I think Clinton will still win the nomination

Endorsement doesn’t matter that much, and winning in S.C is not enough to change the voting preferences for those who will be voting on Super Tuesday, it will not alleviate the doubts people have about Obama.

I believe Hillary will still win the nomination and she will win big on Super Tuesday and in Florida.

at doing whatever it takes to win, no matter how unethical.

running "national" ads that happen to appear in FL

that kinda stuff?

when did Hillary run ads in Florida? I never heard about that one. I know she is pretending to care abour MI and FL voters now that she thinks she needs us to get the nomination, but I didn't hear about the ads. :shrug:

I thought those were the kind of unethical tactics you were talking about. My mistake. It only counts when people imainge Hillary doing it, I forgot.

She is going to hit the ground running,
and Obama is going to fumble around.

Clinton proved her smarts in the NV and NH debate.
She outfoxed both of those guys, and the media gave
her no credit for it.

Obama might be OK, but right now this country
cannot afford to take a chance. We are in a
shambles.

Let the Clintons get the place in shape again, and
Obama can get more experience and we'll be
happy to have him next time.

Yeah, I've seen too many slime tactics from Obama
supporters on the web. It's been going on since
summer and has me creeped about about the guy.
The Clinton supporters haven't engaged in that
stuff to her credit.

...and it is pitiful to watch. How would he stand up to the viscious onslaught of the republicans and the media if he makes it to the general? His camp endlessly attacks Hillary but then cries 'boo hoo' at every slight little critique. God help us if he is the nominee.

:popcorn:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4239074#4239158

:popcorn:

Hillary Clinton is a smart cookie, and tough to boot!

I agree. Endorsements are virtually meaningless.

...

I certainly hope not. Bush-Clintonism needs to end NOW.

She is learning a lot more about how to campaign and counter negative attacks, she is more experienced than ever, thanks to Obama and the negative press coverage.

She is using Roves tactics to smear a good man. She is trying to divide the country along racial lines. The only thing Hillary has learned is that if she is to have the power the she so desperately wants, she will have to lie and cheat and distort. The last thing this country needs is the kind of experience Hillary has to offer. We have had 20 years that shit. We don't need any more.

I don’t think she did anything bad.

I don’t think those are “Roves tactics”, but standard politics. I think sometimes, she even raised some interesting things about Obama that people should know about.

Perhaps it depends on the meaning of the word "anything".

Yeah...more politics as usual....that's the ticket!:eyes:

If that isn't Rovian, then nothing is.

DOVER, New Hampshire (AFP) - Hillary Clinton on Monday warned that Al-Qaeda watched US elections, urging Americans not to risk electing an inexperienced president, in her latest implicit swipe at rival Barack Obama.

In one of her most overt plays of the national security card yet, the senator from New York noted that days after Gordon Brown became British Prime Minister, militants planted bombs which failed to explode.

"I don't think it was by accident that Al-Qaeda decided to test the new prime minister," Clinton said here, referring to two devices which did not go off in London and a car which was crashed into Glasgow airport in June.

"They watch our elections as closely as we do ... they play our allies."
--------
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080107/pl_afp/usvote2008clintonattacks_080107215635

Basically, vote for me or Al-Qaeda will attack. Didn't Giuliani say something similar?

EDIT to say, Welcome to DU!

Perfectly legitimate for her to do, even if you don't agree with her.

Again, attacking your opponent by invoking Al-Qaeda or terrorism is a Republican tactic. If she wanted to point out that she would be cool under pressure, or that she has better ways of dealing with terrorism, I'd be fine with that.

"I don't think it was by accident that Al-Qaeda decided to test the new prime minister,"
=
"Only I can protect you from terrorism. If you vote for Obama, you could die."

Thats how I see it. You see it differently and thats fine. I just expect better of our representatives.

It is nice to hear you think Obama taught her a thing or two about campaigning

Bet she would disagree

conservatives hate that old piece of crap mccain. we will beat him easy unless alot of democrats sit home on election day

Many progressives and anti-war folks will sit home, or vote 3rd party. How many will stay home, I don't know; but we need every vote.

