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True_Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:38 PM
Original message
Florida: Eroding: Bush's Cuban Support
May 31 issue - President George W. Bush may have to do without Republicans like Fernando Amandi. A Miami Cuban-American and retired corporate executive who voted for Bush in 2000, he has become disenchanted with the administration, particularly with its handling of policy toward Cuba and Latin America. Bush "talked a good game" against Fidel Castro, says Amandi, "but I didn't see much follow-through." Now Amandi is backing Sen. John Kerry, raising cash (more than $100,000 so far as a vice chair of Kerry's national finance committee) and offering advice on policy. Amandi says: "I've been impressed by much more substantial vision."

He's not alone. Bush's support among Cuban-Americans in south Florida—about 80 percent of whom backed him in 2000—shows signs of eroding. A March Florida International University poll, for instance, showed that only 56 percent of the state's Cuban-Americans planned to vote for Bush, with 25 percent undecided. While the vast majority will almost certainly back Bush in November, even a shift of 5 percent could tip the balance if Florida is a close race.
more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5040192/site/newsweek/
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. why would cubans vote for bush
Edited on Sun May-30-04 11:49 PM by 28erl
He doesn't care about anyone but white rich KKK type people or corporate thugs.

I must be missing something. I don't understand the mentality of any immigrant voting for Bush.

He also has made it more difficult for these people to go visit relatives or help them out. Why oh why would they vote for this dictator if they didn't like the dictator they had....

Maybe that is the problem with some of these immigrants...they are so used to dictators. the middle easterns who vote for Bush it is the same.... maybe they just like dictators......
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Cuban expatriats in Miami are generally very conservative.
I'm talking about the Cubans who were wealthy land-owners before Castro took over. They want the United States to invade Cuba and restore their property, which was lost when Castro kicked them all out in 1960. As Catholics, most of them are social conservatives as well.

Republican candidates can usually count on the Cuban vote in southern Florida. The fact that many of them are disappointed in the Chimp says a lot about how badly he has screwed up.
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. No, they're very anti-Castro
And since the Bay of Pigs debacle, and the GOP's (often dubious) image of being more anti-Communist, the Republicans have gotten the biggest chunk of the Cuban vote. Also, Republican Cubans are VERY well organized in what is already a very politically active ethnic group. But the Bay of Pigs is fading, as a newer generation of Cuban-Americans is coming about, including new, Democratic political leaders.

There's nothing in the Cuban-American psyche making them sympathetic to, say, lassiez-faire economics or pre-emptive war. Conservatism is the wrong word for what is political inertia fossilized by Fidel.

It's Castro. Despite all the claptrap DUers spread about it being just wealthy landowners--it's amazing how many millions of wealthy landowning Cubans South Florida manages to contain!--the fact is that Castro is rightly hated for what he has done. It's personal, and it's irrational, and unfortunately the Republicans are benefitting from it.

But even hatred fades, especially in the face of incompetence. Bush is accelerating the decline in GOP party-ID among Cuban-Americans. Once Castro goes, too, we'll see if we can't make Cubans a swing vote, or even a reliable Democratic constituencyu.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Don't think we need to wait until Castro is gone
It has been over 40 years and time has a way of making things fade away. Especially, when those that were directly connected to it are dying off.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
36. The CANF Cubans are also very anti-Semitic
Think of the price that will be exacted from a Democratic Administration in exchange for the votes of the Cuban exiles. How far are you willing to go in selling your souls to Satan in return for some Fascist votes from a group of Bacardi funded racist rightwingers.

