Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I thought I would post this when there was not too much traffic.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
pennylane100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:30 AM
Original message
I thought I would post this when there was not too much traffic.
I have reluctantly changed my support from Edwards to Obama.
I like all three candidates, and will support any of them that wins the democratic primary. I have also stopped, mostly, reading all the threads that denigrate any of the candidates. However, what finally changed my mind was the belief that Obama is the true ANTI-WAR candidate.

That being said, I am not going to smear or denigrate any of the other candidates, that is not what we, as good Democrat's should do. I hope that the best person wins, but from now on, I am an OBAMA GIRL.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sorry to see you go. Edwards is the only one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. I am sorry to hear that. I believe that John is the candidate with the most integrity and the
only one with a real plan to get us out of Iraq quickly. I hope you did your research.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pennylane100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. While I may have not done all the research I should have done,
I rem ber, before the primaries started, I vowed that I would support any candidate that did not support the war, and I have come to believe the Obama is the only candidate that would qualify for under that category.

While I know that Edwards has totally repudiated his originally vote, I have to think that at the time, I was reading very credible material that Bush was not being honest about WMD and he Edwards, and Hillary, had access to the same material on the internet. I very much appreciate his honesty on his mistake, I am not sure Hillary has done the same but I now have come to believe the Obama would not have made that mistake.

I feel that the only way to honor the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and the thousands of americans who have died based on a lie is to vote for someone who did not trust the psychotic leader who lead us down this path to destruction
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Obama himself stated that he does not know how he would have voted had he been in the Senate at the
time.He has since voted for every Iraq funding bill and claimed Joe Lieberman as his mentor But you are correect he did not vote for the IWAR. He did not have a vote.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Obama NEVER said he would have voted for it had he been in the senate.....
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 02:45 AM by FrenchieCat
this is what he did say...right before he was going to speak at the convention, as he appeared on MTP, and Russert was trying to get Obama to basically say that Kerry/Edwards were wrong on their votes--Obama refused the bait, thank you!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Summary: Interviewing Barack Obama on Meet the Press, Tim Russert read a quote he attributed to Obama to suggest that he has "not been a leader against the war": "In July of 2004, Barack Obama: 'I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. ... What would I have done? I don't know,' in terms of how you would have voted on the war." ]Russert did not quote the very next sentence of Obama's statement, which was, "What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made" for authorizing the war.

At the time....
The Times also reported that Obama "declined to criticize Senators Kerry and Edwards for voting to authorize the war, although he said he would not have done the same based on the information he had at the time":
http://mediamatters.org/items/200711110004



THE FACT CHECKER


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/01/obama_and_iraq.html#more

As the keynote speaker, Obama was trying to be loyal to the Democratic nominees, John Kerry and John Edwards, both of whom had voted in favor of the war authorization resolution, along with Hillary Clinton.

In an interview reported by the New York Times on July 26, on the first day of the convention, he reiterated his opposition to the war but declined to criticize Kerry and Edwards, saying he was "not privy to Senate intelligence reports."

He then continued: "What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."

(The Clinton campaign left out that important last sentence when it e-mailed reporters with backup material for the inconsistency claim, which was also made by Hillary Clinton in the televised debate Saturday night.)

In an interview published in the Chicago Tribune the following day (July 27,2004), Obama said that he would have voted "no" on the Senate resolution. But he said he was not in favor of "pulling out now." On the issue of whether to stay in Iraq , he said "there's not much of a difference between my position and George Bush's position at this stage." The context of his remarks makes clear that he was not referring to the original decision to go into Iraq, but the question of whether to remain.

His views on whether to stay in Iraq have changed, of course, as he now advocates a phased withdrawal.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/01/obama_and_iraq.html#more



so because we had candidates that had voted for that fucked up IWR, Obama, not wanting to EMBARASS THE NOMINEES, stayed vague to a degree.

THANK YOU, BARACK OBAMA.


