Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

South Carolina was not a good litmus test for Obama.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:18 PM
Original message
South Carolina was not a good litmus test for Obama.


I am certainly no fan of Pat Buchanan, but what he said this morning made sense to me, and should have the Obama campaign quite concerned. Yes, it's true Obama smoked Hillary in S.C.. However, it is also true that, while He got roughly 75 percent of the African American vote, Hillary received almost 75 percent of the white vote. Since more than half of the registered democrats in S.C. are African American, it's no real surprise how the primary played out. That is just a reality.

If this is the trend, then it could be a Clinton route, come Super Tuesday. Either way, I don't believe my interests will be represented.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Both have to campaign hard.
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 02:20 PM by AX10
SC told us nothing about 2/5. Florida will give us a better idea of what 2/5 will look like.
SC has an unusual demographic make-up that does not represent the majority of the nation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Florida won't tell us crap.
Florida has no delegates and is being ignored by everyone but Hillary.

Let me amend that. Florida tells us that Hillary won't play by the party's rules.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. you may want to delete this thread
John Edwards won the white vote in South Carolina not Hillary

If hillary hangs on it will be a miracle not a rout and in any case not a route
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Hillary received 75% of the white vote?" She got like 36%. Edwards won whites.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Edwards won that vote? I thought he came in second with whites. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Nope. He won white males and whites overall. Hillary won white females. Barack won all women.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. I'm terribly sorry. You are correct. Edwards DID win the largest
percentage of white democratic voters. Obama won 24 percent. of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Yep. The Big Lie.
25% of the white vote(I'm breaking my own rule of not falling into the bullshit race/demographic breakdown) in a three-way race is virtually breaking even.

:banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. Sorry Edwards led the white vote, HIll second, Obama third
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Pointless.
It might mean something if he received less than 10%.

Bullshit-Divide-And-Conquer-Nonsense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. one day
they'll campaign and Hillary will get more delegates than Obama. Someday. Maybe Tuesday.

But the proportional system works to Obama's favor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Clinton did NOTget 75% of the white vote. She got 36%.
Did you forget that Edwards was in the race? He came in second among whites.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hillary got 75% of the white vote?
When? Did you forget about John Edwards? He won the White vote over Hillary.

Let's not forget than Obama and Hillary were pretty much neck to neck in the white vote in New Hampshire and Iowa.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I wonder if Pat Buchanan said that. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
32. No he did not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
George_Bonanza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. What the hell? 75% for Hillary?!
Hillary did not get 75% of the White vote; she got around 35%, while Edwards got 40%. In a three-way race, the White vote was more or less split three ways (40-35-25), with the tilt going to Edwards. Wouldn't you expect a colour-blind demographic to split 3 ways? And Obama got 50% of the under-30 White vote.

Plus, the Blackness of South Carolina is arguably balanced by the conservativeness of the Whites. In other states, there are fewer Blacks, but there are also fewer Confederate flag-waving Whites.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. The overwhelming percentage of Confederate-flag-waving whites
even in South Carolina are known as Republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. There are still a good number of yellow-dogs left.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. "Yellow Dog" Democrats vote for any Democrat on the ticket, even
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 03:04 PM by Benhurst
a yellow dog.

That isn't the issue here. I would say a high proportion of DU members are Yellow Dog Democrats, hence all the talk of uniting behind our nominee no matter who or she may be.

You may have been thinking of "Dixiecrats." As for such Confederate-flag-waving whites, most have moved into the Republican party down here, no matter how it may seem in Chicago.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. No, actually, I do mean yellow dogs. Yellow dogs
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 03:10 PM by Occam Bandage
are a purely Southern phenomenon; the term has never been used to describe northern Democrats. They are generally more conservative; they vote Democrat due to party loyalty, not because they're particularly liberal. And there are still a good number of them left.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. There sure aren't many left in my area. And not in my generation.
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 03:23 PM by Benhurst
I'm a baby boomer like Barack Obama, but an older one, at the beginning of the generation, not at its tail end.

You ought to come down. You might be surprised.

Yes, of course the term Yellow Dog Democrat" originated in the South. But I have more Irish-American friends in Massachusetts who follow the tradition of voting the straight ticket than I friends who do so down here.