Will you plant your lips on the ass of a terrorist like Orlando Bosch just to get him to vote against Bush? I won't, and neither should any self-respecting liberal!
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. oh Now that makes sense..... thanks
Edited on Mon May-31-04 12:02 AM by 28erl
It appears the rich are all repubs... no matter where they live...interesting....

yet there are rich people with democratic hearts....paul neuman
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dryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
43. It goes way back
To the Bay of Pigs. A lot of Cuban-Americans felt the Kennedy Administration betrayed them.
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here is the what you get when they look into the mirror.
Mouse rollover msgop jeb/junior pic
http://darkerxdarker.tripod.com/
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. if bush keeps his
policy unchanged he will loose alot of votes. many people hate castro but the people send money and goods back to cuba in the millions of dollars to their relatives and bush is putting a stop to that. i think all flights to cuba are now being stopped..yes george is going to loose alot of votes.
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-04 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. My Cuban-American compatriots are coming to their senses.
Hopefully this will help dispel some of the mindless, stupid, and plainly bigoted Cuban-bashing that some DUers so enjoy.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Castro Is a Terrorist!
The Bush administration is now saying that we are in imminent danger from a mushroom cloud within 45 minutes coming from Cuba. Rummy and Powell confirm that WMD's exist. Tenet says Castro obtained uranium from Africa. Oh, I forgot, Cuba does not have oil deposits...but then there is off shore drilling possibilities. When we see Halliburton and Bectel execs in heat at Key West cities, we'll know that it's time to preliminary strike before they (Castro) destroys America and the world. Sarcasm off.
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. We don't bash Cubans...

....but the Cuban-American population may be fair game for "bashing". The perception is that they have put their own parochial interests before that of the greater nation.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
35. Thank you...
but you are too kind in your use of "perception"
Great post :)
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
37. I don't like bashing of
any ethnic or minority group because of the behavior of some in the exile community.

If I remember correctly, Clinton did win the Cuban vote in FL in '96. Gore was hurt largely by the way the Elian thing was carried out.

I've heard that many of second generation Cuban Americans are more interested in the same things most Americans care about -- jobs, health care (very important) and education. Even their views on America's Cuba policy are changing. I heard they were interested in such things as being able to send some money to families, and being able to visit as well.

The policies really make very little sense considering we view trade with China as vital, though their policies are just as brutal as Cuba's. Castro is a thug, but it's about damn time Washington realizes that the policies tha have been in place for the past 8 presidents hasn't been workin.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. Bush's Cuba moves stir backlash
Edited on Mon May-31-04 02:38 AM by JudiLyn

Posted on Mon, May. 31, 2004

POLITICS AND CUBA


Bush's Cuba moves stir backlash

President Bush seeks to shore up his Cuba credentials by getting tough on Fidel Castro, but some Cuban Americans with family members on the island are not happy about it.

BY LESLEY CLARK

lclark@herald.com


U.S. Rep. Lincoln Díaz-Balart hailed President Bush as the ''best friend'' of Cuban exiles when the White House this month touted its election-year strategy to crack down on Fidel Castro.

Parts of the plan -- a boost in aid to dissidents on the island and a renewed effort to broadcast Cuban government-jammed Radio and TV Marti -- met with broad acclaim from Cuban Americans.

But Bush's nod to the hard-liners in the exile community -- a further restriction on travel to the island and a clamp-down on those who can receive cash assistance from U.S. relatives -- has touched off an emotionally charged backlash among Cuban Americans with family members still in Cuba and among some exiles who believe that change can come only from within the island.
(snip)

The new restrictions provide clear evidence that despite some polls that show increasing numbers of Cuban Americans steadily moving away from hard-line positions, the administration has the ear of the ``exilio historico'' -- the first wave of Cuban exiles who retain a tight grip on South Florida's Cuban-American political infrastructure and influential Spanish radio.
(snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8801306.htm
On edit: the Miami Herald requires your free registration



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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Hi JudiLyn. I've always said that the current gen of Cuban migrants..
I've always said that the current gen of Cuban migrants are not the same as the generation that supported Batista.



Most of the Miamicuban community feels that the extremism and support for the embargo and sanctions is hindering the average Cuban in Cuba. They know this because, as pointed out in numerous earlier threads, Cuban-Americans can go to Cuba.

Understand that most of the Cuban immigrants that have come to the US have come here for the same reasons that immigrants from all over the Caribbean and Latin Americas come to the US.. jobs. Jobs that help them earn enough money to send some back to their family in their homeland. The majority of Cuban immigrants don't have an all consuming hatred of Fidel Castro, and the USA offers Cubans many avenues and a wealth of exclusive perks for immigrating here.. plus they can travel back to their homeland and take or send money.. just like almost all other immigrants do.