Desperate in NH: Fibbing About Obama and Iraq?
Campaigning in Dover, New Hampshire the day before the primary, Senator Hillary Clinton once again pounded Barack Obama for being big on talk and small on deeds. And before a crowd that could barely fill half of a modest-sized gymnasium, she continued to claim that Obama is a disingenuous politician, no noble and inspiring force of change. Using the thin opposition research her campaign operatives have managed to unearth on her rival, she recited what's becoming the campaign's regular litany of Obama's alleged hypocrisies. Saying you oppose the Patriot Act and then voting to extend it—"that's not change," she declared. Saying you're against special interest lobbying and then having a lobbyist co-chair your New Hampshire campaign—"that's not change," she thundered. Saying in a campaign speech that you will not vote to fund the Iraq war and then voting for $300 billion in war financing—"that's not change," she exclaimed. After the event, in an interview with Fox News, Clinton was even sharper. She referred to Obama's (and John Edwards') "hypocrisy," and said, "Senator Obama has changed many of his positions." Voters, she insisted, deserved to know this: "Talk is, as they say, cheap."

Her charges against Obama have generally been weak—standard truth-stretchers for standard political campaigns. But in casting Obama as a phony on the Iraq war, Clinton has veered close to outright lying.

Yesterday, in an interview with CNN, Clinton said:

If someone is going to claim that by their very words they are making change, then if those words say... I'm against the war in Iraq and I'll never vote for funding and then, when they go to the Senate, they vote for 300 billion dollars' worth of funding , I think it's time for people to say, "Wait a minute, let's get real here." There's a big difference between talking and acting, between rhetoric and reality.

Did Obama actually vow, as Clinton said, to never vote for funds for the Iraq war? If he had, he would indeed be a major promise-breaker—and a fraud on a critical issue for Democratic voters. This was a powerful allegation.

I sent an email to a Clinton spokesperson who specializes in opposition research, asking for a citation to back up this charge. He quickly replied with a link for a page on a Clinton campaign website that contains a quote from a speech Obama delivered in November 2003, when he was running for Senate:

Just this week, when I was asked, would I have voted for the $87 billion dollars , I said no. I said no unequivocally because, at a certain point, we have to say no to George Bush. If we keep on getting steamrolled, we are not going to stand a chance.
Is it possible to read that statement as a promise never to vote for Iraq war funds? Not by any reasonable interpretation. In fact, during Obama's Senate campaign, he explained his opposition to this particular war funding bill in detail. From a September 29, 2003 Obama press release:

Obama challenged the Congress to 'stand up to the misplaced priorities of this Administration' by delaying the $87 billion for Iraq until the President provides a specific plan and timetable for ending the U.S. occupation, justifies each and every dollar to ensure it is not going to reward Bush political friends and contributors, and provides 'investment in our own schools, health care, economic development and job creation that is at least comparable' to what is going to Iraq. 'It's not just Iraq that needs rebuilding. It's America, too,' Obama said.

Perhaps as an opponent of the Iraq war, Obama could have been expected to vote against funds for the war once he reached the Senate. But he, like Clinton (who now opposes the war) and other Senate Democrats, have continually voted for funds, while attempting (albeit unsuccessfully) to attach conditions and timetables to that funding. Because Clinton cannot attack Obama on the policy—given that they have voted the same—she has accused him of being a hypocrite. But where was the beef?

I sent the Clinton oppo guy a follow-up email:

I looked at the quote . He was clearly speaking about the $87 billion package. But what Sen. Clinton told CNN was that Obama said, "I'll never vote for funding." He doesn't say that in the quote. Was she accurately quoting him?
I received no response.

As Hillary Clinton was leaving Dover, I attempted to put the question to her. She had just finished the interview with Fox and another with a local station. Inside the gym, I was two feet away from her. "Can I ask you one question about Iraq and Senator Obama?" I inquired. She looked at me for a nanosecond and walked away.

During her speech to supporters at Dover, Clinton said, that it's important to disseminate information on all the candidates "so voters can make a well-informed decision.... I will do whatever I can to make sure voters have the information they need." But ascertaining that this information is accurate is apparently not on her to-do list.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/01/6786_desperate_in_nh_1.html



Responding to Clinton’s attack on Iraq

IRAQ: Obama Consistently Opposed the Iraq War.
In January of 2005, Obama criticized Condoleezza Rice for not offering a timetable for withdrawal;

in February he criticized the Administration’s policy in Iraq while praising our troops;

in May and June, he called security in Iraq “horrible” and criticized the Administration for linking the 9/11 attacks and the war in Iraq;

and in October and November, he called for a phased withdrawal of our troops, saying that we should “get out as soon as we can.”