Strom Thurmond and the new Republican Party (little more than the old Dixiecrat Party without sheets) have converted most, and natural attrition has taken care of the rest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. One would hope that if Obama can get 24% of whites in a southern state
he might fare even better with whites in the rest of the country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Well, as the old saying goes
"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride."

We can only hope.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
41. a very interesting stat is Obama got 50% of whites under 30
Does this indicate a generational shift of attitude towards race?



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. Pat lies. The three split the white vote: JE:40% HC: 36% BO: 25%
Or thereabouts. In other words, each of the candidates had a "white vote" problem in that none of them captured a majority.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. Think about it in this way: if Obama didn't win over the AA vote in a big way, Buchanan and
everybody else would be saying "well, if he doesn't carry the black constituency, he is not a viable democratic candidate in the South." Nothing is decided.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Omega3 Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. or stated another way
BO got 25% of the white vote
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. Yoo hoo - remember Iowa!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. why pay attention to a poster like you who can't even get the
most basic facts straight. Fucking absurd. She didn't even get the MAJORITY of the white vote. Furthermore, genius, in a three way race with one of the candidates being a native son in a state where the confederate flag still flies on statehouse grounds, Obama got 25% of the white vote.

Try again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
adabfree Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. WHAT BUCHANAN SAID...
was Obama lost 75% OF THE WHITE VOTE..it's between Hill and Edwards...not all to Hillary.

Buchanan wants Hillary to be the Nom...he bashes Obama and praise the Clinton machine every chance he gets!

Think about why he does it...lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. And Clinton lost 64% of the white vote. Big deal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. More simply
the litmus test is hardly relevant to the momentum plus and the convincing stats overall. parsin breakdowns are better tested on Super Tuesday. Then everyone will have their hands full unless someone crushes someone overall. Then there will be a whole new load of BS to downplay the Dems and a lot of hard drinking GOP pundits behind the scenes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
24. You, or Pat Buchanan, need to get your facts straight.

Hillary did NOT get 75 percent of the white vote.

Barack got around 25 percent of the white vote, while Edwards won the white vote with something like 40 percent, and Hillary was close behind Edwards.

Hillary won only one segment of voters, those 65 and older.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/26/sc.primary/index.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. Hillary's biggest margin of victory is 5%, Obama's is 28%
There will be a route on Super Tuesday, by Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Omega3 Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. where do you come up with that???????
none of the polls say that, quite the opposite........
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. I am not talking about polls. I am talking about the results we have
from states that have already voted in the primaries.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

The polls have been WAY off in every state so far this primary season.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. deleted
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 04:21 PM by harun
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. If only half of the AA vote in SC had turned out, Obama still would have won
The Clinton camp would like to brush off the weekend primary in South Carolina as not really that representative because so many African Americans voted. That in essence was what former president Bill Clinton was saying when he dismissed Illinois Sen. Barack Obama’s victory over New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton by comparing it to Jesse Jackson’s victories in South Carolina during his runs for the presidency in the 1980s.

But in fact, the numbers don’t bear that out. If half as many black voters turned out, Obama still would have beaten Clinton, albeit not by as large a margin. Let’s say, for instance, that African American voters represented just 20 percent of the total electorate in South Carolina instead of the 55 percent they did — closer to, say, their share of the New York Democratic electorate. Assuming each candidate won the same proportionate support within each racial group, then Obama still would have won the primary with 34.6 percent of the overall vote to 32.6 percent for Clinton and 32.4 percent for former North Carolina senator John Edwards.

The reason is that Obama did pretty well among white voters as well. He received 24 percent of the white vote compared with 36 percent for Clinton, according to exit polls sponsored by The Washington Post and other news organizations. So even if the white vote were much larger, as in our scenario above, he would be close enough to Clinton that his overwhelming advantage among African Americans (he won 78 percent of the black vote to her 19 percent) would still be enough to put him over the top.


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/28/crunching_the_south_carolina_n.html#more

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
27. Hillary did not get 75% of the white vote!!!! She got 36% of the white vote,
behind Edwards who got 40% of the white vote. So Edwards got more of the white vote than Hillary did. Obama got 25% of the white vote. Please stop spreading mis-information
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. The Big states coming up could not care less what happened in SC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. and the other half is white
and he took 55%, I'm an Edwards supporter and I think Obama did well, really well. Buchanan is being an asshole because he thinks Hillary will be a weaker general election candidate that will help the GOP down ticket at the very least and galvanize the GOP base more
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 16th 2024, 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC