Do you want to see Howard Dean ousted as DNC Chairman?

That is my guess. They will probably want someone more DLC friendly in.

They'll have to work it out if it comes to that.

She and her DLC buddies---along with her campaign guy Terry McCaullife (who was the DNC chair back then) were instrumental in helping to bring Dean down--it wasn't only the "so-called" scream that played a part in his losing campaign. The DLC'ers wanted to nip Dean's movement of the people in the bud, and they did. This time, they let their hubris get the better of them, and were caught off gard.

When are the Clinton supporters going to see their backstabbing nature. They will do anything to hold the reigns of power.

I voted for, supported and defended BIll and Hill Clinton thru all their years in the White House---but NO MORE. They HAD their chance.

I am a 62 year old white woman who has had ENOUGH of them. I started in Democratic politics at age 15--walking door- to -door for Jack Kennedy. I am ready for a New Generation of Democrats to take over. Heaven knows this generation is inheriting a unholy mess from us. It will take young hearts and minds to bring us out of this abyss.

GOBAMA!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I was a Dean supporter in 2004 and I voted yesterday for Hillary. You're personal opinion on the Clintons and my TRUE support credentials is meaningless.

Dean has done some good things and he's screwed up a few times, but I think he should stick around. Why break in an new person?

I called Democrats in Iowa and they are upset about his politics.

First he said, he was for the war but would say it differently than Bush. I heard he and Edwards on the National Press Club announce their run for Presidents together. Then he lied and said he opposed it.

He declared before union members that he would not change his mind about NAFTA. It was good for them. They looked angry.

We remember what we hear not what they want us to.

He wants war, globalism, etc.

what the fuck are you talking about?

He's done great stuff, and we all make mistakes.

This "HRC is going to dump howard" is more BS from the Obama camp.

It's nothing personal, but either Barak or Hillary will want someone who they know and is loyal to them.

Rahm (DCCC) and Dean got into a bitter fight over fund placement in 2006. Rahm's best friend is David Axelrod. David had the media contract with DCCC in 2005-2006.

Rahm is hiding under his desk while secretly supporting Obama. Rahm has been the anonymous source of many of the anti-Bill Clinton stories. Chicago inside power politics.

If Hillary is elected Dean might get to stay. If Obama is elected he won't.

Hillary, Obama, and Emanuel are all from the Chicago area?

my two cents...

imagine that

what are YOU thinking, another yet again dirty politics by Hillary.

You guys will fail miserably.

but want Dean gone.

we can look forward to another 12 years of Republican control of both houses in 2010.

Eight years has been too many.

'YES' - I AM A DEMOCRAT a choice.

You are for Obama and his globlization,Faith Based cronyism, unending war on terrorism agenda? He is so "inspired" as to not demand impeachment of Bush and Cheney?

What has he done since he was in office but give good speeches? Most likely written by someone else. To give "inspiration" is good but leave that to ministers, weight councilors, etc. We need real solutions not vague promises.

That Senator (on the powerful Intelligence Committee) who was falsely accused of murdering a campaign worker was replaced by Obama right after he came to DC. The girl's body was found dead in the park by someone's dog. They previously combed that part with dogs.

Usually you wait for seniority. Obama was picked like Colin Powell to lead but not make the real decisions (made by the eliter few).

you're bashing.

And your delusional babbling about dead girls and Colin Powell is a stong indication that you need very serious help.

Seek it. You are in dire need of it.

I voted for him to be Senator to bring "change". He has not. Read his record "crumpt".

First you establish the basis in fact by judiciary hearings, then in law - or by a court finding. You do not impeachment in not starting a fishing expedition.

He used to be our DU hero. Now, because he's upholding the rules about the primaries, some people want to get rid of him. With friends like that, he doesn't need enemies.

and Republicans. Not mine.

detest him. So does the DLC.

His 50-state strategy prevented us from gaining a dominant (near filibuster-proof) position in the Senate, and a much bigger lead in the the House.

Dean is/was a disaster.

not Dean. It was Emmanuel who was pushing the more centrist Dems who lost in the general over the progressives who were more popular within their states and might have won.

David Axelrod = DCCC media contractor under Rahm.

David Axelrod = Obama's brain.

Obama = Fifteen year Axelrod "project for the presidency".

Rahm/Axelrod/Obama = Chicago

Guess they are students of Neo Con Leo Strauss. They believe themselves to be "elite" and destroy democracy. Rumsfeld, Hillary Clinton, Obama, Emmauel, etc.

It's that Midwest clean personality image? Not a whole lot of people in the Chicago area go to college like the East and West coasts of the country. The ones who do think they are above everyone else. I've never seen such arrogance. They are part of that world.

Rahm knocked progressive candidates out of races to push centrists. Case in point was the Tammy Duckworth. He poured millions into her failed campaign,

“Yet, as they contemplate political ruin in next year's election, these Republicans can take solace in the fact that, if defeated, their replacements may not differ in any meaningful way on important issues of the day. That at least is the hope and dream of Democratic apparatchik Rahm Emmanuel and the corporate toadies he represents. Ominously, Emmanuel, a relict of the Clinton White House, heads the Democratic National Campaign Committee.

As such, he decides which candidates for the House should get money and other support from the national party. At a time when any fool can see that the public hates the war more this month than last, and will hate it even more next month and the month after that, Emmanuel is doing his best to recruit candidates, preferably rich ones, guaranteed to eschew vocal opposition to the war.

Clear evidence for this proclivity is evident in the race to succeed Henry Hyde, in Chicago's 6th District.

In the last election progressive candidate Christine Cegalis actually got 44.2 per cent of the vote against the sixteen-term Hyde, despite being outspent $700,000 to $160,000 in a conservative district with no elected Democrats at all.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/andrew12092005.html

“Following this commendable showing, Cegalis figured that with Hyde retiring and the Republicans melting down, she stood a better than even chance of garnering the seat in 2006.

However it seems that in Emmanuel's opinion, Cegalis stinks. Never mind that excellent record against the giant Hyde, forget her well-crafted support network in the Chicago district, Cegalis has not yet raised a million dollars and, even more damningly, she is calling for troop withdrawal from Iraq. So Emmanuel set out to recruit a more suitable candidate. Initially, he approached two millionaires and urged them, serially, to run against Cegalis in the primary.

They refused. Now he is pinning his hopes on a double amputee women Iraq veteran, Tammy Duckworth

Duckworth, who is not from the district, has ignited hopes at DCCC headquarters that she would campaign on a "pro-business/centrist platform". Queried by a Chicago Sun Times columnist for her opinion on the war, she replied, "There's good and bad in everything". Cont…

I love the way Obama supporters and the media have their head in the sand (otherwise known as denial) about the role Rahm is playing in this election.

The Chicago Tribune candidate. A media picked the candidate for President. Imagine that!

in the primary (with DLC help and propaganda) she and they announced they were pro-amnesty. Forget that would have been defeated in the primary if voters were given a chance to discuss and vote on it. Then the Republicans and many Democrats voted against Democrats in the state fearing amnesty.

It was the reason we lost seats in Congress so we would have a clear win and power. It was voter manipulation within the party to keep the pro-war and amnesty policy.

both houses because of his strategy yeah not overwelming in the senate but still the majority, he can't help that a few dems always vote with the repukes

see it. We should have had a comfortable majority. The country was ready for Progressive Democrats.

Had the 50 state strategy been in place in the years before 2004, Kerry would be running for re-election right now.

Same with 2000 and Gore.

The COLLAPSED PARTY INFRASTRUCTURE that was the result of the DNC's policies from 1996 thru 2004 election assured the RNC would gain control of the election process at every level where the votes are allowed, cast and counted.

If resources were allocated based on needs in close elections, rather than spread out among all states including both lost causes and easy wins, we might have picked up 3 or 4 more Senate seats.

Of course I can't prove it (politics is not a laboraory where I can manipulate variables to find different outcomes.) But Dean acted like a marketing manager spending money to sell ice to the Eskimos and winter clothing to Hawaiians. You have to spend money and resources where it will do the most good.

There is a reason no one ever tried a 50-state strategy - it's an incredibly dumb idea.

party infrastructures in states like Florida and Ohio Gore and Kerry and Democratic voters in those states would have had their votes counted.

Gore and Kerry both won. Collapsed state party infrastucture strategy of Bill Clinton's DNC from 1996 thru 2004 assured the RNC's dominant position in those states and other swing states.

The 50 state strategy is one that might be employed when the Democratic party had a substantial lead in both houses, to cement that lead for a generation. THAT would be the time to look to try to nurture the party in Idaho and Utah and all the other areas in which Dean wasted money during the 2006 campaign.

If Ohio and Florida were important battlegrounds, he should spend a disproportionate amount there... stop spending money, for example, in Massachusetts (easy wins) or Alabama (lost causes.)

by their negligence.

No doubt deliberate from everything I've learned about Hillary2008.

I'd rather deal with facts.

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Whom does the biographer think his subject will pick as a running mate? Not Hillary Rodham Clinton. Audio Link"There's really two different Democratic parties right now: there's the Clintons and Terry McAuliffe and the DNC and then there's the Kerry upstarts. John Kerry had one of the great advantages in life by being considered to get the nomination in December. He watched every Democrat in the country flee from him, and the Clintons really stick the knife in his back a bunch of times, so he's able to really see who was loyal to him and who wasn't. That's a very useful thing in life."

Or how about Woodward's observations about election night? You think a few lawyers hadn't vetted this story before it was published?


http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


>>>>>>
On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.
Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.

>>>>>>

You coincidence theorists require amazing faith to continue in your devotion.

I think it was his failure to believe that the role of the DNC was to elect Democrats.

He was insufficiently interested in winning elections, and far more interested in serving his state Democratic Party organizations, and so he 'spread the wealth' - whether the state needed the funds to win elections or not, in order to cement his position as DNC chair.

In other words, Dean served himself with DNC funds, rather than Democratic candidates. It's not that Dean is/was incompetent, he was aiming for the wrong target in a self-serving way. I think you drank the Kool-Aid of the 50 state strategy... and you're still convinced that Dean acted in the interests of the party.

The Democratic Party (prior to Dean) dusted itself off every two years for the Election, then went back to sleep. It is simply not possible -- as has been shown by the resurgence of the Republicans throughout the 1980's and 1990's and by the impotence of the Democrats during the same period -- to build a party through spasmodic efforts directed only at "winning the next election."

Dean's strategy is to build a national party with a coherent, national message. His strategy is about building party infrastructure, getting experienced candidates at the local level (think school board and county commissioner) who will become the next generation of Democratic candidate for Governor and Congress. It's a long-term process that spans four-five election cycles. If we allow ourselves to be distracted by every Election Day that comes along, the work will never get done.

And it's working. We're winning elections at the local level in places (like the Carolinas) where Democrats never stood a chance before. And even where we're NOT winning -- Holy Crap! Gary Trauner missed taking Dick Cheney's old House seat in Wyoming by 1,012 votes. Wyoming! The 50-State Strategy forces the Republicans to invest in every race in every state -- it stretches their resources (i.e., their advertising budgets) to the breaking point and severely limits their ability to lie to the voters on a mass scale. What do you see today? The Republican Party is ridiculously underfunded, and there are few places in the country were the Democarats aren't competetive.

So count me as a "Hell NO" in the OP's poll.

How in the hell did Dean enforce this "coherence." What is that message? LMAO.

At least you agree that Dean had little interest in winning elections, and a lot of interest in building his power base.

I work in the trenches of the Democratic Party. Because of Howard Dean, SE Wisconsin has a DNC Coordinator (which we've never had before), who makes sure that Democrats across six counties are communicating and working together. I live in Waukesha County -- the biggest source of Republican votes in a the state. With the assistance of the DNC, we're getting organized out here. We elected a Democratic Mayor in Waukesha last year.

And with regard to building a "power base," would you care to back up with anything resembling a concrete example -- or is some shit-stained accuastion all you brought to the table? As soon as the presidential campaign began in earnest last year, Dean has been all but incognito -- he doesn't show up every night on CNN or MSNBC and he's shown no interest in being a "kingmaker" in the 2008 Primary.

All Dean has done break records in fund-raising and make the Democratic Party competetive in every state -- the Governor of Kansas is a Democrat -- and establish a base for a veto-proof majority in Congress. We're going to go from losing control of the White House and Congress under Terry McAuliffe to regaining control of the White House and Congress, and people like you are going to carp and find fault.

Until you can do better, shut the fuck up.

On McAuliffe's watch under your logic.

The worst midterm in a generation for Democrats. Mr McAuliffe must be a genius.

And Jim Webb?
And Steve Beshear?

And dozens of other Democrats who won in Republican states?

The simple fact is that today there's not a race or an office in any state that isn't within our reach. McAuliffe's strategy (if you can call it that) was to write off whole swaths of the country -effectively disenfrachising every liberal and Democratic voter in the process - in hope that we could win a handful of battleground states. Worked really well in 2000 and 2004 didn't it?

What Dean has created is his own power base. The SE Wisconsin area didn't need a DNC coordinator, any more than the Mobile Bay area of Alabama. It's a power grab by Dean, and your justification... that we're "getting organized here" is classic bureaucratic nonsense.

There a good saying from Tip O'Neill... "all politics is local." If you think what the Democratic party needs more layers of bureaucracy, direction from Washington on a coherent message (LOL) and massive expenditures on a new building you are part of the problem.

What we need are great candidates, and well-funded campaigns where it matters, not message discipline from Washington.

Care to give me an example of Howard Dean building a power base? I gave you examples of success and get nothing in return. "We're getting organized" means simply this -- in the most heavily Republican county in the state of Wisconsin, and against a well-funded and highly organized and motivated Republican opponent, Gov. Jim Doyle did better in Waukesha County in his 2006 re-election than he did in 2002. Bureaucratic Nonsense? No. Try documented results.

And even your own attempt at logic (and invoking Tip O'Neill) doesn't make sense. All Politics Is Local, you say? I agree. That's why the DNC is sending out field coordinators to every state to organize locally. What Dean has done is to decentralize the Party and to stop relying on inside-the-beltway consultants. Most of whom (like James Carville) are pissed that they no longer get to play God and pontificate from their K Street offices -- and collect fat retainers.

The 50-State Strategy is for the long haul. All of those new Democrats in Congress? They would be at risk of being pushed right back out the door after their first tirm -- think people like Steve Kagen in Wisconsin and Zack Space in Ohio. But because we've been building party infrastructure for the past two years, people like them are going to have a STRONGER party behind them in 2008 than when there were the challenger. This strategy protects the incumbents and makes it easier to recruit those "great candidates" that you say we need.

Hey, I spent twenty years living in Cincinnati, where the Democratic Party was a weak kitten. If you wanted to run for office, you were pretty much on your own -- you had to be the candidate and the party because the party was so enemic. Every candidate had to start from scratch -- like finding sources for yard signs and cobbling together voting lists. It was damn near impossible to win an election there. In some elections, nearly half the races didn't even have Democratic challengers because nobody wanted to get their ass kicked in what was going to be a hopeless cause.

And now? Ohio went from every state office being held by Republicans (which by your logic would have written it off completely) to having every state office held by Democrats. They're now within striking distance of a Democratic Majority in their Congressional Delegation (getting Jean Schmidt and Steve Chabot out of Congress would be sweet beyond belief). Not only has Ohio been a beneficiary of the 50-State Strategy, but State Party Chair Chris Redfern has adopted an "88-County Strategy" on the state level.

Let me repeat. The 50-State Strategy is a long-term process. We probably didn't win as many seats in 2006 as we might have otherwise. But the seats that we did win are going to remain in Democratic hands, and the party is going to be strong in 2008. And 2010. And 2012.

By the by, if you're not participating in the Neighborhood Leader program, get off your ass and sign up for it. You want local politics -- this is it.

since Dean and Emanuel are both pro-ME war.

I think if you'll check the record, Howard Dean was clearly anti-war.

In a 2003 speech to the California Democratic Convention, Dean started with "What I want to know is what in the world so many Democrats are doing supporting the President's unilateral intervention in Iraq?"

Get your facts straight.

I heard him support war on the National Press Club along with Edwards. He said, he didn't like the way Bush said it and would go about it differently but he did support it. Get the tape and listen to it.

So if he was anti-war why didn't he give financial or physical support to Progressive Democratic anti-war Illinois candidates in 2006? Not a peep.

hates Bush? Excuses, excuses, excuses and billions of contributions down the tubes not to mention our democracy.

of whom won those states - my passion for voting rights outweighs this primary - believe you me. Had Hillary taken the Obama stand on voters, I would have jumped ship in a NY minute,

he can be reached?

Are you mad that the STATE PARTIES kept McAuliffe's rule when they voted on it in 2006?

Have you directed any anger towards McAuliffe or the states of Michigan and Florida who VOTED FOR this rule?

Dean is in the position of having to enforce a rule that he CANNOT CHANGE after it is voted in by the state parties.

Why isn't Terry McAuliffe on TV explaining this rule? He's the expert on it.

Keep Dean.

Even when they all threaten to hold their breath until they turn blue:

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

Even when they throw themselves on the floor, pounding their little fists, sobbing uncontollably:

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

this isn't hysterical, pumpkin. It's a straightforward poll with no bias toward anyone. you seem to have a little paranoia problem; there's help for that.

Your poll is as "straightforward" as a pretzel twist.

No one person is the Democratic Party and your desperate appeal reflects only your own valid assessment of your candidate's plight.

Though, admittedly, you are not alone on GD-P.

:nopity: :nopity:

which has to be the primary role of the DNC head. Many of the people brought in to revitalize the organization were inspired by him. Most will likely stay even if he were forced out, but many will be devastated that what they worked so hard to build was being destroyed. Long term those people became involved and will be involved, but we need everyone firing on all cylinders - and this is what could prevent that.

but a push by the people for change from Republican power and corruption. We may lose a lot after this fixed primary to negate their vote.

overwhelmingly positive re his chairmanship of the DNC, has changed with the partisanship that now prevails here.

All those states wanted was to have their say because they feared IA and NH would have the first and final says. The punishment did not fit the crime. And it will hurt us in the GE.

since TeamClinton couldn't push him out the way they tried to after Nov2006.

They are managing the perception game against Dean, knowing full well that Terry McAuliffe set this rule in place in 2004 and state parties voted to CONTINUE the rule in 2006.

The Michigan and Florida party people are cooperating with a certain group of party Dems to maneuver against Dean's leadership.

but everybody knew the rules going in.

If this is true they have to be changed. It is not democracy.

Primaries should all be on the same day. DA!!

If you aren't angry about Florida and Michigan, why not? This is stealing the election before it even happens. Two whole states have no representation. It against the Constitution.

With Edwards bowing out before the IL primary's in February, I have no vote either.

Look what the man has done for the party. You'd be stupid to think he should go.

When Hillary wraps up the nomination, I hope she sends Dean packing immediately.

by every measure in all the ST states except for TN. He's now within three on the new national Gallup poll. She's not assured of the nomination.

After all the losers who have been Chair during the late 90s and early 2000s we finally found a winner. Yeah, let's throw him away for getting majorities in both houses, governorships, and improving our standing in state legislatures. :eyes:

in the 2004 election. I'll always thank him for that. of course, many of our congressional dems promptly lost their spines again...

The area near their assess as they fell on them?

:)

but I supported Dean in 2004 and still do now, no matter how these delegates may effect my girl in this race! After all that Dean has done for us and the democratic party... I think it awful for people to bash him. He is doing the best he can! These states broke the rules! He isn't magic, he can't change what has happened. I think it bodes badly that voters are being disenfranchised, and wish to high heavens that the delegates would be seated in some other arrangement/compromise. (maybe they could come to an agreement and hold a SECOND primary in the state later on in March or May) Whatever happens, I do hope the voters are heard, but I am not going to be mad at Dean if this doesn't happen. It's not his fault. That is much akin to shooting the messenger. Sadly, I don't know who to be mad at. I think the primary system is broken and understand what the states were trying to do. I think they should make it fair, and each year randomly select different states to go first. That way, each state would eventually get a turn, and the perceived biased towards Iowa and NH demographics will be erased.

Some appreciation for him winning the Congress back for the Dems, isn't it. Fuck her.

a person of principle who is looking out for the country and not himself.

Near the election they will be hugging each other. Get real. It's all a show.

Don't you love it how some people think they live inside of Hillary's head????