The reasoning for maintaining the extremist positions against Castro is for political gain, at the expense of the ignorant taxpayers who are brainwashed into thinking that Cubans are "fleeing" Castro, instead of understanding the actual Cuban-American community's immigration experience.

Consider this.. If there were to be no Castro, then there would be no VERY profitable taxpayer funded anti Castro foundations and programs. If there were to be no Castro, who the F would Ileana Ros and the Diaz Balart brothers run against? They need Castro. Everything these so called "anti Castro" factions do, from taunts to threats of war to sanctions to embargoes, only unites the Cuban people behind their fearless and successful leader. This is what the "anti Castro" politicians and "free Cuba" foundations need - in order to continue to profiteer on the backs of the US taxpayers.

These hard core anti Castro factions (mainly the ex Cuban Batista oligarchy and their offspring) have a LONG history of violence and intimidation against anyone who dares not toe the virulent anti Castro line. This violence and intimidation against anyone who dares not toe the virulent anti Castro line includes murder and assassinations, fire bombings and car bombings.

The violence and intimidation has done a good job at muting the more rational and reasoned voices in the Cuban-American community in Miami, but, there are a few very brave people and a few small pro-normalization groups in Miami daring enough to speak for the majority & take on the intransigent and violent anti Castro profiteers. They get little, if any, media attention in the USA.


Its about time that they do get the attention of the Democratic Party!!



End the Cuban Adjustment Act now!
End the Helms-Burton law now!
End the extremist US gov sanctions on our right to travel unfettered now!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Excellent post, Mika! Interesting to consider the anti-Castro industry
in South Florida. Where WOULD the Diaz-Balarts and Ros-Lehtinen, in fact all the high-ranking Miami-Dade Republicans be without the enthusiastic use of a bogey-man? They'd all be selling Cuban sandwiches in Little Havana, no doubt!

I also have noticed that as Bush got increasingly belligerent, even Joe Garcia of the Cuban American National Foundation started backing away.......... and he has been the loudest, most truculent spokesman they could ever want. It seems Bush is weirding them out!
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Sadly, its not just the repugs
"n fact all the high-ranking Miami-Dade Republicans be without the enthusiastic use of a bogey-man?"


I think you missed my point :hi:

Point is, that fleecing the taxpayer for "anti castro" activities is a bipartisan affair.

Campaigning "anti Castro" in Floriduh is a prerequisite. Bob Graham, Bill Nelson, Dante Fascell, Janet Reno, Buddy McKay, Lawton Chiles, Betty Castor are all excellent examples of Florida Dem panderers to the "anti Castro" Miamicubano maffia extremists. There's many more.


Its time to purge the Dem party of these extremists and terrorist sympathizers.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
50. If the Cubans don't think Bush is tough enough on Cuba
a dem can never make them happy. Grow up.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. Not true. Helms-Burton was signed by Clinton
Edited on Wed Jun-02-04 09:09 AM by Mika
As well as the Libertad Act and the 50 mile security zone around Fla. Clinton (on his last day in office) also released, from an escrow account, money owed to Cuba by US companies, which cannot pay due to the US Trading with the Enemy law (Cuba was classified as an 'enemy state') to families claiming damages by the Cuban government. Clinton released some of Cuba's money $68,000,000 to four families in Miami.

Clinton's admin also created the inane 'wet foot/ dry foot' policy for Cubans only. (Meaning that Cubans who touch US soil can stay - no matter who they are, no matter how they get here, no matter if they failed a criminal background check for a legal immigration visa from the US.)

Clinton's admin poured millins of our tax dollars into radio and TV Marti (pure pork barrel politics for the Miami "exile" community) - which has near zero listenership in Cuba.

Clinton's admin was the best admin for the hard line "exile" politics in Miami.

That's why hard line CANF founder Jorge Mas Canosa was a Clinton fundraiser for his second term run.


CANF founder and Clinton fundraiser Jorge Mas Canosa & Bill Clinton

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DEMVET-USMC Donating Member (789 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. Kerry will win Florida and many other States once in doubt.
America has had four years of unrestrained GOP policy and Bush is out the door. ...Oscar
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. Castro's ultimate death
and the sickliness of communism are again a gift to Kerry who simply has to strongly support a humane transition, not the bloody mess Bush would create to hand over to selected elite little Battistas. Above all, with a sea change imminent, they need a real president to manage peacefully and competently the difficult years ahead.

This is one of things that Cubans might thank 911 for deflecting Bush from the necessity of taking on Cuba. Now, I hope, it is too late for more needless deaths and suffering. Haiti was a terrible model for what must transpire in Cuba under Bush.
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Sickliness of communism??


Is that worse than the sickliness of capitalism?
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Anout the same as the sickliness of the Bush regime.
Did you try both?
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. No way. Under threat Cuba increased health care and edu
Edited on Mon May-31-04 02:30 PM by Mika
Cuba represents the successful anti model of IMF/US policies

http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/learn.htm
It also showed that Havana has actually improved its performance in both areas despite the continuation of the US trade embargo against it, and the end of Soviet aid and subsidies for the Caribbean island more than ten years ago.

“Cuba has done a great job on education and health,” Wolfensohn told reporters at the conclusion of the annual spring meetings of the Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF). “They have done a good job, and it does not embarrass me to admit it.”

His remarks reflect a growing appreciation in the Bank for Cuba’s social record, despite recognition that Havana’s economic policies are virtually the antithesis of the “Washington Consensus”, the neo-liberal orthodoxy that has dominated the Bank’s policy advice and its controversial structural adjustment programmes (SAPs) for most of the last 20 years.

Some senior Bank officers, however, go so far as to suggest that other developing countries should take a very close look at Cuba’s performance.

“It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.


Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong.



The US can't compete with the dedication and efficiency of Cubans and their system.

One can see how the war on terra has allowed an excuse for Bush Crime Inc to drain the US coffers of money for ed and health care (of course over 40,000,000 Americans have no health care ins), but yet Cuba has elevated and improved its infrastructure ... bettering the stats of most nations.



At the same time, however, its record of social achievement has not only been sustained; it’s been enhanced, according to the WDI.

It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990.  That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.




Working Americans dream of an administration that would serve the needs of all of its constituants the way the Cuban government does.


Viva Cuba!
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. if communism is so sickly, let it die an natural death
as we did in the 1990s in the former USSR and Eastern Europe. If Reagan had anthing to do with that it was his "backpack" diplomacy that turned the tide, not his drunk-on-defense spending.

A small band of exiles have hijacked our foreign policy because of the electoral system which is a relic from slavery.

If Bush had won the popular vote and Gore the electoral vote, supporting the electoral college would now be unpatriotic and it would join segregation on the trash heap of history.

Times like this I wish the Dems had some shrill bullies like those the GOP produces in large numbers. Instead we have Lieberman, who you may remember defeated Lowell Weicker one of the last decent republicans. Weicker favored normalizing relations with Cuba and Holy Joe pandered to the Cuban/anti communist vote to get elected.

You'd think we would learn that exiles often have their own agendas that are not always in the best interests of the US. Exhibit 2: Chalabi.

The Cuban community was also pissed at Janet Reno for uniting a small child with his father. (Egads! The cruelty! Wasn't that one of the oddest pages in history?) Some may have remembered that in 2000 although it seems to me they would do well to hope the whole world forgets it.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. #1- Janet Reno didn't return Elian. The 11th Circuit court did.
#2 - The Dem party has been the major panderer party to the extremist elements of the Cuban-American "exile" community

charts from opensecrets.org



____


CANF founder and Clinton fundraiser Jorge Mas Canosa & Bill Clinton
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
38. Cuban opposition groups in Cuba don't want US meddling in Cuba
The last thing they want is for Cuba to become another "liberated" American trophy, like Panama, Grenada, or Iraq.