Obama called for a phased withdrawal of our troops in November of 2005 and voted for an amendment stating that the US should not “stay in Iraq indefinitely.”

He consistently called for troop withdrawal throughout 2006, and voted for a resolution in June urging the President to begin troop withdrawal during 2006.

Obama spoke out against the surge the same night Bush announced it, and introduced his bill to end the war at the end of January, which would have prohibited the surge and set a timetable for withdrawal of all combat troops by the end of March 2008.

That bill became the template for the Democratic caucus’ position.

IRAQ: Obama Has Consistently Opposed A Blank Check for Iraq.

Since Obama came to Washington in January of 2005, every single Senate Democrat has voted for every single Iraq funding bill that has come to the Senate floor until President Bush vetoed a timetable for withdrawal.

After that, Obama voted against funding for the war, stating that “This vote is a choice between validating the same failed policy in Iraq that has cost us so many lives and demanding a new one…We should not give the President a blank check to continue down this same, disastrous path. With my vote today, I am saying to the President that enough is enough. We must negotiate a better plan that funds our troops, signals to the Iraqis that it is time for them to act and that begins to bring our brave servicemen and women home safely and responsibly.”

IRAQ: Clinton Continues to Unfairly Truncate Obama’s Quote on Iraq. Below is the full excerpt from the New York Times:

He opposed the war in Iraq, and spoke against it during a rally in Chicago in the fall of 2002. He said then that he saw no evidence that Iraq had unconventional weapons that posed a threat, or of any link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. “In a recent interview, he declined to criticize Senators Kerry and Edwards for voting to authorize the war, although he said he would not have done the same based on the information he had at the time.

“‘But, I’m not privy to Senate intelligence reports,’ Mr. Obama said. ‘What would I have done? I don’t know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made.’

“But Mr. Obama said he did fault Democratic leaders for failing to ask enough tough questions of the Bush administration to force it to prove its case for war. ‘What I don’t think was appropriate was the degree to which Congress gave the president a pass on this,’ he said.”
http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-memo-on-clintons-mtp-iraq-statements/






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. saracat, I applaud your allegiance,
but do you really think Edwards has a prayer of a shot? The numbers aren't saying that. I know there are many Edwards supporters here, I've never denigrated them, but realistically, does he have a chance?

If not, who do you think he'd throw his support behind, and would you listen?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. No. I would NOT support anyone else. Sorry. There is still a possibility of a win
or at least a brokered convention where he could influence the platform.I had more to say but will not .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. Welcome aboard. I like all three, but Obama has been my choice since Iowa.
:bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
4. Great Choice!!
Welcome aboard the LOVE TRAIN !! :grouphug: DC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Rec'd. He has a lot going for him. He's beloved, he's anti-war, he
wants a change and lots of improvement; yes, we can, if we try! It's time to try. :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
10. You will find more and more to love
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
12. Welcome!
You've made the right decision.

As much research as I have done on this man, it is all good. He's the genuine article. You can help make history happen. We need you!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iris5426 Donating Member (697 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. Very sorry to hear that...
Edwards, in my mind, is still the strongest anti war candidate...and stands the strongest on all the other important issues...I hope you've truly done your research to come to that conclusion, because I respectfully disagree...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. You've made this fellow Brit very sad ... I'm going to see John
in San Jose on Friday and I couldn't be more excited. I know I will be even more committed to his cause. I'm very sorry to hear you've given up on John.
:cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
15. How refreshing to read a post like yours.
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 05:14 AM by Window
Not because of who you support, but the fact that you do not denigrate the other Democratic candidates.

I, too, like all three...to varying degrees, but I admire and respect all three.

Welcome Obama Girl from Obama Mama. LOL!


Peace:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
16. Another one!

Impossible to fathom how Edwards could be lagging so far behind with all the "support" he has had.

:rofl:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
2hip Donating Member (350 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. Just curious
Are you a "single issue" voter?


KEEP THE MOMENTUM GOING!


New Grassroots Fund Drive—Donate NOW!

(Please give the above link a kick for John!)


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 16th 2024, 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC