LGBT Voters: Clinton, Obama, or ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_same-sex_marriage">One of these choices, especially if you have transferable job skills and foreign languages under your belt?

- Dave

I'm not sure what your asking?

We do - and we need to keep working to strengthen it, not give in to bullshit, sideways manipulation - like, for example, this poll.

The Bible-thumping bigots would benefit from a mass gay exodus, not the country - nor the people.

... if this even affects you personally?

- Dave

... a polite invitation to engage, and exit, stage right.

- Dave

Just leave it alone and try to stick to your topic - the poll, not other readers' sexuality.

... with the expectation that those would be the ones responding.

There is a concept known as "griefing" in cyberspace. I can provide you some links.

- Dave

...that is, if you weren't just casting about for new rationales for your baloney.

... we get it.

Thank you for expressing your views.

- Dave

... there are people who get the intent of the poll that would like to engage, and you're griefing.

- Dave

But I think Clinton is better for LGBT folks than Obama. :)

She refuses to get rid of DOMA except for a few parts...NOT ACCEPTABLE

What are the differences?

And non-GLBT's can't understand it. But that's ok. Whoever it is I'll vote for in the GE.

"Non-GLBT's can't understand it..." It's so true. I've given up on trying to explain it. And, if I try to explain the key reason why in this post, I know I'll get a flood of posts saying "they're all homophobes" or something. So why even bother.

:hug:

... but I'd suggest you give the President a heads-up that you're coming for dinner.

; )

- Dave

Yawn.

Just LET bigots try to force me out of the nation of my birth.

We're here to CHANGE the country for the better, not flee!

Bigots often find that LGBT people have a lot of courage... a lot more than anyone gives them credit for.

... in a culture that has successfully integrated equal rights, could actually be a tremendously productive and patriotic exercise.

No fleeing involved; information gathering, to come back and fight a more effective fight, grounded in an understanding of what has worked elsewhere.

- Dave

Despite the non-sequitur you offer, I'm curious - which culture do you think is it that has successfully integrated equal rights?

... the Netherlands (which come with the Carribean territories), and the Scandanavian countries.

- Dave

Most of all, I find it hard to accept that your premise was that gay people should emigrate and then return at all - you sorta left that out.

... boy, I sure hope all your candidates come out with immaculate first drafts to their positions.

- Dave

... with my mind, not yours, thank you very much.

- Dave

might help you avoid being seen as a deceptive troll.

... who is tired of riding at the back of the bus, and interested in what other members of the LGBT community have to say about the possibility of a period of time abroad, in light of the disappointing field of candidates left now.

- Dave

... quite clearly, that his thinking evolved, and he was given opportunities to explain his fuller meaning, though he was definitely attacked rabidly, like you're doing.

- Dave

... spent outside his or her home society, to gain a different perspective on what works to transform his home society.

You are quick to leap to conclusions, without civilly seeking - or accepting - clarification.

The only person's whose thoughts you understand in the moment are yours, absent questions and honest give-and-take.

- Dave

...just expatriating. Come on, you can't revise history this much and expect others to take you seriously.

If your OP was ill-stated as you claim, re-do it.

... have probably made it abundantly clear - as have the sub-thread titles - that the intent was not a permanent exodus.

Where two plausible meanings can be inferred (in this case, a "temporary," or "permanent" sojourn abroad), you might start by asking: "Um, do you mean to suggest that gays leave permanently, or temporarily?"

The edit window has passed.

Please consider this to be confirmation that I did not mean a permanent exodus.

- Dave

or comparing yourself to Gandhi, or suggesting how I might have objected to your self-admittedly flawed post.

Just live and learn and next time you will better avoid seeming so disingenuous by revisionist arguments about your intent.

... you have taught me many valuable lessons.

I can almost snatch the pea from your palm now.

- Dave

If so, then what business is it of yours if some LGBT community members say, "Eh, you know what, I wanna see how other places integrate this, so that I can be exposed to some new ideas, and re-imports some of the best ones back"?

If not your actual poll.

it implies to me

love it or leave it kind of mentality

good one

not
:eyes:

... of productively-spent time outside the society, with a triumphant return to transform it.

- Dave

... why not a sane and civil request for clarification?

Froth at the mouth much?

- Dave

they will be a hellava lot more friendly than the repubs

Whew - that's a relief.

gets in..

then they will do a reversal of the roman Colosseum spectacles and throw the lions to the christians...

they are slooooooooooooooooow learners and alot of people will get hurt in the meantime

I don't want to leave others behind.

On the other hand, if the choices are Obama/McCain I think the LGBT community should protest the election altogether. Some will argue that Obama's platform is LGBT supportive, but I don't believe he has any intention other than throwing us under the bus.

We'll see. If Obama wins and is the shitty, right-leaning president I expect him to be, I think many in the LGBT community will abandon the party for good in 2012 (those who haven't already.)

If Clinton wins, I think she might actually do something to contradict her husband's legacy, but it's pure speculation with no empirical evidence whatsoever on my part. She could triangulate against us (although I think it benefits her less than Obama since Republicans already think she's a wiccan communist...)

And I think we will be basically left out of an Obama administration. We won't have a big target on our backs, such as we would with a Republican in office. But, we won't have a seat at the table with Obama, either.

:puke:

... we have to look forward to with the other choice?

blech

- Dave

In Thailand you will find a completely tolerant population. They have already had 1 admitted gay prime minister and 1 in the closet.

I hope the genesis of the question was clear. I'm curious to see what others think about the benefit of some time spent abroad as an expat, in one of the many societies that are further along than we are on LGBT issues, vis-a-vis society at large.

- Dave

I understand that you will not agree with this but I think that Obama is not the Homophobe, or as friendly to homophobes that people think he is. I wish he took a stronger stand now but I think he sees that there is little upside now and alot more as President.
But I understand your caution. By the way I didn't see John as being that much ahead of Obama - Elizabeth yes.

... were lovely on this.

Twenty years, eh?

:rofl:

Must've been quite the culture shock when you got back, even if you were making frequent visits.

- Dave

when i left the word "mother" was not hyphenated.

Liddy was universely reviled as being against the constitution. When I got back he got a "first ammendment award" for among other things telling people that if they wanted to kill a federal officer they should shoot him in the larynx.

Police had come to regularly park a police car near the synagogue on Saturdays.

I could go on but it is like a foriegn country to me.

I still can't get over the hostility in here.


If I hadn't lived in Thailand I would have probably been right of Obama on LGBT issues.

... is a World War II edition of Anna and the King of Siam. I'd love to see the pictures you have of the temples.

- Dave

And, if I've stuck through staying here with 8 years of Bush, I guess I'm here 'til I die. (Unless I find myself in retirement unable to live in the U.S.---then it might be Mexico for me!)

... over Obama, with regard to LGBT issues?

- Dave

You have Obama committed to fighting for civil unions (the first step, folks), anti-discrimination, and repealing the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policies. But nevermind that, get on that magical ship to gay-topia where Donnie McClurkin exists as a mythic Devil-God.

Reminds me of the Back-to-Africa movement that people wanted instead of fighting to abolish slavery in antebellum times. Pretty sad.