so, Dem centrists - where are we in the Great Drive to Unity?

Kerry is moving toward the center, to no one's great surprise and to the DLC's great delight.

He's tying higher teacher pay to higher "standards", whatever that means, and he bowed out of voting on Negroponte. Meanwhile, our boys at the DLC pour salt in the wounds of those who supported Howard Dean, out of fear for their own hides.

We all feeling just dandy these days?

is our only hope. He has to go center because some of our most liberal people make the mainstream too nervous. get over it.

How far to the center, and for how long?

Maybe the mainstream needs a new vision.

Why court votes that are unable or unwilling to see any difference between Kerry and Bush*? I wouldn't know the first thing to say to them or do with them, and you never know what new excuse they'll make up for seceding again. Do I hand out leaflets to people talking to themselves on the bus?

most votes on the left aren't going away this year, if only because of the current danger.

So, how much further?

Get out of here for awhile, forget about worrying about the party this and the party that and get actual people to understand your cause. Because if you don't get enough actual people behind your cause, you won't get what you want. You'll just get more and more people upset with you as you sacrifice the issues they do know and care about for your set that you don't think the party cares about by trying to hold the party hostage to losing. Oh, and if you don't like who's donating to the Democrats, why not pony up a little bit yourself and try to get others to do the same. I'm sick of people complaining about the party and not realizing you have to participate in democracy a little bit more than just voting and complaining that there's no one to vote for. Like I don't even know what you're really complaining about here - why should the party care about it if you don't even make it that clear?

Get out of here for awhile

Nah, I like it here.

about worrying about the party this and the party that and get actual people to understand your cause. Because if you don't get enough actual people behind your cause, you won't get what you want.

I do this, when and where I can. I live in Georgia. I know plenty of folks who agree with "my cause", but I don't expect that my state is representative of what's possible nationwide.

You'll just get more and more people upset with you as you sacrifice the issues they do know and care about for your set that you don't think the party cares about by trying to hold the party hostage to losing.

Huh?

Oh, and if you don't like who's donating to the Democrats, why not pony up a little bit yourself and try to get others to do the same.

I do, but I currently make $18k/year teaching in a private school. I do what I can on the ground. I'll let you know when I can contribute more.

why should the party care about it if you don't even make it that clear?

You seemed to understand it pretty clearly earlier, or at least think you did.

Huh?

Don't act like you don't know what's at stake. Imagine what life would be like with more conservative Supreme Court justices or another war. There is a lot of difference between Kerry and Bush*.

You seemed to understand it pretty clearly earlier, or at least think you did.

Nah. I don't understand what's so important that it doesn't matter if Bush* wins. You talk about the party moving to the center but you don't say how or why it's even bad.

There is a lot of difference between Kerry and Bush*.

There is *a* difference between Kerry and Bush. I'll even give you the "a lot" on certain issues. I'm voting for Kerry anyway.

But "a lot" across the board? No.

You talk about the party moving to the center but you don't say how or why it's even bad.

I've talked about exactly that for years.

And I am with uly.

I was contrasting getting the support of the people within the party rather than threatening the leadership.

As you observe, most votes on the left are not going to go away this time around, because most on the left recognize the danger.

So a better question might be: are those on the left persevering in reasonable self-discipline aimed at getting the worst elements of reaction out of office? Are they willing to accept the tactical actions necessary to win the election, even if these are somewhat distasteful? Are they working on their fellows who waver, and trying to get them to see the importance of the occassion?

"Revolution is not a tea party."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

are those on the left persevering in reasonable self-discipline aimed at getting the worst elements of reaction out of office? Are they willing to accept the tactical actions necessary to win the election, even if these are somewhat distasteful? Are they working on their fellows who waver, and trying to get them to see the importance of the occassion?

Speaking only for myself, "yes", "it depends" and "I prefer to let progressives come to their own conclusions".

Now, how much further centerward (rightward, relatively) must we expect the campaign and the party to go?

That's why we don't know. If you do a good job at getting a message and a plan out, then maybe you'll pull it your way. Think about how gay & lesbian activists have been able to get a lot done and put out pretty clear messages despite being a small group of people.

they're more interested in their own wounds from the primaries, namely the total irrelevance of Lieberman.

* wants to eliminate public education.

when we talk about an insufficient difference.

Sure, Kerry wants to increase teacher pay - by a less-than-sufficient amount in troubled areas and tied to "higher standards" in others. Some of us thought that teachers should be paid more for what they already do.

Bush is not the benchmark.

Kerry's "less-than-sufficient" pay raises are not "sufficiently different" from the extreme right's plan to eliminate public education?

I truly cannot wrap my mind around this logic.

There is a difference. Is it sufficient to actually do anything about the state of education in America? No.

Again, Bush is not the benchmark.

He gave those who wanted something for nothing,nothing for something.

Where are we with the whole unity thing?

Centrists and Moderates and DLCers, oh MY!!

And only those who bash Kerry at every opportunity for being too centrist, too DLC, too moderate, too Bush-lite, etc. are REAL liberals, I suppose. George McGovern, Michael Moore, Maxine Waters, Mario Cuomo, Charlie Rangel, Hillary Clinton, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and all the other people I admire can't be Left enough if they support John Kerry, a man whose Senate record has him fending off charges that he's a Massachussetts Liberal.

So vote for somebody else if you actually believe there's no difference or if the research to figure out the differences is just too difficult. Why keep posting these things? What does it accomplish? What does it achieve? What's the good in it? Why do it?

It's a DLC-bashing thread.

Bashbashbashbashbash.