Cuban history is the history of a people being raped and pillaged by the Colossus to their North. There hasn't been any love between Cuban patriots and a country that imposed the Platt Amendment to the first Cuban Constitution giving carte blanche to the US to do as it pleased in Cuba, and that still controls Cuban soil in Guantanamo.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. Miami Cubans favor Pubs because of Bay of Pigs and the perception that
Kennedy betrayed them. However, it was really the CIA which betrayed them by promising something (U.S. military support) which it could not deliver. Nixon undoubtably would have done the same thing, but Kennedy and the Democrats took the hit because he was president. The Miami Cubans have never forgiven the Democrats.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. You really don't know what you are talking about (see post #16)
Edited on Mon May-31-04 01:16 PM by Mika
Just how long will it take DUers to understand that the Dem party is an equal partner in the pandering to the "exiles" department: :shrug:

Many hard line Miamicubanos are Democrats. The current president and top echelon of the CANF are registered Dems.

Former head of the CANF, Jorge Mas Canosa, was a Dem and a Clinton fundraiser.

Just look at the opensecrets.org charts posted above.

Its the Dem party that needs to be purged of the right winger panderers.
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dryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
44. Which one?
Are you talking about the father or the son? The father died a few years ago.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Both
Both father and son have the same name. Dad died Nov 1997. The son picked up where dad left off.

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?city=Miami&st=FL&last=Mas&first=Jorge
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
21. If Bush loses 10 points among Cubans, he's doomed.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #21
51. Jeb is purging blacks again
Florida is unwinnable anyway if this happens. Is Kerry griping about this.

Now read the original article. The pro-Kerry Cuban is bitching because Bush isn't right wing enough. How can Kerry make this person happy, other than promising a fucking invasion or nuking Havana?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. The Cathollic Church is protesting Bush's plans for Cuba
Date: 2004-05-30

Moves by U.S. and Cuba May Hurt the Poor

Cuban Prelates Foresee Fallout of Tougher Embargo

HAVANA, MAY 30, 2004 (Zenit.org).- The toughening of the U.S. embargo against Cuba and the latter's response -- an increase in prices -- will harm poor families above all, says the island nation's bishops.

Last Wednesday, the Permanent Committee of the Cuban bishops' conference, made up of five of the island's 13 prelates, published a note expressing "the disconcert and anguish that these events have generated in our people."

"Cuban families, which constitute a place of reconciliation and dialogue in the midst of our reality, are especially harmed, as to the difficulties and burdens known by all are added new privations and burdens that worsen their already anguished situation as well as the separation of those who live in Cuba and in the United States," the prelates stated.
(snip/...)

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=54485
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
25. Cuba celebrates arrival of one million visitors to island this year
Cuba celebrates arrival of one million visitors to island this year


Canadian Press


Monday, May 31, 2004


HAVANA (AP) - Cuba is celebrating the arrival of the one millionth visitor to the island this year and predicts it will reach its annual goal of a record two million tourists by year's end.

The Communist party daily Granma reported Monday that through the end of May, Cuba saw an 11.8 per cent increase in visitors compared with the same period in 2003.

Cuba, along with many other Caribbean countries, was hard hit by a dramatic drop in visits as many people opted not to travel by air after the September 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States.

But visits to Cuba have slowly increased since. About 1.9 million people now visit Cuba annually.
(snip/...)

http://www.canada.com/travel/story.html?id=1C45BDA2-16BD-48D1-AF56-F5E07BE08975
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Good news.
Edited on Mon May-31-04 05:11 PM by Mika
Now, if only Americans weren't travel banned by our own government then Cuba would doing quite a lot better. So would we.

Let's hope that Kerry opts to drop this outdated sanction on Americans and Cuba.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
28. Not late breaking news, first posted May 23rd
Moving this discussion to GD Campaign 2004
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Lefty Pragmatist Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
29. Cubans are anti-Castro *and* conservative
Edited on Mon May-31-04 06:08 PM by Lefty Pragmatist
They're Exhibit A in the entrepeneur display cabinet. We aren't going to win over the Cubans.