If it comes down to McCain Vs Clinton, it will be a VERY close race.

Welcome to DU, by the way.
Don't let the nastiness fool you, we're quite calm in between elections :)

...and only if, John Edwards says so. :)

Honestly, I don't dislike her, but I really believe that she is the one candidate who will either lose or be close enough for the repukes to steal the election.

I think it's a damned shame, because she would be an excellent president.

But I don't think people will be influenced by what Teddy thinks or says.

What the hell are you talking about? You have never heard that expression? Where have you been? And it's not "homophobic" :crazy:

It's not just Teddy who is upset with Bill. It's most of the Kennedy family who realize the Clinton's are ripping the party apart. The Kennedy's know someone needs to stop Bill before he completely destroys the party.

If you get my drift...

That is an old expression that both men and women use and you know it. Argue the point I made about the Kennedy's and their reason for being upset with Bill rather than try to change the subject. That would be the adult thing to do.

Language is an important thing to me, I like politically correct languages, don’t tell me what should be considered an “adult” conversation. The biggest reason I won’t support Obama is because many of their supporters seem to have no clue about the how prevalent subtle sexism, homophobia, and transphobia operate in this society. The feel good politics is almost like “pat on your back” congratulation each other on how hopeful and cool we all are, but ignoring and dismissing how people are marginalized in a subtle way. What particularly pisses me off is when people say Hillary is just a wife and she wouldn’t be where she is if not for Bill, I want her to win because I want people to recognize that “just a wife” can win.

about political correctness? In what way does the phrase "rip him a new ass hole" have ANYTHING to do with political correctness? It's not sexist and it's not a racial comment. It means "someone is in big trouble and is going to hear about it". And you already knew that but tried to make this into something it NEVER WAS!


I don't doubt Hillary would be where she is today without Bill and I am sure Bill owes her one hell of a lot, not to mention it sounds like she called a lot of the shots when Bill was president. I would LOVE to vote for a women! However, I am absolutely outraged by the DISGUSTING, SELF-SERVING, CRAP that both Bill and Hillary are pulling and I am glad many on the party like the Kennedy's, Tom Dashiell, John Kerry, Mike Papantonio and many, many others are finally telling Bill to cool his shit.

Now take off the rose colored glasses and see how Bill and Hillary are ripping the party into pieces.

Oh jeez... Give us a break. As a gay man, I must say not all references to asshole(s) are gay-specific!

And clearly I meant that Teddy was going to sexually abuse Bill. :eyes:

Wow, this place is getting more wacky everyday! :banghead:

Thanks for pointing out the obvious! :thumbsup:

will bring up Bill's recent role. He possibly should since it seems it annoyed him so much.

<snip>

So now Super Tuesday is a contest between those who are mired in racial division and those who are willing to transcend it.

Will Obama’s move trump the Clinton strategy? A lot hangs in the balance. Ultimately, the choice will say more about our soul as a nation than about the candidates in this election.

The boldness of Obama in accepting the Clintons’ injection of race as an issue and his insistence on an enlightened answer challenges us all. Even as one’s head warns that the strategy will fail, one’s heart hopes that it will succeed.

Either way, Obama has made the Super Tuesday vote more about who we are than who the candidates running for president are.

Was it worth a new thread over it? :shrug:

If you start more threads, it will be worth even more to you. :hi:

but the battle will be tougher than almost any of us could have imagined. it is my understanding that sen obama's ground game is as exceptional as sen clinton's establishment ties. i plan to find out, soon, when i go volunteer.

time to get to work for sen obama!

you should keep us updated.

I don't know whether Hillary can still get the nomination or not. While I have not been a supporter of any of the top two, I do find myself feeling very pissed at the "apparent" movement under way to subvert Hillary in favor of Obama.

I am from a red state, and I have been a dem for longer than I would like to count. I do, however, see some dubious movements in favor of Obama that I do not like. I believe that the "powers that be dems" are staking their claim on Obama BECAUSE he is black - not because he has the knowledge/experience it will take to lead this damaged nation. I find that reprehensible!

