clinton?

A lot of people are saying that a Hillary win would mean that the American system is fundamentally broken. That we remain obsessed with dynasty in a way that would make more sense in a monarchy than a republic.

Well, that may be, but I can't help noticing that the very same people are touting endorsements by... the KENNEDYS!

I mean, c'mon. If you're against dynastic politics, how can you justify making such a big whoop over the fact that the daughter/brother/third cousin-twice-removed of JFK has backed your man? It's ridiculous.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. All I can say is Ted Kennedy has cast more Liberal votes than ANYONE
Ever. In the history of the US Senate.

Whoever his brothers were, he matters.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. All part of the reinvent the 60's political climate thing going on by some Dem's.
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. And for that, we are not going to count your primary vote...oh wait, too late.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I have no idea what you are talking about.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Who did Bobby Jr. endorse again?
I mean we all know why he did it, but it doesn't change the fact.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. The one who would let him inherit her Senate seat.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh, I'm all for dynastic politics. I'm just against dynastic *rule.*
Is there a Kennedy or Bush on the presidential ballot?
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bidenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. then don't vote for a dynastic candidate
But if you're saying that dynasties shouldn't produce candidates but should have influence in determining which ones succeed, I think you're making a weird distinction.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I'm saying no such thing.
I happen to appreciate Caroline and Teddy, the last heirs to the JFK Dream. I am very thankful they are alive and here and still passionate about progressive causes and politics.

This is about Presidential politics, though, and as a commenter wrote below, even Poppy Bush was President longer than JFK. I certainly have never thought of the Kennedy Family in terms of presidential dynastic rule, the way I have the Bushes and, now, the Clintons.

Apples to oranges.
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bidenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. definition please
Caroline and Teddy, the last heirs to the JFK Dream.


What does this mean? "Heirs to the JFK Dream"? Isn't this just another way of saying they have more DNA in common with him than the rest of us? Or are you referring to the Kennedy family finances?

I think the JFK Dream which most of us know as such extends a little further than JFK's friends and family.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. I'm talking about quite a bit more than DNA...
... and you know that, but I can't picture two other people who more embody JFK than his last surviving child, and his last surviving sibling.

Both have worked tirelessly for progressive causes their entire lifetimes. Why such sour grapes about them supporting someone who you clearly do not?
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bidenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. no sour grapes
I just dislike double standards. I'm not supporting anyone at the moment... just waiting for a GE candidate to emerge. My man dropped out a while ago.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Except it's not a double standard...
... and you're employing a non-sequitur. The Kennedys represent by no measure dynastic presidential rule.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. very same people are touting endorsements by... the KENNEDYS!
How long did a Kennedy serve as President?

Even Bush Sr. was President longer than JFK.

So that accounts for 4 years, but then theres the other 16 years between Bill and W.

Now think about a possible 8 years of another Clinton, and your point was what again?
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bidenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. hey, if the voters want 8 years of clinton, they can knock themselves out
I just think a lot of this whining about dynasties is coming from within glass houses.
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. careful, with the Caroline endorsement your rubbing raw nerves.
Attack Ted all you want. But if you were alive that day in 1963 and to live through what happened. Now to hear Caroline endorse a candidate is very moving. I don't know that she has ever spoken about a candidate.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. You noticed that, too?
There is just too much irony going on. We sure are a wacky bunch.

--p!
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ursi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
13. The difference between the Bush dynasty and the Clinton dynasty is Clintons server together
So we would get 16 years of the same people who gamed the rules in the White House.
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bidenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. wow
If we're so definitely guaranteed TWO terms of Democratic rule by Hillary, I think that's a pretty powerful argument for making her our nominee!
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. wow...
did you just think of that? What a novel post! :thumbsup:
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. I don't give a fuck that he's JFK's brother. I care that he's the icon of American liberalism.
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bidenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. there are better icons
Teddy Kennedy has been used again and again by the Repugs to trash the cause. Rewatch the 2004 debates if you don't believe me.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. And why do you think Bush kept going to TK in the '04 debates?
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 07:23 PM by Occam Bandage
Because TK is the standard-bearer for the Democratic party. He's the icon of American liberalism. He's cast more liberal votes than anyone. If you want to paint Kerry as a super-liberal Democrat, a TK comparison will work well. Personally, I don't mind that same icon of liberalism endorsing Obama.

He's big-time.
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bidenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. uh, no
I think he kept going to TK because Rove knows that TK is a divisive figure with a problematic past who makes a lot of people wary about liberals.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. TK is indeed divisive. TK is divisive largely because he is unapologetically and ferociously
liberal.

Yeah, he killed someone in a car when he was young. So did Laura Bush. We've moved on. That isn't what's divisive about him. What's divisive about him is that he is relentlessly Democratic.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. Political dynasties are one reason why we had a revolution
..if anyone cares to review American history. They are anathema to a truly democratic system.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. Lets all keep the Bush Clinton Dynasties going!!!! Yeah!!!!
Elect
Hillary Clinton
Jeb Bush
Chesea Clinton
another Bush
another Clinton

your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck your records stuck

:sarcasm:
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
25. I wish Caroline was running
she is an amazing woman who seems to have lived a life of quiet integrity.
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