Two groups of Democrats that, unfortunately, * will gain in

I know we like to say that it's impossible for former Gore voters to go for * in 2004, but, unfortunately, these are two groups that I think will head in that direction:

1. Dixiecrats-An ever shrinking number of people, they either refuse to endorse Kerry, or become like Zell Miller.

2. Jewish voters who put forgien policy in Israel above other issues:
Ed Koch, and a number of Jewish voters who are normally Democratic on just about every issue, are in *'s pocket because of Israel. Many of them are die-heart Liberals on everything else though. However, they are NOT a majority of Jewish voters, and most Jews will still vote for Kerry.

can anyone be moved by this miserable failure?

If *'s poll numbers keep dropping, then I would assume many of them wouldn't vote and stay home, maybe even some would come back to Kerry. However, I think these groups will be further heading Repug regardless of the outcome of this election.

Except maybe the orthodox whom we lost long ago.

Kerry doesn't alienate pro-Israel Jews, not really. And actually, quite a few of us don't think Bush has done Israel any favors.

And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Clark's on the ticket, it will go a long way toward keeping the Jewish vote. Besides the obvious help of his Jewish roots and family, he's always been very pro-Israel (without being perceived as anti-Muslim), and as a military man, understands and can speak to their defense needs.

Lots of people assume Lieberman was gonna rake in the Florida Jewish vote, but really, Clark had made major in-roads and was gaining. He had been a darling the JCC/Brotherhood/etc lecture circuit long before he ran for president.

Fwiw, in my circle of Jewish friends, we were pretty evenly divided between Kerry, Dean, and Clark. Not ONE Repub. But I'll grant you mid-western Jews are probably not typical.

We will never stop supporting Israel no matter who is president but only a Repub will want to make their kids pray to Jesus.

It depends on how more nuts Sharon can go...

(NOT anti-Israel... anti terrorist-in-elected-official's-clothing)

could likely be counted on one hand. I'm thinking that far fewer Jewish voters will go for bush in 2004, than went for Buchanan in 2000.

It's certainly possible to see Bush siphoning off some Jewish votes due to his aggressively pro-Likud (or, in the popular imagination, "pro-Israel") stance.

I personally agree that his simple-minded, meatheaded, warmongering approach really hasn't helped Israel any more than it's made the USA safe from terror, and I'm sure that plenty of American Jews realize that too.

I think Dixiecrats were already gone by the time Gore ran in 2000.

He didn't win his home state.

I was talking about Jewish voters, not Dixiecrats.

I was responding to the thread starter.

:)

I agree that the pro-Sharon wingnut Jews are already in Bush's camp.

We're full of Independents.
What killed Gore in his homestate was the whisper campaign, which Rove used to defeat McCain in South Carolina. There is not a shred of actual proof, but the hunters here honestly believed that Gore would take their guns.
Now - and you just have to know the South to understand this - the hunters are appalled by Bush. The reason? The environment is SUCKING. A lot of Southern hunters aren't really as they're depicted. Men and boys (and sometimes us girls) go "hunting" as more of a bonding method and a macho nature walk. They despise people baiting animals and truly love the outdoors - that's why, when they're walking through pollution up to their oranges, they're getting ticked at Bush.
It's an untapped phenom.
Kerry's a hunter - so is Clark (my obvious choice for Veep). I think the two should do some duck hunts in TN this year, point out the flaws with the environment, hang out and talk gun control mano-e-mano.

There are so many who are worried that the Dems will take their guns, and that photo op with the Feinstein bunch really didn't help.

n/t

Southern Dem's are certainly not shrinking they have simply leaned toward the GOP on many cultural issues while economically they are populists. Bush has worked hard to come across as the embodiment of southern values and attitudes and that is why he will do very well for the same reason that native son Clinton did well in the south and Carter before him, he seems southern and will go up against a candidate in Kerry who seems even less southern than Gore in attitudes and style.

Don't worry about Jewish voters Israel will be safe either way. Hollings was crass but about right, the United States policy towards Israel is largely dictated by the electoral needs to maintain either the support of or avoid the wrath of Jewish voters. Israel will be even safer under a Democratic President than it should be under a GOP prez, simply because Democrats rely on Jewish voters in NY, CA and FL in order to win. But that said without Lieberman on the ticket and with the "war on terror" i think a very mild swing to the GOP is very possible but nothing substantial or worth worrying about.

Koch voted for Reagan too.

Dixie is already solid red. If it tilts by another 3%, nothing changes.

Jewish voters could only conceivably be swing in one state, Florida. And Florida is almost certainly going red for a variety of reasons, savory and un-.

For that matter, American Jews are much less hawklike than the PNAC Jews, so the break in Dem Jewish ranks is going to be far less than one might think.