But we ought to be able to pull a larger black vote and a more, um, attentive Jewish vote after those groups were rooked by Bush in 2000.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Why don't you check your facts before spouting off
Try actually reading some of the posted links and looking at post #16 which disproves your "point".
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Lefty Pragmatist Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
48. Wrong
Post # 16 talks about Cubans nationwide, Cubans in Florida are disproportionately Republican.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Where do you think the majority of Cuban-Americans live?
FYI, The vast majority of Cuban-Americans live in Florida.

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Not so.
My 'in-laws' (Cuban_Liberal's family) are vehemently anti-Castro, but very moderate to liberal in most other regards; they are not at all unusual in the Cuban-American community.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
45. We got the highest jewish vote since 64 in 2000
I don't see how either that vote got "rooked" or how we're likely to improve apon it when so much of the European left and American far left are becoming so effectively anti-semitic through so much of their ignorance-driven anti-zionism. We're on the defensive with the jewish vote this time.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #45
52. It is antisettlements, not antizionism
and the outrage over the settlements is 100% justified. Only 30% of the Jews are pro-Sharon or pro-settlements and I don't want to pander to them anymore than I want to pander to pro=lifers. The blacks are really the ones that got screwed the worst in Florida the last time around and they are being screwed again.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. I would consider getting into an argument over Israel/Pallestinian issues
if 1: It wouldn't completely derail from what this post is dealing with and 2: You haven't made a habit about lying about me.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. Pardon me, do ya think you can argue I/P elsewhere?
Please, don't hijack this discussion which will get this thread locked.

Please, start another thread for this.

Thanks. :hi:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
31. Washington's squeeze on Cuba alienating friends
Washington's squeeze on Cuba alienating friends

David Jessop
Sunday, May 30, 2004



For much of the past few weeks, the attention of the world has been focused on the ever-darkening clouds over Iraq. This has largely obscured news that the US Administration has decided to further increase its pressure on Cuba.

On May 20, the US president, George Bush, announced new measures aimed at trying to tighten the 44 year-old US trade embargo with the aim of forcing 'rapid and peaceful change' in Cuba.

The 'Initiative for a New Cuba' seeks to have the US determine the basis on which Cuba undertakes political and economic reform, conducts elections, opens its economy and ends political discrimination. In return for Cuba adopting US policy, President Bush suggested that the US will ease its ban on trade and travel between the United States and Cuba.

There can be few other US policy failures so long-lived as that relating to Cuba. Nevertheless and despite the obvious lack of success, US administrations, concerned about political funding and votes in South Florida and New Jersey, have continued to pursue an approach that has been widely discredited.
(snip/...)

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/html/20040530T050000-0500_60541_OBS_WASHINGTON_S_SQUEEZE_ON_CUBA_ALIENATING_FRIENDS.asp

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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Not even my right wing Cuban-American friends like *'s recent moves..
.. although their intentions and sympathies are different than mine they still, by and large, believe that its time to let old grudges go.

Thanks for posting that David Jessop story.
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
39. Screw 'em
I wouldn't be going out of my way to woo these people. The only reason some of them are having second thoughts about W* is because they see him as not quite anti-Castro enough for their taste. You can talk about the economy, the war in Iraq, energy, or whatever, but the truth is, they really don't give half a shit about the USA, as long as we continue sticking it in Fidel Castro really farking hard. I wouldn't bother trying to go out of my way pandering to them.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. No, screw those who think all Cuban-Americans are alike
" You can talk about the economy, the war in Iraq, energy, or whatever, but the truth is, they really don't give half a shit about the USA, as long as we continue sticking it in Fidel Castro really farking hard. "

"They" Are with us or agin us. Right?

Great Bushian logic. :crazy:

Poll: Cuban-Americans focus is local
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/6269237.htm
The majority of Cuban Americans living in Miami-Dade County are more concerned with improving their lives in the United States than with issues in Cuba, according to a recent poll commissioned by a national Hispanic voter-registration group.