"Inspiration" is a great motivator......but unless you have some "meat" on that inspirational bone, it doesn't mean jack. I have not heard enough detail from Obama to make a decision either way.

I continue to be disappointed at the way the "party", per se, is operating.

But I agree with what you mean about subverting Hillary to Obama. The media is doing that too, and it’s almost like beating on a dead horse.

I think I am particularly sadden by the lack of sympathy or understanding from Obama supporters with regard to the misogyny that is facing Clinton and women in general. I don’t believe there will be “hope” if the very people in it are so unaware or have no clue on sexism and how it operates. The same with homophobia.

of the extreme effort women made during the Civil Rights Movement - hoping to be a recipient of the benefits blacks ultimately gained as a result - women did not gain anything significant from their efforts in this movement. Sad, but true! I see that, once again, gender is being purposefully subverted in favor of race. I resent that my chosen party is pandering to either side. While I will NOT vote republican in the GE.......I may stay at home.


p.s. this coming from someone who is not, particularly, a Hillary supporter!

But the primary, and the way this is played out, just makes me go back to Clinton more and more. I believe it’s important to fight corporate greed and disagree with Clinton on some issues, but I just don’t like how dismissive people are about sexism and homophobia, I just don’t like it. This is particularly the case with the younger generation, as a young person, I know what it’s like to be told how being politically incorrect is cool and right, and these kind of sentiments are often associated with those independent or republican young voters who will opt for Obama because Hillary is the devil. I just don’t like what Obama represents and the supporters who are associated with him.

I feel like I am being run over by another male crowd that is telling me to “get with the program” and my own personal plight as a marginalized minority is dismissed as not bieng important, this is what i feel when Clinton is attacked everytime for being where she is simply because she is just a wife.

Clinton's campaign and saying some questionable things? Many Dems have decried his actions recently.

More like disappointment, babylon! I watch the news obsessively. What the Clinton's said was taken WAYYYYYYYYYYY out of context and made to look like something it was not. Granted, the media had a lot to do with that.

I heard and saw the comments about MLK and Johnson. I've heard and seen what B. Clinton said. Sorry.......but I do not see the "racial slurs" these comments were made out to be by Clyburn and others.

I do see a concerted effort by the Dem power brokers to diminish Hillary and raise Obama. I find that offensive, even though I was not going to vote Hillary in the primaries. I am just old enough to see sexism for what it is.

solely criticizing Bill for racism. He's inserting himself obnoxiously into a campaign where he shouldn't be, at least to the extent he's been involved.

It's Bill's inuendo that might be bothering people (and that's subjective, I suppose), but he's also not showing a lot of regard for our party. That could be what people find so offensive. Bill is not helping his wife, at least from what I'm seeing.

Finally, thanks for your thoughtful response.

within the Democratic machinery and traditional power brokers

However, things are different this time, because a lot more demographics are at work, and anything can happen

There is a very real possibility that this could be a brokered convention

fun to watch.

Looks like Hillary will win in a landslide in Florida. Hahaha to Obama and Edwards for being too dumb to run there. Way to go Hillary for snookering them!! If you insist on playing by the rules, you just shouldn't be in politics.

and then it is anyones game, even someone who isn't a leading candidate

The people who support the other candidate have access to TV - we see that is buttholes like Scarbrough and Matthews. But the real true blue Americans still have the say so and Hillary is the say so.....Illinois and a couple of more southern states maybe but that's it.

I have never cared who endorsed any candidate in all my years of voting. I have always voted for the person who I liked best, regardless of whose endorsement they had received. I don't think that I'm the exception, the average person who's not 100% into politics doesn't pay attention to these kinds of things. The exception this year was Oprah, but even she couldn't win NH for Obama. So, Teddy's endorsement is a big plus for Obama but, outside of MA, I don't think that latinos or union people will all of the sudden decide to vote for Obama in droves just because Teddy endorses him.

Who knows, I could be wrong.......

As for Hillary, I agree with you. I think that when the dust settles she will get the nomination, even if it probably won't be decided until way after Feb. 5th.