Overall, 62 percent of the 600 Cuban Americans polled said that spending time and money improving their quality of life in this country was more important than working to remove the regime of Cuban President Fidel Castro.

The group that was most likely to focus on local concerns over international ones comprised those who were children -- or not yet born -- when Castro took power in 1959. Seventy-two percent of those 45 and younger voiced that opinion.

''The younger generation, I think, is looking forward to things, while the elderly are still looking back,'' said Alvaro Fernandez, Florida director of the Southwest Voter Registration Education Project, a nonpartisan group that commissioned the poll through its research arm, the William C. Velazquez Institute.

''They've put down roots, they're raising families, and they care about things like education,'' Fernandez said.



____



"I wouldn't bother trying to go out of my way pandering to them."

Don't bother researching the subject either.

Its better to let Bush win. Right?


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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #40
53. The original article focuses on a right wing cuban
who is pissed because Bush isn't right wing enough. What are we going to have give the devil to get his vote?
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. True. US media ignore the moderate majority. They've been threatened
Edited on Mon Jun-07-04 02:58 PM by Skinner
The Miamicuban rightwingnuts get the press. They have silenced the majority thru decades of firebombings, car bombings, murder and assassinations.

Here's a short list of Miamicuban "exile" terrorism IN THE USA..

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/2000-04-20/mullin.html

1968 From MacArthur Causeway, pediatrician Orlando Bosch fires bazooka at a Polish freighter. (City of Miami later declares "Orlando Bosch Day." Federal agents will jail him in 1988.)

1972 Julio Iglesias, performing at a local nightclub, says he wouldn't mind "singing in front of Cubans." Audience erupts in anger. Singer requires police escort. Most radio stations drop Iglesias from playlists. One that doesn't, Radio Alegre, receives bomb threats.

1974 Exile leader José Elias de la Torriente murdered in his Coral Gables home after failing to carry out a planned invasion of Cuba.

1974 Bomb blast guts the office of Spanish-language magazine Replica.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT




These terrorists commiting domestic terrorism are our terrorists, so they're not terrorists. :shrug:
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Mika
Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
news source.

Thank you.

DU Moderator
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
41. We need to help Alex Penelas get the senate nomination
he will garentee a boost for Kerry by communicating his message to both the Cuban and hispanic community in Florida. The argument that he wouldn't help Kerry among all hispanics in FL is bogus. Virtually all possters think Bill Richarson, a half Mexian would help Kerry as his vp among Florida hispanics, but a Cuban senate candidate isn't going to help among Cubans, Puerto Ricans, hatians and the rest?
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dryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-04 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
59. Absolutely not
You mean like he "helped" Gore win the election in 2000. No. and hell no.
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Kikosexy2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
42. Well Jeb...
will go to plan B and hijack the votes again! He probably has Katherine Harris on speed dial!
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
46. Younger Cubans
seem to no longer have the we hate Democrats becaue of the Bay of Pigs syndrome. Add to this the tendency of the young to mostly oppose their parents political leanings, and there you go.

Most of the generation following mine (I was in my early to late teens in the 60's) went straight to opposing their parents support of the Democratic Party, and went Republican as the yuppie generation grew to maturity. This of course resulted in 12 years of Reagan and Bush I. I lived in South Florida for 25 years, and most of the younger Cubans I knew did a radical flip flop on their parents generation and went Democrat. Which is what the demographics of Cuban voters in South FLorida are showing.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
56. Florida in play then
Any inroads into INCREASING the Gore margin substantially PLUS removal of some of the old frauds and thwarting some of the touchscreen machines PLUS doing real exit polls to counter lies means that Florida could well go democratic- maybe even if those three are only tackled imperfectly.

You have to scare some of the little frauds who committed mom and pop vote stealing and roll back vote tampering. REAL polls have to be loud and public to dispel the "myth". It looks doable but messy, especially since as of now the Bushes HAVE to cheat bigtime.

Come on. If they must cheat someone can be watching this time? An opportunity to jail them even if they lose.
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